Dealers not doing billed maintenance

[LandCruiser]

We all know dealers often do a shit job of things like oil changes, brake jobs, diff services, etc, but how often do they bill us and NOT do the job they said they did.

Recently when I started to do my 120k maintenance flushes on my 2013 TE, I noticed some things that made me pause (I farmed out the spark plug job, but have been doing my fluids myself--when I have the chance).

I paid a dealer in CO to change the front and rear diffs at 90k, but at 120k, the front diff looked like trash, completely foul compared to the rear. Did they actually do it?

I was told they did a "cabin and engine filter change" with every oil change but the cabin filter was filthy and disintegrated in my hands when I took it out. Engine air filter was no bueno as well, but less crappy.

The PS fluid also looked like shit, I was told it was flushed at 60k because "it looked dark." I didn't realize how bad THAT was until I changed it out and saw how clear it's SUPPOSED to be.

...

Not saying that the dealer didn't necessarily do all these services and my vehicle just saw EXTREME use, but these things gave me some concern... especially now that I have a big FLAT driveway I can work in.

 

[grizzlypath]

I think it'll be hard to provide a blanket statement for all dealerships in this case. Without being able to actively watch the maintenance take place, the only way I can think would be to verify in some way before/after by checking.

Differentials you could conceivably open the fill port and see if you can get some oil out to see if it looks fresh. Filters you can check yourself. Hopefully they're at least doing engine oil.

Typically those that bring their vehicle in for service somewhere don't have the time/interest in doing it themselves, and would therefore not do the above checks.

Honestly it'd hard to say. If anyone provides first hand experience it has to be caveated with the fact that it was at that/those locations.

"Only Siths deal with absolutes." -Abraham Lincoln

 

[LandCruiser]

I think it'll be hard to provide a blanket statement for all dealerships in this case. Without being able to actively watch the maintenance take place, the only way I can think would be to verify in some way before/after by checking.

Differentials you could conceivably open the fill port and see if you can get some oil out to see if it looks fresh. Filters you can check yourself. Hopefully they're at least doing engine oil.

Typically those that bring their vehicle in for service somewhere don't have the time/interest in doing it themselves, and would therefore not do the above checks.

Honestly it'd hard to say. If anyone provides first hand experience it has to be caveated with the fact that it was at that/those locations.

"Only Siths deal with absolutes." -Abraham Lincoln

That's the problem, I wasn't able to verify until recently. But now that I have been doing flushes myself I'm beginning to wonder how many service jobs I was billed for but weren't done... and that's the problem if you can't easily check the fluids like the oil dipstick or clear reservoirs under the hood.

 

[Muff Muff]

It's pretty common knowledge that they don't do easily billable things that can't be easily verified by the customer. Oil change can be checked with the dipstick, but the filter can't easily be checked, so they'll usually skimp on that. Transmission fluid can be "checked" easily just by shift feel. Differentials, not so much. These services are usually very high margin, and if they can get away with not actually providing the service and depleting their inventory of fluids/parts, it's free money for them.

Hell, I took a previous car I had to a Jiffy Lube (I know) for an oil change once, which was supposed to come with a window cleaning and vacuum. I watched them do the entire service sans window cleaning/vacuum, and when the tech handed me my keys back, I informed them that my windows hadn't been cleaned and the car hadn't been vacuumed. "We don't clean windows if it's raining," is what they told me, even though it wasn't raining, it was just cloudy. I told them I paid for the entire service, and I wanted it done. Anything the get the car in the bay out of it as quickly as possible, and get the next one in.

 

[1000MPH]

Watch a few videos on YouTube from Petr on the Toyota-Maintenance channel and you will see how common it is. He posted a recent inspection video that would be very helpful to people in your boat...and he didn’t even have time to get under the car.
Toyota Tacoma detailed inspection - YouTube

 

[A10MileHusker]

I think the best option for you to be certain they performed the work, and more importantly to show them that you are watching, is putting marks on the items they are supposed to be doing. If you are paying for an oil change, mark the filter and drain plug with a paint pen and that way you know if it's been touched.

