Clutch master cylinder problems.
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My 5spd 4runner has never had a problem, but my friend has gone through 3. 2 cheapos and now he has a toyota one in it. It is lasting longer but i think its going to happen again to him. I am interested to find out if anyone else has this problem or has ever fixed it. His is a 96 and the throw of the clutch pedal seems so short compared to mine which is a 2000.
cordrayj1
New member
how cheap? i got mine from rock auto and its been working great. i also replaced the slave at the same time though (slave was aisin, master was a: AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Q56311 Clutch Master Cylinder
Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty $ 26.79)
no problems w mine yet . . . did it at 214k back in december. now i have almost 226k. so we shall see...
PitbullRescuer
New member
Funny you posted this now. My '97 has a "weak" either slave or master cylinder. I have to pull the pedal back up with my foot after I shift. I haven't looked at it yet, I have a lot of projects going on. LOL. But I think I may just grab new parts and call it a day.
cordrayj1
New member
slave.
climb under and have someone push on the clutch, you will notice when the slave doesnt go back to its original position.
PitbullRescuer
New member
Cool, thanks. Just ordered one (Aisin) from RockAuto.com
loneshepherd
Member
Yes, I am aware this thread is over a decade old. I would have started a thread if there weren't a prerequired amount of replies to have said permission.
I am trying to find more information about this failure, or any ideas. I have gone through two aftermarket and one OEM clutch master cylinder so far.
I also have very low engagement. I have to have maxed out the rod piston on the clutch master to the point where there are very few threads. If there are any reasonable amount of threads inserted into the pedal fork, I cannot even get in gear.
I just had all the stuff below changed at a shop outside vegas one month ago. Below are a list of parts I had purchased from marlin crawler. I provided these parts to the shop, in addition ( not shown on the invoice ), I also provided a rear main seal, the clutch fork, pressure plate and the clutch itself which were all OEM.
I was pretty disappointed when I got my car back and it was shifting like crud still, they had told me on the phone it was shifting great. Im not sure in what world engagement right off the floor is great. Either way, now the clutch master is broke again and I'm in the same boat as always, just 1k in labor poorer.
I have emailed the shop and not received and answer yet. Im at my wits end and literally just want to enjoy dailying my 5 speed without being left stranded every 90 miles when my clutch master breaks again. If anyone has any suggestions on what could be happening please chime in.
I am trying to find more information about this failure, or any ideas. I have gone through two aftermarket and one OEM clutch master cylinder so far.
I also have very low engagement. I have to have maxed out the rod piston on the clutch master to the point where there are very few threads. If there are any reasonable amount of threads inserted into the pedal fork, I cannot even get in gear.
I just had all the stuff below changed at a shop outside vegas one month ago. Below are a list of parts I had purchased from marlin crawler. I provided these parts to the shop, in addition ( not shown on the invoice ), I also provided a rear main seal, the clutch fork, pressure plate and the clutch itself which were all OEM.
I was pretty disappointed when I got my car back and it was shifting like crud still, they had told me on the phone it was shifting great. Im not sure in what world engagement right off the floor is great. Either way, now the clutch master is broke again and I'm in the same boat as always, just 1k in labor poorer.
I have emailed the shop and not received and answer yet. Im at my wits end and literally just want to enjoy dailying my 5 speed without being left stranded every 90 miles when my clutch master breaks again. If anyone has any suggestions on what could be happening please chime in.
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phattyduck
Elite Member
Is this a factory 5-speed truck or a swap? I see a dealer part number sticker on that clutch pedal bracket...
Also, has it ever been right (engagement point, I mean)? Was it a gradual change or a sudden change? Associated with any other work?
-Charlie
Also, has it ever been right (engagement point, I mean)? Was it a gradual change or a sudden change? Associated with any other work?
-Charlie
Pyral
Member
I've replaced the clutch master cylinder and the clutch pedal bracket like you (I had fitment issues with that clutch bracket btw). I never had an issue with a Toyota clutch master cylinder, even the one I replaced was still working fine.
The clutch system is hydraulic like your brakes, and it sounds to me they haven't been bleeding them right because that is exactly what happens when done incorrectly.
Before taking it back, bleed it yourself. It's easy and doesn't require many special tools apart from some clear tubing you can get anywhere.
