Cruise Moab - trip pics and 5th gen thoughts

[Jetboy]

Went down to Cruise Moab last weekend. Didn't get to bring my FJ40. Just didn't have an extra 24hrs of driving time to run up and get it. So I took my pretty stock ish 15 TEP.

My general thoughts were that it did fantastic. I ran Poison Spider Mesa, Hell's Revenge, and Fins and Things. I also did Kane Creek on my own and left through the Shafer trail on my way home. Poison Spider is the hardest of the trails. I ran with Marlin from Marlin Crawler and the guys from Frontrange Offroad / Diamond Axle. And one day with All-Pro in black betty. Super nice guys from all the shops. Frontrange was doing some testing on a new front IFS assembly. I agreed not to disclose much about it until it's on the market - but it's sick! The basics are an 8" diff with 30 spline CVs and crazy clearance. 16+" through the center. And it held up without any issues in the rocks... on 40's!! Maybe IFS is viable afterall?

Nitro Gear sent a couple land cruisers including their 200 series with 35's. It was too pristine to really let it loose yet, but it did great on hell's revenge.

As far as the 5th gen goes - it was my first real shakedown of the GX460 air springs. I LOVE them! No issues whatsoever with them and they flex well, ride great, and the adjustable height is perfect for the long rear overhang of the 5th gen.
The only issue I had was that my trusty MV50 compressor finally failed me. It wouldn't hard start against the pressure in the air springs and wouldn't pump beyond about 60psi, so I had to use air from another source. Then it finally just quit working. I have one of the original MV50's - they are much better internally than the new ones. Mine has the proper reed valves in the head not the piston. The failure was in the motor not the compressor head. I think the brushes may have melted or something when it failed to start and got hot. Not sure.

I drug the rear bumper a few times, but with careful driving it wasn't bad at all. I only had to take one bypass on Poison Spider where I just couldn't get off the ledge with my departure angle.

The Toyo AT2s hooked up really well in the rocks. I've been kinda negative on them generally, but they work just fine for Moab trails. I ran them at 16-18psi. A few places I got up to breakover points and had to warm them up a bit to get over. Always fun to roast 4 tires a little bit! Once they're hot they stick. Tipover challenge was one place I struggled a bit, but with a good spotter and just enough bump at the top I got through without getting tippy.

The rear locker plus atrack in rock mode worked well most of the time. Crawl control was great for just pointing and letting it do the work. Places like the easy bathtub on hell's revenge were super easy with crawl control. Especially if you wanted to let a novice drive it would make live a lot easier for a first timer. I was just playing with it, but found it really useful in the really bumpy stiff just for being lazy. It maintains a steady speed that's hard to do in an automatic transmission and keeps the ride very stable and not jerky.

KDSS is of course a thing of beauty. Maintains body composure very well. We need to figure out a home brew long travel version. Basically a custom set of cylinders for KDSS to increase travel, or even better a dual KDSS system so both sides move using 4 cylinders.

I didn't break anything. I did crush my new skid into the exhaust just enough that it rattles at idle. I built it with only maybe 2mm of clearance so it didn't move a lot, but just enough. As a low rider I hit it hard - like really hard - twice. Many times I skidded along on it. Held up as good as I could have expected. I'll trim the rub point.

Those are my generally 5th gen related thoughts. For those who might be curious a mostly stock (probably a totally stock one too) 5th gen is perfectly capable of making clean runs on hells revenge and poison spider mesa including most of the obstacles. No it probably won't do the escalator, but yes the waterfalls, mickey's challenge, tipover challenge, and similar are do-able with good lines.

I did see a fews broken cvs. One UZJ100 snapped a front CV on Golden Spike. That makes me concerned for getting too heavy. He is only running 285s and wasn't being stupid. Just doing a climb on 3 wheels with a front locker and it let go. I think a trail spare is going to be a necessity with the OEM CVs.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=dHRpZm1GckVDYmstVnh3eklJdE1rbGR1U251Vzln

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Stock 2016 LC200 off the showroom floor. Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.
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[Jetboy]

I want that IFS setup. They also have a rear bolt in 9.5" housing for the 5th gen so you can run a LC diff. They are much stronger. And keeping the outers and stock axles means you still retain all the ABS function, Atrac, etc.