This reminds me when Jiffy Lube, and other like companies, were targeted with people putting hidden cameras throughout their cars and caught them not performing many tasks. It forced them putting practices in place to ensure the work was being done.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

In my experience, maint-related work is where this sort of thing goes on the most.

Anyone who takes their vehicle to a dealer for maint-related work is an easy target. In many cases the dealership has convinced the buyer that only they can work on your vehicle. People who buy into this rarely have a clue how a car works, let alone know how to pop a hood and check work that's in plain sight.

When I was still working, several of my co-workers used dealerships. After returning from the dealership I would suggest that we go out in the parking lot and pop the hood.

- dirty oil on the stick - Tranny fluid as well
- Dirty air filter/etc.
- Marked tires not rotated/etc/etc

This didn't happen once in awhile. It was commonplace.

Do you think they really changed plugs and adjusted valves...things that are not readily accessible for owner view?

On other forums, I've read comments by service writers claiming the trash bins in their shops are full of new parts at the end of each day.

This problem is not limited to Toyota. It goes on in domestic and European shops as well.

Because of this and the over abundance of incompetent workmanship in repair shops, I started wrenching many years ago.

 

[JeuTheIdit]

I was in the same situation as you when doing a bunch of fluid changes at 100k with my 2013 TE. Before that it was fully dealer maintained, and I really did not know any better at the time. Looking back at the records I do not think I had a problem with them charging me for a service they simply did not do, they just never even told me something needed to be done other than the simple items like fluid level (never quality), suspension checks, brake checks, oil, and filters.

My differentials, transfer case, power steering, tranny, and brake fluid was pretty bad when I changed them. Coolant seemed fine but I specifically asked to get it flushed at 60k, will need another flush soon. The driveshaft was obviously never greased. Plenty of missing or broken bolts for plastic covers and skid plates. The first time I change the oil myself, it was a bit** to get the filter cover off because the dealer over torqued it.

Ultimately it was my ignorance to just not check anything before it was serviced and trust the dealer to do everything that was needed. IMO everyone should not have to be a friggen entry level mechanic and check everything themselves, nor have to worry about the dealer missing critical maintenance items. There might be better dealers out there, but a standard needs to be set across the board. I know better now, and am doing all maintenance myself for this vehicle and my wifes brand new forester.

 

[ragin_cajun]

[MENTION=92049]LandCruiser[/MENTION] - Is this one of the metro dealers?

 

[LandCruiser]

[MENTION=92049]LandCruiser[/MENTION] - Is this one of the metro dealers?

The diff and PS service was in Ft. Collins, the other work was done at both of the dealers in CO Springs, including brake fluid and t-case.

About the only thing that had been RELIABLY done as asked was the oil changes, but you can look at the dipstick and see for yourself.

 

[Tafm6]

My only thoughts against doing it myself is the lifetime power train warranty the dealer offers. I dont know what the chances are of a major failure on my 4runner but that's what worries me

 

[LandCruiser]

My only thoughts against doing it myself is the lifetime power train warranty the dealer offers. I dont know what the chances are of a major failure on my 4runner but that's what worries me

Have you ever looked into those warranties and what they encompass?

Many are just scams to get you to do all your maintenance at the dealership of purchase and gouge you for all the "optional" services in your maint handbook, or do "heavy use" maintenance items even if you don't live in a harsh climate or your vehicle shows no signs of heavy use.

 

[badattitude]

They bill for services not performed. A general manager at Smart Motors Toyota in Madison got fired for fraud about 5-10 years ago. Personally, they billed me for an exhaust that was not replaced. I had to convince the service advisor the old exhaust was still on the 4runner at pick up. He actually said I was mistaken until I brought him out to look for himself. They also changed 5 of the 6 spark plugs, just did not bother with the difficult one behind the steering wheel (3rd gen). So yes, dealers bill for services not performed. Like you said, the oil change included a chassis lubrication. They never touched the grease fittings. When I asked about them, they did it but acted like I was weird for wanting to lube the propeller shaft and u joints.

I paid for a valve cover gasket that was either not done at all or failed in a year. I think they literally just changed the gasket, Didn't fix the leak by using FIPG on the the half moons. Didn't clean anything that would show if it still leaked. Idiots.


