Chasing Down some Vibes, and I don't mean "Good Vibrations" :D

[TheFriZ]

I'm trying to chase down some vibrations I am feeling. I feel them underneath the truck at speeds from 55mph up in to the 70's... Nothing crazy, just a nice, tight vibration.

At first thought, I thought of the Rear Driveshaft, because that is what it felt like. I crawled under the truck with my trusty Lincoln Grease Gun and gave the rear driveshaft a wiggle. I could feel a slight bit of play at the Slip Joint. I put some grease in the slip joint until I could see the driveshaft bump with a pump from the grease gun. I went ahead and gave the Double Cardan Joint a few shots of grease as well in each of the two U-Joints. I also went ahead and greased the Slip Joint on the Front Driveshaft while I was down there.

Test Drive: there was an ever so slight improvement, but the vibes were still there.

On to the next possibilities. As some of you guys know, when I first bought the truck, the steering was all jacked up and the front shocks were blown. The steering rack had a lot of play in it. Well, now I have replaced the steering rack, Lower Ball Joints, Shocks, etc... I got the truck aligned afterwards. When I first drove it, I could feel a lot of vibes in my steering wheel.
Well, I could see some inside camber wear on the front tires, which are pretty damn new, Goodyear Tracker 2's. So, after it was aligned and all fixed up, I rotated the front tires to the back(on the same side they were on). This cleaned up the steering wheel vibes.

So, now I'm thinking it could be the tires. Obviously, they need to be rebalanced; One, because tires obviously need to be rebalanced every so often, Two, because I have no idea who balanced them before, and Three, because I feel that the wear on the front(now the back) tires could have worn them out of balance.

However, what makes me think that it isn't the tires is that it only comes around after I get above 55-60mph... I would think that I would feel the vibrations more often if it was tire related. I guess if it is tires, once you are going that speed, the tires change shape from which they are when you are only going 25-30mph....

If it's not tires, Do 4Runners have any idiosyncratic little things that cause vibrations? Going back to my Jeep days, there were lots of things that could change ever so slightly and you would get Death wobble in your steering, or you would get rear driveshaft vibes... Hell, my rear leafs sagged over time and ultimately a change in 1/4 inch height gave me rear d/s vibes.....

I did put 1.5" rear spacers and 1" spacers on the truck when I put new shocks on it.

Being that it is a linked suspension and not leaf sprung, this usually accounts for driveshaft angle in the arc of the suspension, so I wouldn't think it would be rear pinion angle. Obviously the front 3rd member doesn't move with a lift, so the front pinion angle wouldn't be suspect. Would a 1" lift bring vibes to the front C/V axles?

 

[Link817]

Did you have any vibrations in the truck before the lift?
I doubt it is coming from the front end cv's. They are just spinning with no load on them, there is no engagement on them until the transfer case, that is why you can put a limited slip in the front end and drive in 2wd and never know any difference in the front end.

I can't say to all of the reasons, yea tires out of balance usually happens instantly and you feel it a lot.

I am by no means an expert w/ the runners but have been around yotas for a long time. Wonder if its drive vibes, stack washers(cheap spacer) and drop the double cardan joint down. See if this helps and if not your not out bunch of time and money. A buddy of mine did a lift on his 2011 yota and he did this to help out his vibs and says he wants a once piece drive shaft<---another story for another day.

 

[TheFriZ]

Did you have any vibrations in the truck before the lift?
I doubt it is coming from the front end cv's. They are just spinning with no load on them, there is no engagement on them until the transfer case, that is why you can put a limited slip in the front end and drive in 2wd and never know any difference in the front end.

I can't say to all of the reasons, yea tires out of balance usually happens instantly and you feel it a lot.

I am by no means an expert w/ the runners but have been around yotas for a long time. Wonder if its drive vibes, stack washers(cheap spacer) and drop the double cardan joint down. See if this helps and if not your not out bunch of time and money. A buddy of mine did a lift on his 2011 yota and he did this to help out his vibs and says he wants a once piece drive shaft<---another story for another day.

