Crawford Eco Block

[Quirt]

Quick question for Quirt.

I mentioned before that I have a strong tuning background... but I have been out of it for about 10 years.... and never worked on a factory Toyota setup for obvious reasons (yes, you suck Toyota). The fact that we are on a thread about tricking the ECU into giving us a scrap of improvement says it all. They are in the dark ages.

So when you trick to MAF into reading less air, it is going to be mitigated by the fuel trims. Initially, the STFT will be high and those will eventually move to LTFT. But, your timing and other maps will stick to their slightly lower load values. WOT is not going to get its own fuel trim (since the narrowband sensor is useless at WOT), but it should pick up the fuel trim of the highest load (non WOT) cell. In the end, the underlying benefit of this product is more aggressive spark timing (and maybe some VVT activation - although it seems like it would just delay it). I never really dealt with VVT.

The part about WOT is what concerns me the most, The ECU will have no way to adjust out any drastic lean condition on the top end.

So my question is.. Have you hooked up a WB to any of the 1GRFE dual VVTi rigs and seen what type of AF ratio they are hitting at the top end with your device installed... How does this change between initial install vs some time to learn the LTFTs.

Sorry, missed this one

You are correct about the short and long term trims during closed loop but when the ECU goes to open loop it fully ignores the closed loop table and just runs off the base fuel table.

There will be no drastic lean condition on the top end while running off the stock map or with our EB installed. The factory tune is quite rich while in open loop all the way through the RPM range and our EB does not make a large change to that.

So to answer your question, I have not hooked up a wide band o2 sensor to one of the trucks yet so I cannot tell you exactly what the actual AFR is. That said, I started tuning vehicles in 1994 and have a sound knowledge base on how the manufactures tune their vehicles.
Many members on this site and the TW site have posted the AFR's from their trucks at WOT and they are exactly in line with what I expect to see.

Good questions

 

[wfo9]

Sorry, missed this one

You are correct about the short and long term trims during closed loop but when the ECU goes to open loop it fully ignores the closed loop table and just runs off the base fuel table.

There will be no drastic lean condition on the top end while running off the stock map or with our EB installed. The factory tune is quite rich while in open loop all the way through the RPM range and our EB does not make a large change to that.

So to answer your question, I have not hooked up a wide band o2 sensor to one of the trucks yet so I cannot tell you exactly what the actual AFR is. That said, I started tuning vehicles in 1994 and have a sound knowledge base on how the manufactures tune their vehicles.
Many members on this site and the TW site have posted the AFR's from their trucks at WOT and they are exactly in line with what I expect to see.

Good questions

Are you sure about the WOT not having any long term fuel trims. I remember several that would use an average or just the highest load cell as a WOT fuel trim. The target AFR obviously drops into the 12s at WOT, but it would still attempt to trim it. Another thing that would sometimes get in the way was cat overtemp protection. Can't remember what the triggers were because I would mostly just turn it off since none of the cars ran cats or were just not concerned with them lasting... I do remember it kicking in as soon as things started leaning out though. Then again, these were all 500+ rwhp setups. The MAFs were often maxed out.... I'm sure higher capacity ones exist today with all the big power boosted factory motors coming out of GM and Ford...


Another trick people used before modern tuning software (back in the dark ages) was either a MAF translator or an IAT translator. These are basically electronic versions of this device. The IAT is a real easy one to trick and get more timing advance..

I think it is plausible this thing could add a little MPG and power. There is obviously some risk to long term reliability... probably nothing major. Not sure if the risk is worth the reward, though. Curious to see what the results are.

 

[ManhstuhT4R]

I want one lol

 

[Quirt]

I want one lol

We have a discount code for this group if you are interested

 

[Quirt]

To late,i will see you tomorrow around 10:00 :lmao:

Well... no dyno graph for the group today

Our dyno was having attitude in the beginning, but the main issue was the RedSled having an automatic gearbox. There is no way for us to lock it in high gear so we could get a clean run without the trany downshifting during the test run.

We need to test a truck with a standard gearbox to get a proper dyno run.

 

[Jetboy]

4runners only come in automatic... and the Taco has a different engine. So does the manual version of the FJ Cruiser.

I don't think a manual version is likely to be found in the USA.

 

[Quirt]

4runners only come in automatic... and the Taco has a different engine. So does the manual version of the FJ Cruiser.

I don't think a manual version is likely to be found in the USA.

Seriously? that sucks

 

[Quirt]

So there are more than one 4L engines used in these vehicles?

 

[Randyman...]

So there are more than one 4L engines used in these vehicles?

Single vs. Dual VVTi was the only main difference IIRC (all 5th gen T4R's use the Dual VVTi with the 5-Spd Auto)...

(not to mention the 4-Cylinder 2010 5th gens :caked: )

 

[Quirt]

Single vs. Dual VVTi was the only main difference IIRC (all 5th gen T4R's use the Dual VVTi with the 5-Spd Auto)...

