CBI Rear Bumper 'Standard' Full Swing Arm "Death Wobble" - Chime In

[MStudt]

He is in direct communication. Much better than a forum tag.

Maybe you missed a couple posts? Like this one?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but isn't that what I'm doing? By exposing the issue and making a case about it, the issue as a whole becomes known. You don't go to court empty handed, you go with pure 100% proven evidence. So, before I go to the "court" I'd like to make sure I have my evidence. We know the problem exists, whether it be CBI's platform or any other metal fabricator's platform. The point is, how many are affected by it and will there will be a fix for it when everything has came together. No one ever got anything done by sitting in their lazy boy. Other customers may be fine with the issue or just not care enough that it's a problem for them. Therefor, never saying a thing about it. For me, it's been a problem for a long time but it's been at the bottom of the list. It's not at the bottom anymore.

Can we get back to the main purpose of this thread?

My point was that it'd be nice to see CBI in here explaining this issue. Hearing it from, and then from someone else is like playing the game "telephone". Nothing ever comes out the same as it started. No offense, but having an open line of communication with the manufacture is a lot better than the end user relaying a message. Not saying that you don't know what you're talking about, but the manufacture is going to know a lot more about their product than you will. I think it's great that you started this thread to help everyone, and to help try to remedy the situation. But, hearing from the manufacture in this thread would say a lot about them.

Oh, I've never seen a obese person out running 6 minutes and gaining weight. Usually they get that done by sitting in the lazy boy.

 

[rideexileex]

My guess is that it's the inherent design of the body on frame. I don't have the full blown mechanical engineer background, so please correct me if you do, but this is my assumption:

Having read the article on the Sonoran Steel website, the obvious difference to point out between the 4runner and the taco is that the "cab" of the 4runner is the whole vehicle, where as on the taco the bed is disconnected from the cab and separate. My only worry, if any, with the use of the hard mounts is that the twisting in the frame will now be transmitted to the cab itself, and possibly over time, this will induce fatigue into the cab metal/structure. I'm not sure what effects this will have, as again, I'm an electrical background rather than mechanical, but possibly micro cracks, etc - who knows.

Adding those mounts will obviously provide more bracing to the bumper, but I'm guessing another reason might be just in the frame strength itself, and the load of the bumper+tire+crap being so cantilevered out on the end of the frame. Perhaps a better fix would be frame bracing.

Maybe another test would be the spare tire carriers that are hitch mounted, and see if the result is similar? And to state the obvious, factory rear bumpers on our rigs were body mounted, not frame mounted, which would hide the body-bumper contact problem the after market bumpers encounter.

Food for thought

 

[rideexileex]

PS - I get some very minimal shake on my home built bumper, but nothing like that... Is the bumper gap moving around as you shake the tire in the video, or where does the movement/play seem to be coming from?

 

[sschaefer3]

Looking at my bumper specifically, I wonder if the side protection hoops could be extended up higher allowing a second hinge and latch point just above the tail lights. It might look odd, but the swing could pick up a second set of attachment points. If they were made as strong as the lower ones it should make it rock solid under way while keeping everything tied into the frame only.

I made side wing hoops and I ended up with alot of body damage from them defecting into the body. If you do, make sure they don't move under any circumstances. The damage was when the bumper was hit not the side wings.

 

[txbonds]

I made side wing hoops and I ended up with alot of body damage from them defecting into the body. If you do, make sure they don't move under any circumstances. The damage was when the bumper was hit not the side wings.

I'm not going to be doing it. Leaving mine as is but might order your rear body mounts to lessen chance of issues though.

 

[TNRunner99]

As a future buyer of a CBI, plate with swingout (tire only), I'm glad you started this thread. This is information I would have never known about and glad I do now. I'm planning on mounting a 285 on the swingout. I agree I would like to see CBI chime in on this tread about what they think is causing the problem and what their plans are for correction or redesign. I have no body lift and don't plan one. Bumper contact with the body is a major concern I have now.

