CEL on loose gas cap, VSC OFF

[tcpoob]

2006 V6 4WD SR5 about 160k miles

last night i was on a 300 miles trip back home and 2/3 of the way on I91 N, the check engine light (CEL) lit when i restarted the engine after a rest stop. Also turned on were VSC Trac and VSC OFF, along with a graphic vehicle sliding icon. Pictures attached below. I pulled over, restarted the engine a few times but the warning lights would remain on. So I had no choice but to drive it another 100 miles home. Then I realized it could be the loose fuel cap because I'd a gas refill in central NJ Exxon, where it was full service. The guy didn't tighted my fuel cap nearly enough. So I tightened it some more, drove it to a gas station, on the way the CEL and other lights remained on. At one point, the CEL was actually blinking. But it settled down to solid. I refilled up and drove some more, perhaps another 15 miles. with stops and restarts of engine when I ran errands.

The question is, if the CEL etc were caused by loose gas cap, after i've re-tightened it, does it take a few days and restart cycles for it to turn themselves off?

Secondly, as i said, at one point, the CEL was blinking - what did that signify? I am hearing it was worse than solid CEL ?

So, my plan is to take it to Autozone who's open on New Year's day. Have then scan and tell me what's wrong. Would it be a good idea, given the suspected loose gas cap (I've since tightened it) cause, to disconnect the battery or have Autozone clear the lights once they've got a reading? I suppose that can also be accomplished by disconnecting and reconnecting car battery?

And, if the Autozone scanner tells me it's any of the O2 sensors, is that something that's DIY'able for a below average handy person? I've only done oil change, spark plugs on this ride. How much would a auto shop or dealer service dept charge for replacing O2 sensor(s)? I believe the parts (O2 sensors) cost between $30-50 (downstream ones) each to $110 ish (upstream ones) .

Thank you and happy new year. BTW, I parked my car outside in the frigid weather (it's < 20 F) so when i started the engine, I felt some abnormal vibration that's rather noticeable. it drove ok however, just when I first started the engine. Not sure if it's related to the CEL problem or just the cold weather.

Cheers.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

Yes, it can take several ignition cycles for the light to go off. You can disconnect the battery to reset the light if you want or wait it out.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

Your toms light is also on. Have you checked your tires and your spare?

 

[BOSMECH]

If your CEL is blinking then I would not drive it.
See your owners manual about that one, that is a bad one if it is just on get a code scanner off of amazon, it will be the best money you spent and they are very easy to use.
As far as the O2 sensor changes it is a little bit of cusing and tight fit but can be done some what easy especially once you have done it once. Probablly the hardest part is get the upstream connectors disconnected.

 

[tcpoob]

Your toms light is also on. Have you checked your tires and your spare?

i believe you meant TPMS. That's the spare tire. It came on sometimes when temperature drops a lot. I did top it off two months ago but that's the original Bridgestone, never used. I am on my 3rd set of tires incl the original. So it went from Bridgestone -> Michelin Cross Terrain -> Michelin® LTX A/S. The spare is a pita to get to and I just disconnected car battery ( do I need to disconnect BOTH positive and negative, or just negative will do? ) so the tailgate doesn't open and I can't access the port to lower the spare.

Speaking of battery, I am still on the original Panasonic, 1 month short of 9 years now, in the Northeast. Impressed. But could a dying battery cause the CEL VSC etc Christmas light issue? From brief searching, it sounds like both 24F and 27F will fit and most of us can't find the exact Panasonic OEM battery? I suppose 27F is better from the CCA spec etc.

What bugs me most is the car shook violently first 30 seconds ish right after starting up yesterday. I suppose it has something to do with the CEL / VSC light issue. I rarely parked the car outside overnight but I'd to last few nights, so perhaps the frigid (10F~20F, and getting even colder next two night to a few degrees below 0F) temp could also cause the violent shaking - it didn't feel/sound right to me. Once I drove it, it felt normal, other than the warning lights.

What's an easy way to tell if VSC and TRAC are really enabled? I never paid attention to them when they work and only noticed some beeping when the car skidded in the snow when I cornered. I don't suppose I can generate that skidding condition at will but maybe I'll have to try that to see if VSC and TRAC are re-enabled, assuming I can get the warning lights to turn off somehow (battery reset, and tightening gas cap). I don't have a new one to compare the fuel cap with but mine still looked normal.

I've not taken it to Autozone to get reading yet. For this vintage, 2005 4WD v6 SR5, purchased Jan 2005, I am guessing it's still using the ISO bus protocol for OBD, not the newer CAN protocol? I gather that plugging those OBD scanners for a read and clear may only turn off the CEL, but leave the VSC and VSC Trac on due the "zero point calibration" data accidentally erased from car memory, thereby requiring the zero point calibration. I am trying to avoid that procedure.

