Clutch Etiquette Questions

[adkinsadam1]

So I am relatively new at driving a manual transmission... I have been doing so since Saturday.

I want my clutch and transmission and everything to last as long as possible, so I am all about what wears out the bits the least, but being on my own with learning how to shift, I want to make sure I haven't learned how to do it wrong!

1. When braking, should I hold down the clutch as I slow down and then when I reach my stop put it into gear and wait to sail off? Or should I put it into neutral when I start braking and then brake in neutral with my foot off the clutch and then keep it in neutral at the light until I need to go? Or should I downshift? I do not do this at all currently, as I figured it would be more wear on the clutch and trans - pushing in and pulling out the clutch more times than the other options.

2. Setting off is still a bit of a problem for me. I feel like I either give it too little gas or let off the clutch too quickly, because the RPMs dip to about 400 and the car kind of lurches every time I set off. Is it better to come off the clutch even slower with even more gas to prevent this from happening?

3. When I reverse, I basically just have the clutch exactly halfway down without touching the gas. Because I want to reverse SLOWLY, and if I come all the way off the clutch I am flying. I know this is the dreaded "riding the clutch", but I don't know how else I should reverse.

4. When should I apply the gas to shift? Should I always "rev match", or apply more gas before I've come off the clutch so the revs match what I expect them to be in this new gear?

5. What RPM is too low and hard on the components of the engine or transmission? I often put it into 4th at a speed where the RPMs may be around 1000 to 1500, and I'll have to give it some gas to get it to accelerate. Is this bad? Instead should I go into 3rd? I really suck at downshifting.

Thanks for answering all my questions! I feel like I'm just never going to get the hang of this. It's been five days!

 

[KidVermicious]

I leave the truck in gear with the clutch engaged as I'm slowing, just in case I need to accelerate. Your way is fine too.

Setting off has a different feel for every manual I've driven. The best way to get used it is to practice - let out the clutch until you feel it bite, and then continue letting out the clutch as you give it gas and keep them balanced. If you let out too much clutch, you'll lug, if you don't let out enough, your RPMs will race. Do it slowly at first and when nobody is behind you, and you'll get faster as you get better at it.

Reversing is a skill like anything else, and you've added another component to it. You'll get more comfortable with practice, and it won't feel like you're "flying". Don't worry about riding the clutch for the couple feet it takes to back out of a parking spot, that won't be an issue.

I don't ever rev match, but I have a crappy little 4banger so I rev high (4000ish rpm) and shift late, that generally lands me right at the optimum rev for the next gear. You'll have to find what feels best in your truck, but I wouldn't let the RPMs drop much below 1500, at least not in higher gears.

Yes, giving it a whack of gas in higher gears with low RPM is bad - downshifting is much easier on your drivetrain. It's not going to blow up right now if you keep doing that, but it will wear components out faster. You'll get your best mileage by shifting at the bottom of the effective torque curve (feels like about 1800 RPM in my little 4banger, yours might be higher), and you'll get the best "kick" by shifting so you land at the peak of the torque curve, which I think is 4800 rpm or the 5vze? I wouldn't go to either extreme though.

You will get the hang of it. Have you ever looked at a clutch system, to understand exactly how it operates and what it's doing when you press the pedal? If you haven't, that will help.

 

[nevada]

practice practice practice. 5 days is nothing.
it takes time, you'll figure it out. eventually it will be 2nd nature, and you'll be doing things without even thinking about it.


go to a big empty lot and practice. stopping, starting, parking and backing out of a space.

one trick I picked up along the way, for taking off. from stopped, in first gear, leave your right foot OFF the throttle, using only the clutch, and letting the engine idle, release the clutch slowly until you're moving, and the clutch is all the way out.


you mentioned "flying" when backing out. use less throttle, and possibly less clutch, if less throttle will cause it do die. the above exercise will help with that.

 

[TRDFerguson]

one trick I picked up along the way, for taking off. from stopped, in first gear, leave your right foot OFF the throttle, using only the clutch, and letting the engine idle, release the clutch slowly until you're moving, and the clutch is all the way out.

x2 this is exactly how i was initially taught how to drive a manual. it really gives you an idea of when the clutch engages and where that sweet spot is on the whole travel of the clutch pedal.

but really if youre already able to drive in traffic... youve got 80% of it figured out and the rest is just fine tuning.