 

[rideexileex]

One thing as a neutral reader / non-owner of CBI, I would assume it's fair to say that this will exist with all swing outs and manufacturers, and bumpers for that matter, and is not a fault of only CBI.

Given the weld pRon I've seen and customer support stories, CBI would be up near the top of my list on bumper considerations.

 

[TCMach]

PS - I get some very minimal shake on my home built bumper, but nothing like that... Is the bumper gap moving around as you shake the tire in the video, or where does the movement/play seem to be coming from?

Getting back on a productive subject here.

You may be onto something with that frame bracing. When I get my tire moving the bumper wings do move a bit but not nearly to the extent the tire does. Also as soon as I stop forcing the tire to move and it is just settling back down there is zero movement in the wings. From the video [MENTION=58830]JWaldz[/MENTION] posted his seems to move more than mine down by the body gap and thus could make the issue worse?

As a future buyer of a CBI, plate with swingout (tire only), I'm glad you started this thread. This is information I would have never known about and glad I do now. I'm planning on mounting a 285 on the swingout. I agree I would like to see CBI chime in on this tread about what they think is causing the problem and what their plans are for correction or redesign. I have no body lift and don't plan one. Bumper contact with the body is a major concern I have now.

For what its worth I've never had body/bumper wing contact. However I did shim my bumper so it sat level with the body line. When I got it was fractionally off with the front of the bumper wings higher than the back. I think I stuck two washers in the farthest in holes and one in the second farthest hole. Never had an issue since.

 

[Dous]

If you pay close attention to the video you can see that the whole bumper itself is moving. It's not just the tire gate, although there is more movement in the swingout itself.

 

[TNRunner99]

For what its worth I've never had body/bumper wing contact. However I did shim my bumper so it sat level with the body line. When I got it was fractionally off with the front of the bumper wings higher than the back. I think I stuck two washers in the farthest in holes and one in the second farthest hole. Never had an issue since.

Yeah I remember seeing that somewhere on the forum. Looked a lot better afterwards. Is it the weight of the tire that caused it to not be aligned?

 

[TCMach]

Yeah I remember seeing that somewhere on the forum. Looked a lot better afterwards. Is it the weight of the tire that caused it to not be aligned?

I'm really not sure. Even though it seems like it was a big difference two washers is what? about an 1/8th inch? It could have been anything from a jig issue, frame differences between vehicles, weight differences with what goes on the tire carrier, or any combination of these that threw it off. The swing out is designed to work with a 35, jerry cans, and all sorts of junk so if I had to throw out a guess I would say frame differences between the vehicle they made the jig off and mine.

 

[CBI OffRoad Fab]

Hey Everyone!

Thank you for the feedback that you have all given. As a representative from CBI let me give an update from our point of view on this issue.

First let me start by saying that all concerns are valid regarding any product of ours. We always want our customers to be happy with their purchase. Sometimes the problem is definitely an error or bad design from us and we try to acknowledge those issues and fix them for future version of the product. Some times we have also found that certain problems only affect a very small group of users. Those situations usually are due to some difference with their particular vehicles. Whatever the situation we try to deal with it the best that we can.

Regarding the swing arm vibration that is an issue that we were unaware of for the 3rd gen 4runner. We have built and installed many of these bumpers here in our shop (even test fit them on our own 3rd gen) and have not found enough movement to raise any concerns. All swing arms are going to have some movement... even if it isn't noticeable to the eye while driving. Others move way too much like Jwalz video shows. As was mentioned we are looking into this now and will hopefully have some ideas, answers, or options soon for those with this issue.

As a continued reminder we would ask that if any customer has an issue to contact us and express the problem. If we don't get that feedback it is hard for us to solve the problem. We appreciate each of you as customers and fellow enthusiasts and your support to help CBI grow and continue to offer the best off-road products!

Our phone number is 866-522-0697 or email us at [email protected]

 

[nihkon]

I've had my CBI rear bumper with swing out for about a month and a half. It's pretty solid. I do notice some very slight shakes when driving. But when trying to replicate what's in the video...I have virtually zero movement.

