Crap! Oil Sludge

smallfry

smallfry

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If anyone has seen the last part of my build thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/104230-whiteknight-build-smallfrys-rebuild-14.html you'd notice that I've post up about my 4runner blowing blue smoke every so often (about 4 or 5 times in the past 8 months) but ran fine otherwise.

Monday, I got a call from the shop manager that the valve seals are bad well when they tore into the engine they were meet with a little surprise:

This is the photo that I was sent while at work.


:wow2:

I've seen this on V6 models of 4th gen Toyota Camry's but not a 4runner. After work I went on down to the shop to talk with them about the issue and grab a few more photo's.

Head 1:


Head 2:






Clogged oil port (there was one that was basically completely clogged)


After seeing all this crap all I want to do was :bolt: or grab a gun and put my 4runner down.

The techs were surprised that my 4runner ran as well as it did despite all this sludge build up. Gotta love Toyota.

Tomorrow they are going to tear into the bottom end to see if that has any sludge build up.

Needless, to say my 4runner will now have a rebuilt engine in it. I wonder if I could talk them into a V8 swap via Singtoe's build.
 
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smallfry said:
Sadly, it is. I'm in a small town and despite being here for almost 9 months now I haven't found a mechanic that I like/trust.

Trust me it was the last place I wanted to go.
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My 2 cents ..

Stop all work. Stop the bill clock. Tow it home.

Start looking for a donor engine. That amount of sludge run for that long.... No way is that worth dumping $4-5K into rebuilding that engine.
 
Wow! That is some nastiness. Sorry to hear the bad news!

Curious however where about in Wyoming you are? I'm in Northern Colorado but my In law's live in Cheyenne and have a ranch in Farson, my sister is in Laramie.
 
There was a guy on YT years ago that had sludge that was much worse (I know it wont make things better), he and a buddy cleaned it out and it ran well for years.

I'd try to find a used engine, but being in a small town I know your options are limited.

I have a SO borescope (worth while investment) that I take with me when friends invite me to look at used cars. I cannot recall the number of PCV and oil fill holes I have looked through and seen sludge build-up much worse than the OPs. The amount of neglect that some folks subject theirs autos to is nothing short of bewildering.
 
LittleCaesar said:
Here you go. It may give you some ideas....
Oil Sludge Monster Attacks!! - YotaTech Forums
Click to expand...

That YT post always gives me the willies. I wouldn't call it game over on the heads alone, but it would make the question the prior maintenance on that engine. I would probably pull the engine and drop the oil pan and take a peek (either way that thing should come out for investigation or a core). Either way, I am curious as to what the rest of it looks like.

I love the rest of your build, smallfry - lots of good work on that rig!
 
BrianSD_42 said:
My 2 cents ..

Stop all work. Stop the bill clock. Tow it home.

Start looking for a donor engine. That amount of sludge run for that long.... No way is that worth dumping $4-5K into rebuilding that engine.
Click to expand...

Wish, I could. I don't have the knowledge or tools to do this kind of engine work. I live in a small town so my opinions are kind of limited. Plus it's my only vehicle so I need it working soon.

EatonKyleH said:
Curious however where about in Wyoming you are? I'm in Northern Colorado but my In law's live in Cheyenne and have a ranch in Farson, my sister is in Laramie.
Click to expand...

Sheridan.

LittleCaesar said:
Here you go. It may give you some ideas....
Oil Sludge Monster Attacks!! - YotaTech Forums
Click to expand...

I saw that thread way back when it was first posted. Ya, that's worse than mine.


On a side note oil changes where done every 3000 miles and 5w-30 was the oil. 182k on my 4runner.
 
smallfry said:
On a side note oil changes where done every 3000 miles and 5w-30 was the oil. 182k on my 4runner.
Click to expand...

Seriously? 3K OCI and you got that? I assume that does not go back to Day 1. No way the engine looks like that if 3k OCI was done since it was new even at 182k. Some PO went YEARS without changing the oil.
 
I am agreeing with Durk on this one that there is no way the top of that engine looks the way it does with 3k mile oil changes unless one used a non API rated dino oil and/or it was driven 3 miles a day without the oil really ever getting up to temp.

If some has indeed changed the oil at least 60 times in this 4runner's life, then they possibly may have had a cleaner upper engine by using synthetic oil.