And they also used non Toyota parts. When I had trailer harness repaired. Charged me $$ for Toyota parts and actually used a crap universal trailer harness from AutoZone. Buy tools, watch YouTube, DIY. 4runners are still fairly easy to work on.

 

[LandCruiser]

They bill for services not performed. A general manager at Smart Motors Toyota in Madison got fired for fraud about 5-10 years ago. Personally, they billed me for an exhaust that was not replaced. I had to convince the service advisor the old exhaust was still on the 4runner at pick up. He actually said I was mistaken until I brought him out to look for himself. They also changed 5 of the 6 spark plugs, just did not bother with the difficult one behind the steering wheel (3rd gen). So yes, dealers bill for services not performed. Like you said, the oil change included a chassis lubrication. They never touched the grease fittings. When I asked about them, they did it but acted like I was weird for wanting to lube the propeller shaft and u joints.

I paid for a valve cover gasket that was either not done at all or failed in a year. I think they literally just changed the gasket, Didn't fix the leak by using FIPG on the the half moons. Didn't clean anything that would show if it still leaked. Idiots.


And they also used non Toyota parts. When I had trailer harness repaired. Charged me $$ for Toyota parts and actually used a crap universal trailer harness from AutoZone. Buy tools, watch YouTube, DIY. 4runners are still fairly easy to work on.

If you lube zerks, there's a chance excess grease may leak out (normal).

When I inquired why it wasn't done as specified, they said "customers complain when a little grease leaks out of the prop shaft zerks and ruins their driveway, so we prefer not to do it."

I just do it myself now, guess what--dry as a damn bone when I did it the first time.

 

[JeuTheIdit]

If you lube zerks, there's a chance excess grease may leak out (normal).

When I inquired why it wasn't done as specified, they said "customers complain when a little grease leaks out of the prop shaft zerks and ruins their driveway, so we prefer not to do it."

I just do it myself now, guess what--dry as a damn bone when I did it the first time.

LOL I really wanna say that is just a BS excuse to not grease the shafts... But if it has any truth to it that is really sad. Some people have no clue.

I doubt a little grease ruins a driveway. I could not tell anyone how much fluid/grease has been spilled on mine and it gets washed off after a while.

 

[ragin_cajun]

The diff and PS service was in Ft. Collins, the other work was done at both of the dealers in CO Springs, including brake fluid and t-case.

About the only thing that had been RELIABLY done as asked was the oil changes, but you can look at the dipstick and see for yourself.

No surprise on the Ft. Collins dealer, I don't trust them on anything... One of the worst Toyota dealerships I've ever seen.

 

[DougR]

... Like you said, the oil change included a chassis lubrication. They never touched the grease fittings ...

At Camelback Toyota, the service department categorizes the 4Runner as a car, not a truck. Oil change, check fluid levels and rotate tires for a car does not include chassis greasing. I would have to specify lube service for a truck, which then includes chassis greasing, and it costs an extra $100.

 

[DougR]

I think the best option for you to be certain they performed the work, and more importantly to show them that you are watching, is putting marks on the items they are supposed to be doing ...

Last year, I wanted to verify the oil filter was changed, so I marked two (2) of the 10mm bolts with nail polish on the plastic splash guard in front of the skid plate and then proceeded to get an oil and filter change. After service it is obvious the 10mm bolts were not turned so I spoke with the shop foreman. He said they only remove the four (4) 12mm bolts on the skid plate and let it drop down. This means the plastic splash guard undergoes repeated flexing. At home, I wondered if the oil filter was changed. I lowered the skid plate and observed where oil had run down across the skid plate from the filter to the back edge and it was wiped clean.

 

[enyce]

Worked for a corporate repair shop for 10 years and there are plenty of billed repairs not performed by mechanics. One of the many reasons why I perform most of my 4runners repairs with exception of tires and NYSI. You have to find an honest shop with honest mechanics and keep them honest. Make sure they complete repairs and thank them for doing so.

 

[CSM4runner]

Damn...I've had all my scheduled maintenance done at toyota and now you've got me questioning whether they're actually doing it.