 

[thor999]

Lol I learned how to drive a manual in an '89 Pontiac GTA, fastest car I ever owned. I did have one thing to throw out there for you though: when someone comes to a stop a credit cards length from you, behind you, on a hill, and you haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet, use your e-brake! (Sparingly) Cheaper to replace than having a-holes call your insurance agent. I will probably be ridiculed for this, but saved my bacon many times, and, I never did lose my e-brake!
imp:

 

[SR5Runner97]

Riding the clutch in reverse is exactly what I do. It's the only way if you don't want to go fast and as long as you're not doing that for miles upon miles you're fine. Also get this Amazon.com: Manual Transmission If I Roll In To You You're Too Close Bumper Sticker: Everything Else
People behind you start chuckling and most of the time give you a little extra room.

With using the e-brake. don't pull it too tight. Just enough so you don't fall back, or very slowly roll back and then rev it to 2k and SLOWLY take foot off clutch while releasing the ebrake at the same time. Go find a hill and practice now. I avoided hills my first 2 months but I can start on any road hill now just fine.

 

[SR5Runner97]

Also, you'll get better at downshifting. I now have it down and it's my favorite thing to do.. going 65 in 5th, someone is slow I downshift and fly by them at 75 then shift up again.

 

[thor999]

+1 for downshifting, I hardly EVER used my foot brake!

 

[JimG]

I have a '99 v6 with the five speed. Until you're used to it, take your time, you're driving a truck, not a sportscar, so if you don't take off quite as fast as the guy beside you, big deal. You're driving a truck.
I rarely give any extra throttle until I've almost let the clutch fully out. With the sychromesh transmission I don't think you need to rev match, or at least I never do, with practice you'll learn to shift smooth. Also just because a stupid question is easier to ask than a stupid mistake is to fix, you do know not to ride the clutch? Push it to the fire wall, and take your foot off it once you're moving until you're going to shift. I don't think there is any 'too low' an RPM, if the engine seems to be lugging, down shift. These are relatively high reving engines that develop their power at a higher speed so unless you're redlining it you're not going to hurt anything by being in a lower gear.

 

[Grenvilleter]

+1 for downshifting, I hardly EVER used my foot brake!

I used to do that as well then I realized I could change brakes much easier than the clutch plate and it is much cheaper.

Just my philosophy but to each their own.

Don't sit at a red light in gear for long stretches. Pop it in neutral and remove foot from clutch. Avoids premature wear on the pilot or throwout bearing.

Develop the habit of making sure your left foot is never on the clutch unless you are about to use it. IE: Avoid using your clutch pedal as a foot rest when cruising on the highway.

 

[whiskey_fish]

Neither of our trucks have standards (too much wear on the clutch towing) but our cars do. The Mazda 3 I commute in has a very tall, fast reverse, and riding the clutch is even fast in some scenarios. Usually in a parking lot etc, you can just bump the gas, pull slightly on the clutch and then depress it again. Practice it a little and you can get just the right small touch of speed you need to exit the space etc and then get going forward again.

When my wife taught me to drive stick in college she had me bring the rpm to 1500 and keep it there while fully letting out the clutch. Great way to practice two pedal manipulation.

 

[I_bRAD]

Back into the space.

 

[02SE]

and you'll get the best "kick" by shifting so you land at the peak of the torque curve, which I think is 4800 rpm or the 5vze?

Since you phrased that in the form of a question, I thought I'd reply.

The 5VZ-FE horsepower peak is at 4800 rpm. The torque peak is at 3600 rpm.


OP, the one thing you should avoid, is lugging the engine. Say the engine is turning 1500 rpm or less, and when you press the gas pedal the truck doesn't/can't accelerate. That's a sign you need to shift to a lower gear to bring the rpm up. It's much better for the longevity of the engine to downshift and rev it up a bit, than lugging the engine in a too high for conditions gear.

I should add not to fixate on 1500 rpm. Any time you are driving along say in 5th gear, and you give the truck more throttle or even full throttle and it doesn't/can't accelerate, means you would be better off shifting to the next lower gear.

An example with my own V6 5-speed 4Runner is a nearby highway grade. It's a 6% grade at over 5000 feet in elevation. My truck with slightly oversized tires can hold 65 mph in 5th gear, while turning approximately 2500 rpm, if I give it full throttle. It's much easier on the truck if I downshift to 4th gear, and run up the hill at part-throttle with the engine turning over 3000 rpm.

 

[jasonoflivingston]

I am certainly no expert, but driving a manual transmission is a load of compromises that you simply have to weigh for yourself. You can use engine braking by downshifting to slow yourself down coming to a stop or into a corner, but you wear more on your clutch/syncros instead of your brakes. You can rev match on downshifts, but you lose engine braking. You can engine brake when coming in to a stop, but you get best fuel economy by leaving the vehicle in gear as long as possible with the clutch pedal out (you will of course stall if you try to come to a full stop like this), downshifting as you slow down puts you in a better gear in case you have to take off again etc. etc. etc. until the cows come home.