(not to mention the 4-Cylinder 2010 5th gens :caked: )

Do the later model autos have the option to lock them in 4th or 5th gear?

 

[JeremyB]

Do the later model autos have the option to lock them in 4th or 5th gear?

Nein. Closest engine w/manual to the one in the 5th Gen 4Runner is the FJ cruiser.

 

[m85476585]

You could probably hack the transmission and manually power the solenoids for the gear you want. But it would be a lot of work to do it safely and without confusing the ECU. Probably not practical.

You can set the shifter to 1 and it will stay in first gear. In some vehicles, setting the shifter to 2 will let you launch in 2 and basically lock in the gear, but I don't know if the 4runner works that way, or if 2 will select from either 1 or 2.

Another problem you will have is the torque converter, which is not always locked. It eats some power when it's unlocked, and there's no good way to manually lock it (except hacking the transmission, mentioned above). I think it's always unlocked in 1 or 2, which may be bad if you were to try to test in one of those gears.

Manual FJs can be found in the US (I know someone who has one), but they are probably uncommon.

I believe FJs are also fulltime 4wd, and I'm not sure if that would work with your dyno or affect the results since 4wd has some additional friction loss. It should at least let you compare with/without mods.

 

[Quirt]

You could probably hack the transmission and manually power the solenoids for the gear you want. But it would be a lot of work to do it safely and without confusing the ECU. Probably not practical.

You can set the shifter to 1 and it will stay in first gear. In some vehicles, setting the shifter to 2 will let you launch in 2 and basically lock in the gear, but I don't know if the 4runner works that way, or if 2 will select from either 1 or 2.

Another problem you will have is the torque converter, which is not always locked. It eats some power when it's unlocked, and there's no good way to manually lock it (except hacking the transmission, mentioned above). I think it's always unlocked in 1 or 2, which may be bad if you were to try to test in one of those gears.

Manual FJs can be found in the US (I know someone who has one), but they are probably uncommon.

I believe FJs are also fulltime 4wd, and I'm not sure if that would work with your dyno or affect the results since 4wd has some additional friction loss. It should at least let you compare with/without mods.

Yea, I have hacked the transmission connector on other cars to lock the solenoid for a particular gear but do not choose to do this on a customers vehicle that is nice enough to offer it for dyno runs.

Using a lower gear than 1 to 1 will make the power readings false which is also not an option for us.

I called a buddy with an FJ, but he sold it last month

We have an AWD Dynapack Dyno so that is not an issue.

I think it's time to call in a favor from Toyota of Escondido... see what they have for us to use as a dyno mule

 

[Saker]

Manual FJs can be found in the US (I know someone who has one), but they are probably uncommon.

I believe FJs are also fulltime 4wd.......

Actually, manual FJ's are very common here in the US!
Also, FJ's are not fullltime 4WD! See my sig.

 

[96r50]

Actually, manual FJ's are very common here in the US!
Also, FJ's are not fullltime 4WD! See my sig.

Manual FJ Cruisers are fulltime 4WD.

 

[Saker]

Manual FJ Cruisers are fulltime 4WD.

I should have stated all FJ's are not fulltime 4WD! Stand corrected!
Also, I think it is only the 6MT that is FT4WD

 

[Jetboy]

So there are more than one 4L engines used in these vehicles?

Yep. Unfortunately at least 3 versions that I know of. The Tacoma doesn't have dual VVTI and the FJ cruiser has dual VVTi, but a different tune. It's probably close, but it's a 260hp factory tune vs the 270hp tune for the 4runner. Why? I have no idea. The FJ can be had with a manual, and with a locking center diff, you could just disconnect the front drive shaft and run on a rear wheel dyno. I think that's the closest you'll get in the USA.

 

[Quirt]

Yep. Unfortunately at least 3 versions that I know of. The Tacoma doesn't have dual VVTI and the FJ cruiser has dual VVTi, but a different tune. It's probably close, but it's a 260hp factory tune vs the 270hp tune for the 4runner. Why? I have no idea. The FJ can be had with a manual, and with a locking center diff, you could just disconnect the front drive shaft and run on a rear wheel dyno. I think that's the closest you'll get in the USA.

Not a problem, we have an all wheel drive dyno... just need to purchase another set of adapters for the front

 

[diverscale]

We still haven't solved the problem raised by this ''Patent'' user (totally laughed at the user name created to fit with the only one post it will write with it lol), earlier, that stated that the Ecoblock ''patent'' was not a patent as we know it... some sort of false advertising...?

 

[Quirt]

We still haven't solved the problem raised by this ''Patent'' user (totally laughed at the user name created to fit with the only one post it will write with it lol), earlier, that stated that the Ecoblock ''patent'' was not a patent as we know it... some sort of false advertising...?

Solved the problem?

What is the problem and how would you like me to solve it? I'm a bit lost, sorry.