 

[STX4Runner]

It's fun to go to Moab in a lightly modded late model 4Runner and hit trails and see nothing but Jeeps on 35"+ tires with huge lifts. As someone said, if you're in a highly built up Jeep or whatever and can't make it up an obstacle it makes you as the driver look bad. If you're in a mild looking vehicle (like a 4Runner) and make it, it makes you look like a good driver because you got a mild vehicle up the obstacle, and if you don't make it it doesn't matter because no one expected you to anyway.

 

[wfo9]

Good info. 5th gens are decent out of the box, but not so sure about 100% stock.... Just a small lift and a little more tire makes a world of difference.


On a related note. I went to an event last weekend called wheelers for the wounded... It's basically a jeep event to benefit veterans. They show up as guests and we take them out on the trails for a day of fun. Probably 300+ jeeps.

I was in my trail rig and obviously opted for the "wild" trails. It was split between mild and wild groups. A friend of mine was there in his 5th gen (setup similar to mine) and I suggested he not attempt the "wild" trails but he did it anyway...LOL. They were not technically that difficult, but the narrow off camber nature and many trees leaning into the trail made body damage probable on such a bulky tall rig. Surprisingly, he made it through without much body damage. He did get his rear bumper tagged pretty good and I think one of his door handles took a hard hit on a tree... And his skids took a beating... It was a 2014 trail with stock bumpers, 285 duratracks, sliders, ICON lift with LT in the rear.... The jeep guys were shocked that he made it or even attempted it. I'm surprised he did not get more body damage myself. I scraped my cage a few times that day and my little truck is pretty narrow and nimble.

I can say that jeep guys seems to wheel with a very different style. They break a lot of stuff, but it's pretty obvious why. Lots of throttle with very little spotting or time spent looking for the right line or why they are hung up.

 

[rochmpr]

Good info. 5th gens are decent out of the box, but not so sure about 100% stock.... Just a small lift and a little more tire makes a world of difference.


On a related note. I went to an event last weekend called wheelers for the wounded... It's basically a jeep event to benefit veterans. They show up as guests and we take them out on the trails for a day of fun. Probably 300+ jeeps.

I was in my trail rig and obviously opted for the "wild" trails. It was split between mild and wild groups. A friend of mine was there in his 5th gen (setup similar to mine) and I suggested he not attempt the "wild" trails but he did it anyway...LOL. They were not technically that difficult, but the narrow off camber nature and many trees leaning into the trail made body damage probable on such a bulky tall rig. Surprisingly, he made it through without much body damage. He did get his rear bumper tagged pretty good and I think one of his door handles took a hard hit on a tree... And his skids took a beating... It was a 2014 trail with stock bumpers, 285 duratracks, sliders, ICON lift with LT in the rear.... The jeep guys were shocked that he made it or even attempted it. I'm surprised he did not get more body damage myself. I scraped my cage a few times that day and my little truck is pretty narrow and nimble.

I can say that jeep guys seems to wheel with a very different style. They break a lot of stuff, but it's pretty obvious why. Lots of throttle with very little spotting or time spent looking for the right line or why they are hung up.

Typical Jeeper goes something like this;

Seriously?

 

[Dark Lord]

Type Jeeper goes something like this;

Seriously?

[emoji44] Wow.... That's an easy way to die, or seriously injure yourself.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[bimrunner]

Typical Jeeper goes something like this;

Seriously?

And they sit around laughing at a guy who is so dumb he almost killed himself. That is literally my observation of many of the "jeepers." Obviously they aren't all that dumb, but there are more than a few...:trophy:

 

[Jetboy]

I think this is my all time fav. Poor video quality but hilarious.

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[Danimal]

Awesome report and great pics and videos. I am having fun with my mostly stock 4Runner vs. modifying it heavily like I did with my last one.

What size tires? I seem to recall that you were running 285s Toyos. And any lift? Looks like you have some lift at least in the front. Longer travel shocks? I dig the hidden winch.

Dan

 

[cctt]

I think this is my all time fav. Poor video quality but hilarious.

first, great report and video

second...that hummer video, wtf!! hope the dog in the back was okay after the tip. Stupid owner!