I am really hoping not having to get a new CAT. I've about 160,000 miles. Is it too late to get Toyota Service to put a new one on, because I never took it back for the sulfur (rotten egg) TSB, and I wasn't tracking any other TSBs at all. If it does get to the point I need to replace O2 sensor(s), I've an impact wrench and breaker bars, penetrating lube, so hopefully cracking the nut loose isn't too bad - is there enough clearance to use an impact wrench?

Thank you everyone, best wishes for 2014 :car:

 

[tcpoob]

lights off for now

i disconnected and reconnected the battery, started the engine for like a minute but didn't drive the ride. it looked like the warning lights are off for now.

the low tire pressure light remained on but i did just top off the spare so i am not concerned at all, it should turn off after i drive it around for a bit when tpms refreshes.

on the other hand, i freaking lost a 10mm 3/8 drive socket 12pt in the engine bay under hood. i thought i saw it ( not 100% ). i started another thread
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/158450-retrieve-dropped-10mm-socket-under-hood.html

any trick to get at that or should i just forget about it - it's just a 10mm socket. But i'd hate to ruin the otherwise complete set. It's black chrome finish, i know that doesn't help looking for it.

 

[tcpoob]

intermittent flashing check engine light

does the check engine light have to be on for autozone to read the code? or can they usually retrieve the codes even the CEL has turned itself off?

i am getting the checking engine light blinking flashing everyday when i first start the car, followed by rough idle, violent shaking after the car is started for about a minute, then as i started driving it, the flashing CEL (and VSC OFF TRAC ...) would turn off, sometimes turn back on again for another minute or two then eventually seemed to stay off. The next start of the engine after a trip (a few miles) is usually ok. the more i read about the HG issue, the more nervous i am.

2005 v6 4wd 160k miles , never over-heated, coolant loss not obvious, i'll have to check on this. is there an easy way to tell - by smelling the coolant for gas or something?

i don't suppose an aging / week (Panasonic, almost 9 years now, but still showing blue circle "ok" status) car battery would trigger the above symptoms? despite the "ok" blue status on the battery indicator itself, autozone tested it and told me it's no good " doesn't hold a charge " . I guess it's about time but i really don't think that had anything to do with the CEL lights and violent vibration on first startup of a day.

thanks

 

[raygenjay]

If I remember correctly, according to Toyota a flashing check engine light means that something maybe causing damage to the catalytic system. Like if you have a misfire,timing issue, not enough fuel or too much fuel not being burned. When the check engine light stays on then you have a " hard failure "' which means something has failed. Usually the check engine light has to be on for autozone to retrieve the dtc, unless they have a way to see history or do a "health check".

 

[hearno]

Flashing check engine means it's misfiring

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I made a really good thread for people who were wondering about their MIL.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/151487-check-engine-trac-vsc-read-me.html
(I updated it with a line explaining flashing MILs and corrected some spelling errors.)

 

[tcpoob]

Good morning folks.

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]: thx, am reviewing your writeup. Thx others forsuggesting misfiring cond on a blinking MIL/CEL.

So I think we have agreement that a intermittent blinking CEL (combined with illuminated VSC OFF , VSC TRAC), rough/violent idle first engine start in the morning, is unlikely caused by a weak/dying Panasonic OEM battery, correct? I bought a new replacement battery yesterday but haven't installed it. Like I said, the Panasonic still shows the blue bulls-eye indicator for "OK" status. Perhaps it's still worth it to swap in the new car battery just to get that concern outta the way? I won't complain getting almost 9 years out of the Panasonic, but 160k on a well maintained 1GR-FE engine, I am pissed. I was confident this thing will go another 40k miles to at least 200k without major issues. It is Model Year 2005 V6 4WD 160k now, fed synthetic M1, garaged nightly.

Reading up on the good write-up now ...

 

[YotaDriver]

Hate to sound like a downer here, but the violent shaking at start-up makes me think you might be dealing with a blown headgasket as opposed to just a loose gas gap. The frigid temperatures could potentially exacerbate this problem because metal shrinks a bit as it gets cold, so maybe the temperature finally got low enough where coolant was able to compromise your gasket and get into the cylinder.

I'd still have the code pulled, but be prepared for the dreaded P0340 or P0430 (whichever one it is, I forget)...

 

[ebg18t]

Hate to sound like a downer here, but the violent shaking at start-up makes me think you might be dealing with a blown headgasket as opposed to just a loose gas gap. The frigid temperatures could potentially exacerbate this problem because metal shrinks a bit as it gets cold, so maybe the temperature finally got low enough where coolant was able to compromise your gasket and get into the cylinder.



I'd still have the code pulled, but be prepared for the dreaded P0340 or P0430 (whichever one it is, I forget)...

I was thinking the same concern unfortunately..

 

[tcpoob]

leak from bad HG ?

posting two shots I just took. is that a sign from HG blown/leak? if so, it started at least 2~3 years ago.

Passenger side, note the circled area. Not the way to start New Year I'd in mind for sure.

