Cel 12 14 22 & 24

[LWN]

2010 4runner Trail with 260K miles. Keep getting all four of these codes and haven't found any information online. I clear the codes and they return very quickly.

Performance is ok but mileage is worse than usual. The codes say bank one and two camshaft is both over-retarded and over-advanced. Any suggestions? Seems very strange that both camshaft sensors would fail at the same time. I'm baffled.

 

[SilverFox2020]

Sounds like the timing chain has stretched.

 

[fkheath]

Sounds like the timing chain has stretched.

Timing chains don't stretched, but they do wear and the sprockets wear as well which can cause the chain to jump a sprocket tooth. Also, the chain tensioner can fail, causing a loose chain which will also jump sprocket teeth. With as many miles as you have, I bet that is the problem.

 

[LWN]

Timing chains don't stretched, but they do wear and the sprockets wear as well which can cause the chain to jump a sprocket tooth. Also, the chain tensioner can fail, causing a loose chain which will also jump sprocket teeth. With as many miles as you have, I bet that is the problem.

I thought of that, but if that were the case it seems that I'd be getting either an advanced or a retarded code, but not both advanced and retarded codes.

 

[JLTD]

I thought of that, but if that were the case it seems that I'd be getting either an advanced or a retarded code, but not both advanced and retarded codes.

It's possible to be too far advanced in one situation, and too far retarded in another, for example accelerating then decelerating.

I'd agree with timing chain wear (commonly called 'stretch') and that a new chain at a minimum is a good idea. You may also want new chain guides etc while you are in there....

If I might ask, what grade of motor oil have you used during your ownership?

Reason I ask is that there is data showing that lower starting viscosity causes more chain wear than higher starting viscosity; 0w-xx vs 10w-xx for example.

 

[LWN]

It's possible to be too far advanced in one situation, and too far retarded in another, for example accelerating then decelerating.

I'd agree with timing chain wear (commonly called 'stretch') and that a new chain at a minimum is a good idea. You may also want new chain guides etc while you are in there....

If I might ask, what grade of motor oil have you used during your ownership?

Reason I ask is that there is data showing that lower starting viscosity causes more chain wear than higher starting viscosity; 0w-xx vs 10w-xx for example.

Hmm that doesn't sounds like a fun project. I've only used Mobile 1 synthetic. Initially I used 0w-20 but after 100K miles I started getting a small oil leak so I switched to 5W-20.

 

[JLTD]

Depending on the climate where you live a 10w-30 wouldn't be out of the question; and in other countries our engines can use up to 20w-50 so a 30 is fine. I have changed my oil 3x since purchasing and am currently using 5w-30.

 

[LWN]

Depending on the climate where you live a 10w-30 wouldn't be out of the question; and in other countries our engines can use up to 20w-50 so a 30 is fine. I have changed my oil 3x since purchasing and am currently using 5w-30.

So reporting back that this problem is solved without timing chain replacement!

Turns out that the variable vale timing on the 5th gen is controlled by hydraulic pistons and they are driven by oil pressure. Apparently my pistons got gunked up and were sticking and thus not adjusting the camshaft timing and giving the bad readings.

So I added a bottle of motor flush, idled the motor for five minutes, let it soak for 4 hours, changed the oil, and problem is solved. Two days with no CEL.

 

[JLTD]

So reporting back that this problem is solved without timing chain replacement!

Turns out that the variable vale timing on the 5th gen is controlled by hydraulic pistons and they are driven by oil pressure. Apparently my pistons got gunked up and were sticking and thus not adjusting the camshaft timing and giving the bad readings.

So I added a bottle of motor flush, idled the motor for five minutes, let it soak for 4 hours, changed the oil, and problem is solved. Two days with no CEL.

Awesome solution! Nice catch. Maybe your oil changes were running a little long? Wondering what oil and interval you're doing.

 

[LWN]

Awesome solution! Nice catch. Maybe your oil changes were running a little long? Wondering what oil and interval you're doing.

Yea good question. So I think my oil change light was factory set for 5,000 miles and Toyota later changed the approved interval to 7,500. I use a high quality synthetic so every other time the light is lit I just reset it, meaning I change every 10,000. So lesson learned, I'll just change every 5,000. I've got too many miles on the old girl not to at this point.