1. Body Lift: No
2. Size Spare Tire: 33"
3. Hybrid or Plated Bumper: Hybrid
4. Latch Type: DeStaCo
5. Jerry Can (0,1, or 2): 0
6. Hi-Lift Jack: Yes

Also, if it helps...I have the triangular swing out design with the spare mounted near the center of the tailgate.

 

[gs300tt]

Bringing back an old thread

Has anyone come up with anything useful on this?

 

[JWaldz]

CBI thinks it's party caused by the screw pin latch style they used in earlier models of their swing arms. Yes, it could be part of the problem, but I think it's beyond that. They wanted me to replace my swing arms screw pin style with their DeStaCo style latch but it would require a bit of fabbing to make it work. All on my dime, including having to get re-powder coated. So I said no, and I'll just have to live with it.

 

[the great him]

im in the same boat, though i did not contact CBI directly its kind of a moot point. i have yet to see it acutally affect the performance of the truck or bumper so im not too worried

Rear body mounts tight and intact. CHECK
Bumper mounts/bolts/nuts tight and intact.CHECK
No cracks or failure in metal of swing arm. CHECK
All above correct and problems still persists? (Y/N) YES

Also, please list your options:
Body Lift (Y-?" or N) NO BL
Size Spare Tire? 34" TIRE
Hybrid or Plated Bumper HYBRID
Latch Type SCREW
Jerry Can (0,1, or 2)
HiLift jack? YES
Fold Down Table? YES
Telescoping Light Pole? YES

 

[SDmtnbkr]

Sorry for bringing this back from well beyond the grave:rip::rip: ....but I just got a 3rd Gen T4r and I'm beyond excited to say the least! I was really planning on using this bumper until I just found this thread.

Can anyone of you that have had this bumper now for a few years chime in on whether the issue was ever rectified? Still have your bumpers or have you switched to something else because of the wobble issue?

Thanks so much.

 

[Scramble]

Sorry for bringing this back from well beyond the grave:rip::rip: ....but I just got a 3rd Gen T4r and I'm beyond excited to say the least! I was really planning on using this bumper until I just found this thread.

Can anyone of you that have had this bumper now for a few years chime in on whether the issue was ever rectified? Still have your bumpers or have you switched to something else because of the wobble issue?

Thanks so much.

This bumper seems to get the most complaints. I'd look at Savage, Shrockworks or 4XInnovations.

 

[hungwin jza80]

Sorry guys, but TL/DR as each individual rig and circumstances are different. What I can say is that I've had my CBI since 2013 with no ill affects to NVH or ride and handling characteristics.

Please note that I made some post-install customizations to all but eliminate any movement between the swing arm and bumper. CBI cannot account for each and every rig and you have to take matters into your own hands if you want near-OEM levels of refinement.

Here are links to my design, fabrication, installation, post-mods, and lessons learned:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-thread-2001-sport-blk-oak-9.html#post1505747
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-thread-2001-sport-blk-oak-9.html#post1505750
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-thread-2001-sport-blk-oak-9.html#post1508254
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-thread-2001-sport-blk-oak-9.html#post1511217
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...thread-2001-sport-blk-oak-10.html#post1513230
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...thread-2001-sport-blk-oak-10.html#post1514723

When we go camping, I load it up with a 285/75R16 and 16x8 wheel and four two-gallon RotopaX water containers for rough total of 110 lbs at the very back end of the truck (~81 lbs wheel/tire + 32 lbs water).


If possible, please inspect and verify the following:
Rear body mounts tight and intact.
Bumper mounts/bolts/nuts tight and intact.
No cracks or failure in metal of swing arm.
All above correct and problems still persists? (Y/N) - NO

Also, please list your options:
Body Lift (Y-?" or N) - 1-inch
Size Spare Tire - 285/75R16 on 16x8 Weds Adventure Hase Spec Mad Spoke
Hybrid or Plated Bumper - Plate
Latch Type - De-Sta-Co
Jerry Can (0,1, or 2) - Four 2-gallon RotopaX
Hi-Lift Jack (Y-?" or N) - NO