The clutch system is hydraulic like your brakes, and it sounds to me they haven't been bleeding them right because that is exactly what happens when done incorrectly.
Before taking it back, bleed it yourself. It's easy and doesn't require many special tools apart from some clear tubing you can get anywhere.
If you have the adjustment all the way out, it's possible you are pushing the piston in some with the pedal all the way up. At some point, when the piston is pushed in, it will cover up the hole leading the the fluid reservoir, and it can't 'pump up' at this point.
Might not be your issue, and you'd certianly notice this if you were trying to bleed it and no fluid was coming out.
Might not be your issue, and you'd certianly notice this if you were trying to bleed it and no fluid was coming out.
loneshepherd
Member
That is a good question, you had me doubting for a moment. The door jam label does say R150F.
I have had it for a few years hoping to build it out and daily drive it at the same time. But the first two masters broke within 100 miles, and then I parked it and started using my 97 4runner instead. I finally had a shop change all the aforementioned parts, and they also said it was necessary to change the clutch master a slave.
I will try and bleed it myself on my next day off and report back. Though if they didn't bleed it right I'd be worried about what else they didn't do right heh. This clutch bracket was on the truck when I bought it, and as Charlie noticed it has the sticker, so that means its been replaced already? I wonder if previous owners have been trying to solve this issue for along time
Its not all the way out anymore, I'd say four or five turns in? I did a hackjob to be able to drive the truck currently - flipped the fork upside down so it is bending downwards, and then put a slim punch on top of the bracket, and a metal zip-tie going around the two. It keeps it from bending for now :dance:
Its disgusting, I know, but I need to drive my truck :sobbing:
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phattyduck
Elite Member
Just making sure. That part can get worn out if the spring bushings wear out and aren't replaced in time.
Looks like the clevis end is new too - I had one of those go bad on my (highly modified) '89 Camry. That one had a rubber isolator in there that collapsed from long term use and a heavy pressure plate. Make sure that part is in good shape. I just had mine "repaired" by welding it solid... (not sure if the 4Runner might have the same issue)
You really need to set that clevis/rod so that the master cylinder is fully 'relaxed' when the pedal is at the top of its travel. Maybe something got set wrong when the bracket was replaced (upper stop position, etc.). Forcing the master cylinder to over-travel would probably do bad things to it quickly. Check the FSM specs for pedal height, free play, etc. to see if there is anything to adjust.
-Charlie
TucsonMike
Member
I have two 4runners with manual trans. Never experienced the issues u have had. I do have a suggestion. Is it possible the place that did the job put the clutch disk in the wrong direction? It's a common mistake, especially if u have the v6 motor. I believe if u put the clutch disk in wrong it could cause the issue u r experiencing with early engagement, but not positive. Hopefully some one that has made that mistake can chime it. Im wondering with that pushrod extended like that if the piston is bottoming out in cylinder and causing the pushrod to bend? I would bleed the system first like others have suggested and go from there. Good luck. MikeM
Mine did that a few years ago. I initially thought slave cylinder and replaced it. Slightly improved, but then it did it again. Replaced the master and it was fine.
I think both had just gotten old and gunked up and a little stiff, enough to hold the pedal down once past that breakover point.
I was a bit dumbfounded when it first happened. Sitting at a light, went to go, lifted my foot off the pedal and... nothing. Lol.
I wonder how often that happens. FWIW the clutch disc goes in 'backwards' compared to the overwhelming vast majority of other cars.
loneshepherd
Member
I did bleed it myself to no avail. I am unsure if they could have put the disk in backwards or not, I would really hope someone wouldn't make that mistake. The shop advertises on their website that they do offroad builds also. :toilet:
Anyway, I drove it 60 miles back to the shop, they said they are putting in "a highly upgraded luk master cylinder that will be better for the setup that you have".
I don't know what this means, but I guess I will report back once I get the truck back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far.
I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth already as I asked them to save all the parts they replaced, and I didn't get those back, they also claimed the shifter seats I provided were the wrong ones ( I got white and blue from marlin crawler ), and they are nowhere to be found, the clutch fork I provided wasn't installed and also not returned to me.
Saying something like that worries me because it seems like the probability of installing it wrong is extremely high if they haven't worked on a 3rd gen 4r before.