I would think a transfer case drop wouldn't do much. On something with leaf springs, where you put different leafs on it, yes, but on something that has a 4 link, the coil spacers are only adding to the arc. The rear pinion would be staying in the same arc as stock height. ultimately, as a certain height you would need it, but not at this I wouldn't think. Not to mention, my rear springs had a bit of sag... so honestly, I'm probably only 3/4 of an inch above where it should be stock...LOL

I know people do diff drops in the front, and I plan to eventually, but I wouldn't think a 1" lift would warrant a diff drop?? I could be wrong though.

With tires, if it was the tires, all I could think is that as you spin them faster, they "plane" out and change shape from the speed of rotation, so I may be feeling them more once they are at speed? A balance is in the near future, as soon as I find a shop that isn't going to charge me $40 to do it.

 

[Link817]

Toyota 4X4 OEM Shim for RR Drive Shaft Center Support Bearing - to Correct Vibration - Tacoma World Forums

This set of posts is what I was thinking about. Would not worry about diff drop with a 1 inch lift, look at the fins of the cv's and see how close they are. I put one on my truck when i had a 3 inch lift but doubt I will do one when I put a lift on my runner.

Oh yea, discount tires rotates, balances, and patches tires for free even if you didn't buy the tires from them, don't know if you have them near you.

 

[TheFriZ]

Toyota 4X4 OEM Shim for RR Drive Shaft Center Support Bearing - to Correct Vibration - Tacoma World Forums

This set of posts is what I was thinking about. Would not worry about diff drop with a 1 inch lift, look at the fins of the cv's and see how close they are. I put one on my truck when i had a 3 inch lift but doubt I will do one when I put a lift on my runner.

Oh yea, discount tires rotates, balances, and patches tires for free even if you didn't buy the tires from them, don't know if you have them near you.

This applies to vehicles that have leaf springs.. when you lift something with Leaf springs, your pinion angle gets changed at the diff... With newer 4runners, being a 4link with coil rear end, the suspension is going to maintain the same arc, so I wouldn't "think" this would be the issue. I'm sure it comes into play once someone puts a HUGE lift on it, but not when it is just 1-3" I doubt; Especially since they already have Double Cardan driveshafts from the factory.. Thanks for the link though, regardless!

on to the updates...

Well, I got the Tires balanced yesterday, only two were slightly out of balance, now they are all perfect... The 4Runner has also had some time to distribute the fresh grease in the Driveshafts...

I'm still feeling some faint vibrations from 55mph on up through the 70's... I'm not sure what to check next. I guess Driveshaft U-Joints would be a good next step... they are always just such a pain... LOL I was hoping it was just tire balance and I'd get off easy!!

Any other suggestions are greatly welcome though!!

 

[TheFriZ]

bump, im still feeling this between 55mph and 75mph

 

[wolfman4]

FriZ,
Did you get this vibration figured out? I have the same issue but mine starts at 50-65 then at 70 runs smooth! I am replacing the rack bushings and sway bar bushings this weekend as well as tie rod ends just because I'm there. Hope it goes away. Bought my 97 about 2 months ago and still don't like driving it on the highway. Will let you know what I find out as well.
Good luck!

 

[TheFriZ]

FriZ,
Did you get this vibration figured out? I have the same issue but mine starts at 50-65 then at 70 runs smooth! I am replacing the rack bushings and sway bar bushings this weekend as well as tie rod ends just because I'm there. Hope it goes away. Bought my 97 about 2 months ago and still don't like driving it on the highway. Will let you know what I find out as well.
Good luck!

I have not!! I had to turn my New OEM Steering rack in on a warranty claim... I was hoping this would fix it, but it hasn't...

I have
NEW OEM Toyota Steering Rack
NEW OEM Toyota Lower Ball Joints
Newish Outer Tie Rod Ends....

The new rack obviously has new OEM Rubber bushings in it... On the passenger side wrap around bushing ive tried the OEM rubber and a Poly bushing.. but it has made no difference...

