CV angles

[BlairB]

I'll research them both more thuroughly before I make the purchase, however, so far the Shrockworks look MUCH better, and are the most popular choice over on 120.



Haha, no worries, and with how fast I change things, I have personal experience with just about every method. :bigok:

And yes, I forgot about skid plates, you just reminded me of those. Those will be with the rest of the armor such as sliders and the bumper.

Psh I am the one who needs the skids haha, the underside of my t4r is not looking too pretty.

Going to hit 15,000 miles in the next day or two, and it should be interesting when I get the 15k service b/c as I remember they need to remove the skid to get at some of the things and who knows if they will even be able to put it back on with how mangled it is

Oops. :bash:

 

[rook]

Get an ARB bumper over shrock

I dont know about that. Both are quality products, so it comes down to personal preference. See this post for the pro's and cons of each.

Reason #9 is, imo the major difference. I can pick up the phone and speak with the owner. Try that with ARB

 

[Thai]

Josh, what is the purpose of your rig??
To look cool??
To be off-road capable??
To be durable??
To be comfortable (aka not just a dedicated trail rig)??
To be the best at everything??

You need to sit down and decide what path you're gonna take. That CV angle does look a bit too much for my untrained eyes.

Remember, it does not take extreme mods to make the 4runner extremely capable. You need to prioritized your modifications and to know what you need/want as an end product.

In case you're interested, i would suggest adding an ARB rear locker to your wishlist. Remember, with all the armor and bumpers you're planning to add, your 4runner will weigh quite a bit and your fuel economy will probably be no better than my G (or worst!!).

From reading what you wrote in this thread, i am not clear on what direction you're going toward. Spend your money wisely...and sorry if i sound like an old fart!

 

[BlairB]

I dont know about that. Both are quality products, so it comes down to personal preference. See this post for the pro's and cons of each.

Reason #9 is, imo the major difference. I can pick up the phone and speak with the owner. Try that with ARB

I agree with rook and love the shrockworks bumper, the arb is just too squared and just doesn't fit the lines in my eyes

 

[Falls]

Psh I am the one who needs the skids haha, the underside of my t4r is not looking too pretty.

Going to hit 15,000 miles in the next day or two, and it should be interesting when I get the 15k service b/c as I remember they need to remove the skid to get at some of the things and who knows if they will even be able to put it back on with how mangled it is

Oops. :bash:

I know the feeling , my skids are beat up , but really actually surprised at the protection they have given for stock skids.

 

[Falls]

Josh, what is the purpose of your rig??
To look cool??
To be off-road capable??
To be durable??
To be comfortable (aka not just a dedicated trail rig)??
To be the best at everything??

You need to sit down and decide what path you're gonna take. That CV angle does look a bit too much for my untrained eyes.

Remember, it does not take extreme mods to make the 4runner extremely capable. You need to prioritized your modifications and to know what you need/want as an end product.

In case you're interested, i would suggest adding an ARB rear locker to your wishlist. Remember, with all the armor and bumpers you're planning to add, your 4runner will weigh quite a bit and your fuel economy will probably be no better than my G (or worst!!).

From reading what you wrote in this thread, i am not clear on what direction you're going toward. Spend your money wisely...and sorry if i sound like an old fart!

Very good points

 

[BlairB]

I know the feeling , my skids are beat up , but really actually surprised at the protection they have given for stock skids.

Yeah they have really done a great job but I had a slightly unreassuring experience in my friends fj.

We were driving in Mojave and he came up to a section a bit too fast and came down on a rock very hard and hit the 4wd solenoid underneath so hard that it was cracked and we lost our 4wd (making it out was very interesting)

 

[Falls]

Yeah they have really done a great job but I had a slightly unreassuring experience in my friends fj.

We were driving in Mojave and he came up to a section a bit too fast and came down on a rock very hard and hit the 4wd solenoid underneath so hard that it was cracked and we lost our 4wd (making it out was very interesting)

OUCH !!!

 

[HB 4X4]

Thai,
Original modifications were to look good. Hence the spacer lifts, and the other countless, useless mods I have done, and removed.

I have now taken up offroading as a frequent hobby with one of my good buds Blair, so I am starting to put better parts on. I now have about the same lift with the CO setup as I did with the 3/2 cornfed, as I adjusted it today. The CV's are probably still not at the angle they should be, however, it's better to not have spacers accomplishing this.

My near future modifications are minor protection modifications such as sliders, skids, etc. Bumpers, winches, dual batteries, and so on, are for much further down the road when I get more serious, possibly around when I buy a second vehicle, maybe a 5th Gen?

I have already prioritized, thanks to the guys over at 120. That is why I went with Coilovers now, so I can just make adjustments when the time comes, instead of needing a whole new setup to support added weight.

 

[Thai]

Bumpers, winches, dual batteries, and so on, are for much further down the road when I get more serious, possibly around when I buy a second vehicle, maybe a 5th Gen?

So, this 4th gen 4runner of yours will be a trailer queen (aka dedicated trail rig)??