 

[DannyLlama]

Great post ! Thank you for sharing.
Remind me again, are you running P metric tires?

 

[Jetboy]

To answer a few questions. My suspension is an odd combo. Front are Fox 2.5's. I cranked them up for the trip. I turned each side 12 revolutions, which is about .75" so it's probably 1.5" high in the front over stock. I usually keep the front at the absolute lowest setting - basically stock. The rear is air springs so it's adjustable anywhere from maybe -2"(can't drive like that, it bottoms out badly) all the way up to the shock limits. I could put air in the system and lift until both sides are at the droop limit, so I'd guess that's around +8" of lift? But again it would ride terribly. The realistic useable rear lift is 0-4". I had it set at about +3" for the trail. I get a firm ride, bumper clearance, and full articulation up and down at that level. I normally set it around +1.5 for highway cruising. I have oem rear shocks. I liked them pre-air spring. Now I want something firmer. Not sure what yet.

The tires are P285/70/17 Toyo AT2s. I wasn't anywhere that I would test the durability. Moab trails where I was are all rounded rocks, so I can't say they are really "tough". I did puncture one the first day in the dirt when I bought them on a small sharp rock directly in the middle of the tread.

 

[Ray Dunakin]

Great report, and that photo is awesome! Looks like a full-spread ad in a magazine.

 

[Jeremy556]

Pics of the IFS on 40s?

I run locked 34" MTRs, and while I try to be careful with them - when I get stuck, I sometimes find myself with a locked front axle at full steering lock, full droop, spinning tires until they heat up enough to hook up. So far (knock on wood) I haven't broken anything and to date, I have never heard of a broken front OEM CV from a 5th gen 4runner or 2010+ FJC. So, I consider myself somewhat of an IFS believer, but holding up to 40" tires seems excessive.

 

[SixthSnail]

I'm hoping to go to moab next year. Hopefully the rig will be ready!

 

[wfo9]

Pics of the IFS on 40s?

I run locked 34" MTRs, and while I try to be careful with them - when I get stuck, I sometimes find myself with a locked front axle at full steering lock, full droop, spinning tires until they heat up enough to hook up. So far (knock on wood) I haven't broken anything and to date, I have never heard of a broken front OEM CV from a 5th gen 4runner or 2010+ FJC. So, I consider myself somewhat of an IFS believer, but holding up to 40" tires seems excessive.

Same thing happens to me at times... Steering has a way of getting away from you when locked and spinning.... It's not a good feeling. I start listening for that dreaded pop... but I have also been lucky (I guess).

 

[Bighead2001]

I'm hoping to go to moab next year. Hopefully the rig will be ready!

You don't need a huge build to enjoy Moab. Just use common sense in trail selection.

 

[SixthSnail]

You don't need a huge build to enjoy Moab. Just use common sense in trail selection.

I don't need a huge build anywhere. I WANT a huge build lol. But yeah I'll go as long as I have the time off work and can make the 10 hour drive.

 

[Jetboy]

Pics of the IFS on 40s?

I run locked 34" MTRs, and while I try to be careful with them - when I get stuck, I sometimes find myself with a locked front axle at full steering lock, full droop, spinning tires until they heat up enough to hook up. So far (knock on wood) I haven't broken anything and to date, I have never heard of a broken front OEM CV from a 5th gen 4runner or 2010+ FJC. So, I consider myself somewhat of an IFS believer, but holding up to 40" tires seems excessive.

There's a few things about the kit that they don't want out in public yet while they're still testing it, so I agreed not to disclose some parts of it. The Joints of course are bigger than any of the normal aftermarket control arm stuff. The axles are 30 spline CVs that appear possibly to be something like a longfield joint with a special boot. Kinda like RCV axles. RCV will warranty them up to 40" tires. It's also running an 8" clamshell diff in a 3rd gen - so the bigger diff in a lighter vehicle. I don't know a ton else about it. It appears to bolt into the OEM bracketry without any drop brackets and the diff is not centered like a pure long travel might do. So it probably uses the full stock diff and ADD setup.

 

[Gone2vegas]

Great pics and report! I've been going to Moab for over 10 years to mountain bike and now can't wait to go in a 4runner.