The Outer Rod ends look OEM, they are definitely fresh.. But they could be parts store rebuilt units I suppose... Id hate to change them for no reason though...

My Upper Ball joints seem to be good, no grease squirting out... no play in them

My wheel bearings seem to be good. Absolutely no play in them... No bearing roar typical of when a bearing starts to go bad...

I do have some bad sway bar bushings that are clunking... but that shouldn't affect the steering... just sway/lean...

My Rag Joint, the little rubber joint/bushing between the steering rack and the steering is cracked and could use a replacement... I really wouldn't think that would be the cause though....


This thread hasn't gotten much attention, Does anyone have any ideas????? do 4runners have any common causes for this????

 

[TheFriZ]

What really sucks is that I just bought a 1997 240sx that is doing the same thing.... -_-

 

[Run 4 Fun]

I have not!! I had to turn my New OEM Steering rack in on a warranty claim... I was hoping this would fix it, but it hasn't...

I have
NEW OEM Toyota Steering Rack
NEW OEM Toyota Lower Ball Joints
Newish Outer Tie Rod Ends....

The new rack obviously has new OEM Rubber bushings in it... On the passenger side wrap around bushing ive tried the OEM rubber and a Poly bushing.. but it has made no difference...

The Outer Rod ends look OEM, they are definitely fresh.. But they could be parts store rebuilt units I suppose... Id hate to change them for no reason though...

My Upper Ball joints seem to be good, no grease squirting out... no play in them

My wheel bearings seem to be good. Absolutely no play in them... No bearing roar typical of when a bearing starts to go bad...

I do have some bad sway bar bushings that are clunking... but that shouldn't affect the steering... just sway/lean...

My Rag Joint, the little rubber joint/bushing between the steering rack and the steering is cracked and could use a replacement... I really wouldn't think that would be the cause though....


This thread hasn't gotten much attention, Does anyone have any ideas????? do 4runners have any common causes for this????

Maybe a u-joint? When I had a Jeep(XJ) I had similar symptoms when my u-joint was going out. It progressively got worse over time. When it starts vibrating, does it stop when you let off the gas?

 

[BlazeRunner]

Have you looked at your control arm bushings? If they have play they can cause vibrations, but in all honesty it's probably your tires or wheels. Go get a road force balancing and have them use a lug centric adapter. The bad part is around here it's $25 a tire, but prices can vary. It's worth it if it turns out to be your problem instead of throwing money at other items that might not need it just yet.
Also, I used to own a '95 240sx w a '98 SR20DET, regret selling it.. but if your wheels are aftermarket on the s14 make sure they're sitting on the hub and no space between wheels and hub, use hub ring spacers, even if your wheels are balanced, if they're not sitting on the hub right you will have vibrations.

 

[TheFriZ]

I have rotated the tires in infinite orientations, and it hasn't affected it... I have had them balanced at two different shops also. I don't have access to a Road force balancer anywhere within an hour and a half from home...

Im going to try swapping the wheels and tires from my Father's Tacoma, and see if it changes...

I only feel it from 55-75..

I haven't installed new control arm bushings, no... are they a common problem... Any tips to inspecting them?

 

[TheFriZ]

Maybe a u-joint? When I had a Jeep(XJ) I had similar symptoms when my u-joint was going out. It progressively got worse over time. When it starts vibrating, does it stop when you let off the gas?

It's not driveline vibes like a bad u-joint. It's a shimmy/vibration in the steering between 55-75... it makes my steering wheel wobble, etc...

Imagine Death Wobble(if you had a Cherokee, you should have experienced this once)... just not as severe as death wobble...

I actually used to have a Cherokee... 3 linked, heimed, locked, 4.88's... armor..etc...

 

[Andy in Pa]

I wouldnt rule out the driveshafts. When a vehicle lift height is changed, it changes the angles at which things are familiar with operating at... Take a hard look at the cv's in the driveshafts. You may find that at the angle they are operating at now, the wear pattern on the ball/socket is different now. Try to get in there and grease that joint really good. There is (or should be) a needle style grease fitting in it somewhere.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Closely inspect the calipers. I found one of my calipers slightly binding. Look at the dust seals for any tearing or cracking on the inner or outer pads.