What does it mean for HG to be "blown", vs what, a less severe form of HG leak? So there are two HGs, one of the driver side, the other on the passenger side?

I am with you on the freezing temp exacerbating the leak. How do they number the cylinders, 1 to 6? standing in front of the truck facing the engine, does it start from the right/driver side , like below?
6 1
5 2
4 3

 

[YotaDriver]

I am with you on the freezing temp exacerbating the leak. How do they number the cylinders, 1 to 6? standing in front of the truck facing the engine, does it start from the right/driver side , like below?
6 1
5 2
4 3

No. The #6 cylinder is the one closest to the driver's seat, the #5 is on the passenger side, #4 is middle cylinder on driver's side, etc.

I wouldn't expect to see coolant on the outside of your engine based on what you've described, but there could be evidence of coolant contamination on the inside. Specifically, take it to a mechanic (following having the codes pulled) and ask for a leak down test. You can also check to see if you've got hydrocarbons in your coolant, i.e. oil in there, or coolant in your oil.

You could also start by pulling the plug in your #6 cylinder to check and see how the diode looks. If it's suspiciously clean compared to another plug that would be another indication that you could have coolant leaking into that cylinder. The rough idle at start-up has been explained as the engine burning off the coolant that seeped in while the engine was off, with the position of the actual piston while at rest influencing how much coolant may get in there.

Again, as a V6 owner I hate hearing these stories, but with an '05 V6 at 160,000 miles, you're right in the sweet spot for this type of failure.

 

[tcpoob]

No. The #6 cylinder is the one closest to the driver's seat, the #5 is on the passenger side, #4 is middle cylinder on driver's side, etc.

I wouldn't expect to see coolant on the outside of your engine based...

Thx. I also realized the stain/leak from the passenger side engine was from valve cover gasket, according to my own thread with input from BlackworksInc and others. So it's off topic here.

Now we are back to the blown HG discussion that's suspected to cause my troubles. I made an appointment w Toyota to bring it in later this week to get the code read. I am hoping they can read it from "history" saved in memory, even without the MIL being active the very moment I dropped it off at the service department? Because remember, the CEL and other lights tend to turn off a few minutes later after driving, so I don't expect the CEL issue to be on and caught red-handed the moment I arrive at the dealership service, they'll have to go by "history" for the codes, and I am hearing they can do that. Right?

Thanks

 

[YotaDriver]

I am hoping they can read it from "history" saved in memory, even without the MIL being active the very moment I dropped it off at the service department? Because remember, the CEL and other lights tend to turn off a few minutes later after driving, so I don't expect the CEL issue to be on and caught red-handed the moment I arrive at the dealership service, they'll have to go by "history" for the codes, and I am hearing they can do that. Right?

Thanks

I'm not sure how much history the OBDII system stores, but if codes have been thrown recently the reader should be able to pick it up. I used to have a 3rd generation 4Runner with a bad catalytic converter. I didn't want to change it out because the tab was north of $1,000 so I disconnected my battery one morning on my way to get it inspected. Two seconds after connecting my car to the reader the mechanic asked me if I'd recently disconnected my battery. Needless to say, I didn't get my inspection sticker that day.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Unfortunately I have to get to an appointment right now, so I can't read the entire thread. But out of curiosity how many of you guys are getting your valve adjustments done

Toyota says it should be done at 5yr/60k (usually Toyotas tend to hold much better than say Hondas in terms of clearance due to the shim design vs. traditional captive screw), this could affect higher mileage vehicles slightly in performance and such. Not to mention that on the 1GR-FE the plugs (for the non-Dual VVTi engines, but no 4th gen has Dual VVTi anyways) are not Iridium like the 2UZ-FE and need to be changed every 30k, this could cause issues also.

I'm no saying the above IS the issue, but those overlooked services COULD compile at extended mileage to start a minor misfire problem (have seen this happen in a lot of older cars.) I will look over the thread when I get some time, I am on vacation for the next week or two so I have no access to TIS, but I will still do my best to help you out.

 

[qingyuwu]

Just disconnect the battery and reconnect to remove the code and see what happen then.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Have you had to jump start the truck a lot lately? If the battery died it could have reset the throttle learned value which in combination with what ever issue you are experiencing could be exaggerating the issue. I would wait 10-20 minutes after taking the old battery out, then install the new one and let the vehicle idle for about 10 minutes with no loads.

This will allow the vehicle to relearn a proper idle baseline (the vehicle will run rough for a while until you drive it a few cycles as it learns everything new again). This will give you a good starting point to begin with in terms of diagnostics and help rule out voltage variances causing issues in the ignition system. It will more than likely not fix the issue, but will help eliminate other possible culprits. I am also curious about your service history about the valve adjustment and spark plug replacements as I pointed out before.

This time when your MIL turns back on, I would recommend you go to someone with a scanner (you can even get Chinese TIS Techstreams for an affordable cost that work pretty well) so you can pull the DTCs and we can go over them with you.