That aside, practicing getting the car rolling a little bit using just the clutch helped me with my starts a lot. Starts will be your biggest clutch eater (besides forgetting to take your foot off the pedal) so practice. To add to the point about e-brake on hills if someone is riding your bumper, I would also suggest if you are coming to a stop and the guy coming up behind you looks the type to crowd up close, stop and then roll back a touch on purpose before he gets there. It lets him know you are in a manual car and you have a tendency to roll back a bit on takeoff.

In the end, each transmission has its own personality. Find out what yours likes and practice with it.

 

[turbo8]

Learn to use all 3 pedals at the same time and you will never be scared starting on a hill again.

 

[adkinsadam1]

Since you phrased that in the form of a question, I thought I'd reply.

The 5VZ-FE horsepower peak is at 4800 rpm. The torque peak is at 3600 rpm.


OP, the one thing you should avoid, is lugging the engine. Say the engine is turning 1500 rpm or less, and when you press the gas pedal the truck doesn't/can't accelerate. That's a sign you need to shift to a lower gear to bring the rpm up. It's much better for the longevity of the engine to downshift and rev it up a bit, than lugging the engine in a too high for conditions gear.

I should add not to fixate on 1500 rpm. Any time you are driving along say in 5th gear, and you give the truck more throttle or even full throttle and it doesn't/can't accelerate, means you would be better off shifting to the next lower gear.

An example with my own V6 5-speed 4Runner is a nearby highway grade. It's a 6% grade at over 5000 feet in elevation. My truck with slightly oversized tires can hold 65 mph in 5th gear, while turning approximately 2500 rpm, if I give it full throttle. It's much easier on the truck if I downshift to 4th gear, and run up the hill at part-throttle with the engine turning over 3000 rpm.

That is good information to hear because I often try to cruise at about 1000 to 1500 RPM. But I guess I should shoot for 1500+ at all times to reduce strain on the engine?

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

That is good information to hear because I often try to cruise at about 1000 to 1500 RPM. But I guess I should shoot for 1500+ at all times to reduce strain on the engine?

Cruising without accelerating, on a level road, 1500 RPMs is fine, IMO. Once coming to a hill or trying to accelerate, I want my RPMs at 2500 or above. All engines are different, so this is a ballpark for the 5VZ.

ETA: I have no e-brake right now, so any hill starts are done quickly, or I need to 3-foot it. Don't worry about that until you can easily engage/disengage the parking brake for a hill start. Press the button on the e-brake lever, crank it up, slowly increase the RPMs while easing off on the clutch, at the same time lowering the e-brake. Try it first on a hill with nobody behind you, or do it on level-ish ground in a parking lot.

I completely know what you mean about being worried about clutch wear! I was right there with you, but don't worry too much. My first driving/learning experience was in a manual. I continued to drive that car to 220,000 miles and sold it without replacing the clutch. Second car sold at 170k miles, original clutch. Most recently sold a car that I owned for 100k miles, original clutch. I now own a motorcycle with 28k, sportscar with 56k, a Civic with 193k, and 4Runner that I have only put 1k miles on. I have never, in my life, replaced a clutch on any vehicle. I have done plenty of aggressive driving and "launches" from a dead-stop. Use the clutch with a little respect, but don't be afraid to use it for what it is meant

ETA2: I always rev-match when downshifting. If I'm rolling above 5 mph, I will double-clutch to get it into first gear. Don't worry about double-clutching, but also don't force it into first gear if you are not completely stopped. Do worry about rev-matching on the downshift, but no issue on the up-shift.

 

[02SE]

That is good information to hear because I often try to cruise at about 1000 to 1500 RPM. But I guess I should shoot for 1500+ at all times to reduce strain on the engine?

See below.

Cruising without accelerating, on a level road, 1500 RPMs is fine, IMO.

This is just fine to do. Light throttle on a level road in a high gear at a low 'ish 1500 RPM is no problem.

A good rule of thumb is if the truck will accelerate easily when given more throttle, it's not putting any undo strain on the engine (the rod bearings in particular). If the truck struggles to accelerate when given more throttle, then you know you need to shift down to a lower gear.

 

[adkinsadam1]

What gear to I put it into when I'm coming out of a turn at 5mph? I can't put it in first, because it won't let me, and second is too high.

 

[JMunn55]

I've owned 2 vehicles, both manual. I always rev match downshifting, heel-and-toe braking. That way, you're in a gear so you can accelerate, be easier on brakes, and be easy on the clutch.
I always start more on the clutch than gas, keep revs real low until clutch is all the way out. Easy on clutch that way. Even when starting on a hill I do this. Practice makes perfect.
If I'm idling, I'm usually in neutral. Easier on leg and throwout bearing.