DESPERATELY NEED HELP! WONT START (long story/brief explanation)

[RyanH]

Have two cars both are down, I need some help fellas...
2002 SR5 3.4 4WD, 225000mi, but in great mechanical shape otherwise.

I was out of town for work, wife calls, it died just after leaving home.

Turns out the oil filter backed off and dropped the oil on the ground. The system protected itself and shut the motor off before any damage was done.

I got home found the filter situation, resolved that filled the oil, but it won't start
The turnover sounds entirely normal, no abnormal sounds from the engine.

It has spark, (though the plugs are dry after cycling the engine to start it) plenty of fuel at the rail, compression, all the belts turn as desired, all fuses check normal... I think the computer has shut the injectors down or something like that.

Everything appears otherwise perfectly normal. Can someone help me understand how to correct this?

--We have no way to get to work in the morning.

 

[the great him]

pull the efi fuse for 15 min... that should reset the computer if it is the computer that locked things out.


that being said i have never heard of our trucks having a fail safe with the oil system ie low oil presure or low oil level and it shutting the truck down to save the motor. -that is the kinda stuff that has only just recently come to higher end cars like BMW and Mercedes... i think you just have coincidence of issues here and got lucky. -who changed the oil last, id be raising hell with them about the oil filter issue...

 

[RyanH]

Ohh I raised hell with that idiot... I'm not sure how I go about punishing or forgiving that dummy, as the he is actually ME! That said I spun it tight (as hand tight as possible) at the time. Well if there is no system, then I'm good and truly screwed trying to reason out the problem... Damnit. Okay, I in fact picked up a new efi fuse and had the original out for a half hour, so that's not the issue I'm guessing...

 

[JohnsD90]

If you truly think there is no fuel getting to it, spray a little carb cleaner in the throttle body and try to start it, it will turn over if that is the case.

But these trucks have no fail safe if you run out of oil, by the time the light is on you are already screwed.

 

[RyanH]

The lack of fuel being sprayed in the cylinder (on the plugs) appears to be the only issue remaining. I did pull the duct and spray starter fluid, It didn't fire, I checked the timing belt and it appears perfect turns when the engine turns. If the engine was damaged it would be seized or would lack compression neither of which is occurring... I appreciate your quick response bro, I don't have a clue what to look at next... Being flat broke does not help, I can't even call a pro to assist.

 

[JohnsD90]

If you have spark and it won't fire with starting fluid then you don't have compression, unless I'm missing something here.

 

[RyanH]

Crap...

 

[NJshadow93]

Crap...

What about the oil pump? Could the lack of oil possibly fry the pump?

 

[RyanH]

Good question, so after it shut down, I had a buddy go over and refill the oil then try to restart, which it wouldn't, but it did puke up about 2 quarts onto the ground when he turned it over. Plus this morning when I started in on it, I refilled the oil and it pumped a quart onto the ground as I was discovering what was happening. So it looks like the oil pump is intact and pumping copious oil to an acceptable pressure given the volume.

 

[kball]

Sounds like the oil pump is fine. How do you know it has spark? Pull a plug? Test light?

I would think it would fire on starting fluid even without any compression. All it would need is a little spark.

 

[capt.chris]

you have two gaskets on the oil filter? why is it dumping oil?

 

[RyanH]

Agreed, so I pulled the #1 plug and turned it over, had a great spark, on mine the plug access is down through the valve cover, when I put my palm over the hole, I could feel compression as well so that addressed both those questions in my mind.

 

[RyanH]

Chris, the oil filter gasket was torn and out of the groove in one spot, made me think it got pinched when I screwed it on prolly over a period of time the pinched gasket began to fail which permitted movement (my unqualified unprofessional opinion)

 

[the great him]

pull a side of injectors and leave them plugged in and attached to the rail, crank the motor and see if you get fuel out of them...

 

[RyanH]

Thanks Kid, so I can't get the injectors off on a side while remaining connected, prolly my limited skill set. So I located a book on this truck, all roads seemed to lead to one of two possible issues, either the crank sensor or the Throttle Position Sensor, the crank sensor was $70 the TPS is a $#!tload of $$$, so I took a chance, replaced the CS... No help whatsoever. I called a friend who called what I found to be a damn good friend, he brought over one of those 27 million dollar Snap On scopes, ran it and we found the voltage on the TPS registered 15% when fully closed and only 80% when fully open. His opinion was the TPS had operated at less than optimal for some time, finally failing.

Given the fact that I'm not able to run off and pick one up, he offered to have another friend "snatch it" this morning and take it to his shop "to see if there isn't something he could do to help" said we can "worry about parts bills after the fact, but not to lose any sleep, it would be up and running today, and taking this family to work tomorrow, period". So I'm not sure what kind of a favor my buddy called in, but this is "that bro helped me bury the bodies, and I owe him big" levels of commitment.

I gotta tell you guys, if it weren't for guys helping each other through the $#!t we could never survive these times. I really appreciate everyone taking time out of your day to pitch in your ideas and help me get to this point. This is an awesome community, though a noob, I'll be hanging out and participating as often as possible and paying it forward for everyone who comes in needing a hand, or just sharing what I've seen with the guys who found this awesome place before me, I'm proud to be part of something so freaking awesome here, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I'll post the final outcome as soon as we get there!

-RyanH

 

[the great him]

Good luck, it sounds like you have a couple of good friends that are gonna take care of you and get your rig running again -us hard to diagnose issue without seeing the vehicle in person ect. its like being an arm-chair quarterback, you have all the right answers ideally, but in reality its not so easy.

Good luck and let us know what happens

 

[RyanH]

Soooooo "Insufficient compression on 3 of 6 cylinders."

The End:

It's toast guys... Now I'm good and truly screwed... New (used) motor $1-2k depending on mileage, getting to work (20mi) on my KLR in Kansas mid Nov...?
Tomorrow's high, 39 degrees...

Now that's "crisp"... Wish me luck!

Peace

 

[t4r4life]

Soooooo "Insufficient compression on 3 of 6 cylinders."

The End:

It's toast guys... Now I'm good and truly screwed... New (used) motor $1-2k depending on mileage, getting to work (20mi) on my KLR in Kansas mid Nov...?
Tomorrow's high, 39 degrees...

Now that's "crisp"... Wish me luck!

Peace

hey man its build character. lol

 

[kball]

Soooooo "Insufficient compression on 3 of 6 cylinders."

The End:

It's toast guys... Now I'm good and truly screwed... New (used) motor $1-2k depending on mileage, getting to work (20mi) on my KLR in Kansas mid Nov...?
Tomorrow's high, 39 degrees...

Now that's "crisp"... Wish me luck!

Peace

What were the numbers? If 3 still had good compression then there's no reason they should not have been trying to fire on the starting fluid. I don't buy it. Then again there's not a mechanic on this planet I trust haha

 

[the great him]

yeah that still does not explain why it would not start. if thats the case, it should start but just run like crap and throw codes. get compression numbers from the guy... and you can get a new motor for around $800-1500 all day long from a part out, either on craigslist or wrecking yards. should be a day or two of work to pull and plug.

id say swap a motor and call it good if the motor is bad