If you want to take it off-road and make your 4runner more capable SIGNIFICANTLY, then you better have a rear locker as your future mod. In fact, with you doing so much off-roading these days, the rear locker should be at the top of your list long time ago...hell, i would have added the rear locker way before installing a skyhigh lift! It is the one mod that will make your 4runner significantly better off-road, more than a lift. I see it too often where everyone jumps on the "lift wagon" and then get disappointed when they get stuck.

I am happy that you're getting into the off-roading sport...but, you're going at it the wrong way IMHO. (Remember, this is ONLY my opinion.) From what i see, you're going for the badass look rather than examining what will make your 4runner truly badass off-road. There is a difference in the two paths. For ME, truly badass off-road also means maintaining adequate durability and reliability because it would totally suck if i got stuck in the middle of nowhere due to a broken modified part. Badass off-road also means taking your 4runner to the next level of capability.

You have an off-roading trip coming up? I would be DAMN SURE that either YOU or SOMEONE on the trip know who to repair a blown CV boot. I would AVOID doing the difficult stuff for now. Your truck has more clearance for sure, but it is NOT that much more capable than a stock 4runner from the showroom floor. And frankly, at this time, your 4runner is more fragile than a stock one. So, be careful.

Don't get me wrong, i think that your lift is a nice one (if you ever get the CV and everything OK), but you need to focus on what will take your 4runner to the next level, not what will make your 4runner look badass at the local mall. I assume that you are financially well off to plan for all of these mods in the near future...if not, then you need to re-prioritized ASAP!

Good luck Josh.

 

[chronicanomaly]

Just wondering, but how do folks like AlexJet and ChaosEdition, who have 6 inch+ lifts, I believe, not have constantly torn CV boots?

Just from putting the 2.5 inch on mine, I have already had one torn once and leaking another time because of the increased angle.

 

[Thai]

Just wondering, but how do folks like AlexJet and ChaosEdition, who have 6 inch+ lifts, I believe, not have constantly torn CV boots?

Just from putting the 2.5 inch on mine, I have already had one torn once and leaking another time because of the increased angle.

I think that they drop their front diff to decrease the extreme CV angle.

 

[HB 4X4]

You can get a diff drop for around $30-$35 I believe. As for making it a dedicated trail rig, not while it's my daily driver.

As for the lift, again, I adjusted it, so it is no longer at 4". The shop did that without my permission, so please refrain from acting like I want the highest truck in CA. Then after it settles, I will make the final adjustments.

You are correct, I am financially capable of all of these modifications, but I have been opening a few $3k minimum and $10k minimum compound interest accounts, to save up for a $50k minimum account so I have been taking the modifications slower than I technically could. I'd rather have millions of dollars saved up when I retire than a few fast mods now. $10K invested by 20, and never touched again will reach at least $750,000 by age 59. The more you add, the higher that number gets. So you can do the math with $50k+ by age 20.

What's a CV boot cost? Odds of it "blowing out" are slim this weekend, especially since the lift will have only been on for a week, and will be doing the majority of it's settling. It will probably be another .5" lower at least.

 

[Falls]

Josh , NO OFFENSE intended , but I think for a daily driver this is to much ( just my opinion ) I love how it looks and you've done a nice job with it. If I was going to do that and set it up for off road the lockers rear and possible a front would be my first choice would have been my pick .

Remember with all this lift your rear axle is the same clearance as mine with only the 265/70/17's.

I'm a mild lift guy if at all I personally thought you should have left it at the 2/1 spacer.

I think doing what you have ,you have put yourself in a situation of reliability issues on or off road.

This is just my opinion , I'm not knocking you or the truck at all.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Josh,
Damn, I wish at 20 (or even today) I had your head for money. Good for you :bigok:

I don't know what ChaosEdition or AlexJet did but I do know the $35 diff drop makes a significant difference in the 3rd gen Runners but only a tiny difference in 4th gens. For $35 I would consider it if I had it all apart for something else (front locker ) Why is it so effective on 3rd gens and not 4th? I don't know but I've read a few threads on it and wanted to pass it along so you'd know to investigate more...


:cheers:

 

[HB 4X4]

Josh , NO OFFENSE intended , but I think for a daily driver this is to much ( just my opinion ) I love how it looks and you've done a nice job with it. If I was going to do that and set it up for off road the lockers rear and possible a front would be my first choice would have been my pick .

Remember with all this lift your rear axle is the same clearance as mine with only the 265/70/17's.

I'm a mild lift guy if at all I personally thought you should have left it at the 2/1 spacer.

I think doing what you have ,you have put yourself in a situation of reliability issues on or off road.

This is just my opinion , I'm not knocking you or the truck at all.

Mike,
This is meant with no offense intended as well...

I have adjusted what the shop did, and it is now about the same as the 3/2 I had on it before, which lasted through many rough offroading trips, and I really beat the hell out of it at times since the spacers cannot handle whoops in the desert going anything faster than 5mph. (meaning I nosed it a few times because of crappy suspension parts making me bottom out.)