After reading your guys' input it seems to be that if I still have engagement issues once I get it back from the shop, I should really just pull the trans myself and investigate the work that was done. I really wish I had just done it myself from the get-go. Long story there though.
It's back at the shop now, I imagine they are going to have to readjust things when they put the new master cylinder in. Fingers crossed, will report back if the nightmare is over or not in a few days ( Im not feeling very optimistic though )
Anyway, I drove it 60 miles back to the shop, they said they are putting in "a highly upgraded luk master cylinder that will be better for the setup that you have".
I don't know what this means, but I guess I will report back once I get the truck back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far.
I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth already as I asked them to save all the parts they replaced, and I didn't get those back, they also claimed the shifter seats I provided were the wrong ones ( I got white and blue from marlin crawler ), and they are nowhere to be found, the clutch fork I provided wasn't installed and also not returned to me.
Saying something like that worries me because it seems like the probability of installing it wrong is extremely high if they haven't worked on a 3rd gen 4r before.
After reading your guys' input it seems to be that if I still have engagement issues once I get it back from the shop, I should really just pull the trans myself and investigate the work that was done. I really wish I had just done it myself from the get-go. Long story there though.
Just making sure. That part can get worn out if the spring bushings wear out and aren't replaced in time.
Looks like the clevis end is new too - I had one of those go bad on my (highly modified) '89 Camry. That one had a rubber isolator in there that collapsed from long term use and a heavy pressure plate. Make sure that part is in good shape. I just had mine "repaired" by welding it solid... (not sure if the 4Runner might have the same issue)
You really need to set that clevis/rod so that the master cylinder is fully 'relaxed' when the pedal is at the top of its travel. Maybe something got set wrong when the bracket was replaced (upper stop position, etc.). Forcing the master cylinder to over-travel would probably do bad things to it quickly. Check the FSM specs for pedal height, free play, etc. to see if there is anything to adjust.
-Charlie
It's back at the shop now, I imagine they are going to have to readjust things when they put the new master cylinder in. Fingers crossed, will report back if the nightmare is over or not in a few days ( Im not feeling very optimistic though )
TucsonMike
Member
U should google putting in clutch disk wrong and see what the symptoms are and see if it applies to ur situation. If ur issue isn't fixed when get truck back, I can measure the fork placement with pedal pushed in and out on both of mine so u can compare it to yours. I can take pictures Good luck and hopefully that is the issue.
MikeM
MikeM
loneshepherd
Member
Hi guys, I wanted to follow-up, unfortunately there isn't much to say. I got the truck back from the shop, the clutch master cylinder has since failed again (it lasted about 220 miles this time). This car is my daily driver so I have jerry-rigged it the same way as before with a post and metal zip-tie.
The news isn't great, but as this is my only sort of running vehicle now, I won't be able to drop the transmission soon to see what is really going on (and what really happened at that shop)
Thanks for all the tips and info and I'll follow up once I am able to check it out further!
On the bright side I emailed the shop and asked for a refund, they didn't put up a fight and although I haven't received it yet, they did agree to the refund. At least there is that.
The news isn't great, but as this is my only sort of running vehicle now, I won't be able to drop the transmission soon to see what is really going on (and what really happened at that shop)
Thanks for all the tips and info and I'll follow up once I am able to check it out further!
On the bright side I emailed the shop and asked for a refund, they didn't put up a fight and although I haven't received it yet, they did agree to the refund. At least there is that.
Sparky 97Runner
New member
This sounds frustrating. I do believe that a halfway decent mechanic should have been able to figure this one out.
Also, take up [MENTION=646369]TucsonMike[/MENTION] post #18 for pics and measurements. This would be hugely beneficial for troubleshooting this.
Lastly and as a temporary fix, you could use a rod coupling and short piece of threaded rod from ACE or McMaster-Carr to buy yourself a little time. Just as a temp fix.
^^^^^Can you easily get it in gear if you double pump the clutch? Carefully check the entire clutch line and hose for pin hole leaks. Should be bone dry.^^^^^
Also, take up [MENTION=646369]TucsonMike[/MENTION] post #18 for pics and measurements. This would be hugely beneficial for troubleshooting this.
Lastly and as a temporary fix, you could use a rod coupling and short piece of threaded rod from ACE or McMaster-Carr to buy yourself a little time. Just as a temp fix.