Good luck and keep the updates coming.

This post reminds me that I need to get my seals replaced sometime soon.
 
Small fry. You need to stop all work.

I had a similar issue with my doner V8. It must have been owned by a doctor because the oil was never changed.

75k miles and it looked like this.


My truck was smoking bad on start up. Very bad. Enough to smoke out a parking lot.

I had bad valve seals.

I Replaced the valve seals. and cleaned the sludge out by hand.



But if I had to do it all over. I would have used Seafoam and desludged the engine first. Using several oil changes.

First ,one whole bottle for 30 minutes of light driving around the block.
Second, one whole bottle for 200 miles.
Third , one whole bottle for 500 miles.

Forth oil change, 1/3 bottle for 3k miles and repeat.

FWIW, My engine does not smoke anymore and there is no oil consumption.

I have been using seafoam and I can see through the oil fill opening that the dark varnish is getting gradually lighter and lighter.
 
TheDurk said:
Seriously? 3K OCI and you got that? I assume that does not go back to Day 1. No way the engine looks like that if 3k OCI was done since it was new even at 182k. Some PO went YEARS without changing the oil.
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Yep.

Well, I'm the 5th owner of this 4runner. So somewhere along the line I'm assuming oil changes weren't done regular bases.
 
Wish, I could. I don't have the knowledge or tools to do this kind of engine work. I live in a small town so my opinions are kind of limited. Plus it's my only vehicle so I need it working soon.
Click to expand...

Dude there are alternatives. You can usually rent a cheap @ss car for a few hundred per month.

Paying a dealer to rebuild a probably shot engine, and I assume it will cost $4-$5k when all is said and done since they are tearing apart the top and bottom end .... Is not optimal to say the least.

You can buy a donor wreck with a good engine for $1500-$2000 or just buy a low mileage import engine that was never rebuild for $2500. You can pay someone to do the engine swap for probably less than a $1000 and you would have a much better engine with less cash spent.
 
These came off of a older Avalon
qyhy5a9e.jpg
ezyryby6.jpg
 
This is why I run nothing but 100% synthetic oil.

If I were you when you get the engine rebuilt I would run it for about 250 miles, do an oil change, then another 500 miles on regular petroleum oil to break it in then start using 100% synthetic changed in under 7500 miles or 1 year which ever comes first.
Then you will never have to worry about sludge, unless you just never change your oil.

Not sure about the 4Runner engines, but in my wifes Lexus this is exactly what it would look like on petroleum oil if we changed the oil every 3000 miles.
Problem with some Toyota engines is that the top end gets so hot that it literally cooks that thin layer of petroleum oil that is left over as it drains down after you stop and shut off engine and it just keeps layering on.
 
Nunyabiz said:
This is why I run nothing but 100% synthetic oil.

If I were you when you get the engine rebuilt I would run it for about 250 miles, do an oil change, then another 500 miles on regular petroleum oil to break it in then start using 100% synthetic changed in under 7500 miles or 1 year which ever comes first.
Then you will never have to worry about sludge, unless you just never change your oil.

Not sure about the 4Runner engines, but in my wifes Lexus this is exactly what it would look like on petroleum oil if we changed the oil every 3000 miles.
Problem with some Toyota engines is that the top end gets so hot that it literally cooks that thin layer of petroleum oil that is left over as it drains down after you stop and shut off engine and it just keeps layering on.
Click to expand...

hate to break it to ya, but synthetic oil can sludge too.
 
I agree with other people here - you're gonna spend a small fortune on the truck trying to clean it up. Could you at least source your own engine and have the shop install it? I think that'd be much cheaper than having them clean this one. I'm sure you'd be able to sell the old one to re-coup some of the money too.


Singtoe said:
First ,one whole bottle for 30 minutes of light driving around the block.
Second, one whole bottle for 200 miles.
Third , one whole bottle for 500 miles.

Forth oil change, 1/3 bottle for 3k miles and repeat.

FWIW, My engine does not smoke anymore and there is no oil consumption.

I have been using seafoam and I can see through the oil fill opening that the dark varnish is getting gradually lighter and lighter.
Click to expand...


Singtoe - are you putting the seafoam in the oil? Are you putting in half a quart less oil when you do this as well?
 
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