Can one of you explain how it is different to have a better suspension set to roughly 3/2 than is it to have a chunk of metal on top of my stock coils (spacer lift) providing the same 3/2 of lift? If I get the same clearance, same lift, same everything, with the only changed factor being superior ride quality, then what makes this a "death trap" as you and Thai have suggested?

CJ3Flyr,
Thanks, I was pushed into it by my step father because he juggles about 9 of these $50k minimum, and $100k minimum accounts which have all tripled or more, so he just works at the ER now to make spending cash while he sits comfortably on his assets. He always laughs about how many millions he would have if he started at 19-20 like I am now, instead of waiting until he was in his 40's. :bigok:

 

[rook]

Just wondering, but how do folks like AlexJet and ChaosEdition, who have 6 inch+ lifts, I believe, not have constantly torn CV boots?

Just from putting the 2.5 inch on mine, I have already had one torn once and leaking another time because of the increased angle.

You're talking about two very modified suspensions.

Alex has a custom front setup and a body lift (I think). Im not exactly sure what he did, but I am sure it is a combination of parts from several mfr's.
Lance has Total Chaos long travel and 1.5" body lift. New LCA's opens up options for modding CV angles.

Lance has posted here regarding CV angles and to him it is not the main concern for lifted trucks in the 3" range. The major failure on 4th Gen's are the diff brackets. Several have failed on the trails causing extensive damage! See Expat on 120 or Air2Air on FJcruisers fourm. The solution is to buy new ones and have them partially boxed, as they have an I-beam type construction to them, for reinforcement.

Diff drops don't do much, this is because the drop brackets merely put the diff at a different angle rather than dropping it.

Here is a post from Good Times from a while back.

Originally posted by Good Times
CV angles on 4th gens... not even comparable to 3rd gen. we can easily go 3" of lift with ZERO* issues.

*the only issue you'll experience are a few squirts of lube coming out of the crappy hose clamps (easily replaceable with better hose clamps - literally - highly recommended if you encounter squirting). squirting of lube happens so don't freak out like you broke something. just repack if you squirted too much otherwise just tighten clamp and call it a day. wow this sounds pretty darn perverted lol.

note that when you lift your vehicle, your cv angle changes but it's nothing new for your suspension. even under stock suspension when it cycles and encounters the same angles as lifted. the only diff is the neutal standing position changes. think about this one and it'll make sense. so fear nothing you'll be fine. i will agree that "ideal" scenario to ensure durability and long life on your cv's is basically not to let it cycle and stay horizontal. Unfortunately that just won't happen. You enter a driveway, make a hard turn, or even abruptly stop, the suspension cycles and the angles of your cv will change. Excessive wear comes from the extreme angles it's subject to (on the lower and upper end) but this happens because it's a suspension part. don't forget that when you full lock (turn) you're at the extreme angles of the cv joint too so it doesn't necessarily have to be up/down but front/back. if the extreme angles were not designed to be sustained the designers would have lessened the angles so don't worry too much about em as they're unlikely to fall apart even under some harsh conditions.

note 2.. the chances of someone breaking these axles (front) are slim to nil on the trails. Unless you're attempting to drive it like you stole it on the rocks I doubt (seriously) that you'll break it. You'll prob break something else first. the axles are plenty beefy that it'll support really large tires (we're talking beyond 35" tires) so don't sweat about breaking your axles. the physics and the math says it won't happen.

note 3.. tacoma/fj share same suspension geometry. some minimal changes in parts (tie rod, swaybar) but otherwise pretty much the same front end. Hence the universal lift applications for the 4runner/fj/tacoma.

6. whether you modify your vehicle or not things break. this happens because you abuse your truck. (abuse = taking it off some beaten path where your suspension cycles more than on the pavement). this means get used to it! it happens. to avoid this be prepared and research a lot and learn how to repair your own vehicle. this is your best insurance policy cuz there's no way AAA will be out there in the middle of nothing to help ya out (well unless you flash a bunch of benji's). simple hand tools, fsm (factory service manual) and some spare parts can go a long way.

7. go out and have fun life's too short to get all scared and call it quits after a few boo boo's. it happens and it's all part of the fun. well until gas gets too expensive but still... go out and explore! so much land to conquer.

 

[Thai]

Ahhh...thanks rook. Didn't Air2Air also have the fender crack issue??

 

[HB 4X4]

Thanks rook, appreciate the info.

 

[rook]

Ahhh...thanks rook. Didn't Air2Air also have the fender crack issue??

not an issue as much as inflicted damage... that is what triggered the major buildup. as he puts it, he forgot about a set of whoops leaving an offroad trip, took to the air and "got a good look at the western us". when he came down, he drove the tires into the inner fenders.

Its a completely different machine now, and thats an understatement.

http://lh3.google.com/picklesandjames/RqJmAZCT-ZI/AAAAAAAAErM/FAHqFlu72CY/s800/mockup_2.jpg