 

[TheFriZ]

I wouldnt rule out the driveshafts. When a vehicle lift height is changed, it changes the angles at which things are familiar with operating at... Take a hard look at the cv's in the driveshafts. You may find that at the angle they are operating at now, the wear pattern on the ball/socket is different now. Try to get in there and grease that joint really good. There is (or should be) a needle style grease fitting in it somewhere.

I actually have greased all of the U-Joints, but I am sure some fresh ones would be beneficial. Im pretty familiar with what bad ujoints feel like, as it happened in my jeep regularly. This really feels like a suspension problem, more a steering shimmy than a driveline vibe!

 

[triangles]

my '99 2WD has the steering wheel shimmy at about 70-72. Faster or slower it fades away. I've replace LBJ and tie rod ends which only helped but did not eliminate. Been trying to figure it out for 10 years. I guess it's just the way 4runners roll.

 

[TheFriZ]

Well, I was able to get my truck on a lift.

I tried to pry and pry on the lower control arms, and visually inspected them. I couldn't get any movement up/down or in/out... They seemed tight. Visually, I couldn't see any cracking or anything on them. The only movement I could get out of them was prying them front/back, like along the axis of the bolt... Which, I would expect that movement, right?

I still hear a slight pop in the steering rack, but im starting to assume that this is just the sound they make?? the pop occurs when you are changing over left to right or vice-versa. Normal? I sure hope so, this is my second NEW OEM steering rack in a few months...


I did notice, having someone rock wheels side to side, that I could only make the noise above happen from the drivers side wheel, if done from the passenger side, it wouldn't be audible. But im 99% its coming from the rack, and not the OTR... Its the second rack from Toyota I have put in because the first rack developed a popping.

Again, while having someone rock the wheels side to side, I could see a LOT of movement coming from my steering rack, even on brand new fresh rubber bushings. While someone rocked the wheel back and forth, the rack definitely rocked with it.

Im going to install the whole ES poly steering rack bushing kit and see what I get out of it...

I wonder if that rack movement could be enough to give me the shakes at high speeds?

 

[MojaveMadMan]

Man vibs are a tuff one... It is a time and money game on these older trucks. Add in a couple design flaws by Toyota on the steering for these trucks and it just get very difficult.

You are right about the rack being a weak point and it could be causing these vibes for you. Every 4runner is a little different and if you add all the variables up on your rig, it might just be something you always have. The steering in these rigs is just a bad design from Toyota from the get go. Having the rack and the tie rods behind the spindle means they receive a great amount of inward force from the tires. This leads to a faster wear rate on the rack and tie rod parts. Then you add in the bad design of the rack itself and the poor guides they use (event the new style) and it is just a recipe for making a problem that might always exist... I for one have been slowly researching and trying to find a way to get rid of this rack and design and do something a little different. But this is an expensive dream and won't happen for a while...

Also something easy you can try that I know people have had success with is welding the shaft in the steering column. I wish I had a link to provide you, but I have seen a few people do it on here, and the original writeup is on TTORA. Basically people have identified that there is some slop in the stock column where there is a slip joint. You tack weld it together so it cannot move around and people have reported a much tighter feel on the wheel. It's a long shot, but its practically free to do and just takes a little time. Might be worth eliminating from the list of possibilities. A little slop might be translating to that feeling in the wheel...

Good luck and good on you for continuing to track this down, others will definitely benefit from this thread!

 

[triangles]

while having someone rock the wheels side to side, I could see a LOT of movement coming from my steering rack, even on brand new fresh rubber bushings. While someone rocked the wheel back and forth, the rack definitely rocked with it.

Im going to install the whole ES poly steering rack bushing kit and see what I get out of it...

I wonder if that rack movement could be enough to give me the shakes at high speeds?

Let us know if the ES bushing kit fixes or at least helps. If it does I may try this too and I thank you in advance for trying it! As for your popping in the rack..... That is baffling especially with a new rack.