Destroyed whole front end. SAS time. Have some questions

[REVELC]

So I recently broke my IFS spider gears wheeling in my 98.


Those teeth destroyed the pinion and all that wonderful stuff.


I ended up pulling the CV shafts and driving it like that a few days.

The hubs, rotors, pads, calipers, and bearings got ruined. I have an estimate for about $3,000 to put new brakes all around and fix a few other front end issues.


I found a Dana 44 under an 85 Wagoneer for $300.

I was considering this kit.

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/IFS_Eliminator_Kit_3_/i_0_0_165/_110001-1-KIT.aspx#.VbOk1HMo5nF


I will be having a professional shop do the install but they've never done one on a Toyota.


What other parts would I need to source?


What steering setup do you recommend?

Is this something that can be accomplished in less than 20 hours?

 

[KidVermicious]

That SAS kit sits high. Really high. The Ruffstuff three link kit is half the price and after you get a good set of coilovers it'll have twice the performance.

The D44 is really no stronger than a Toyota 8". It has the advantage of having the diff on the right side for your tcase, but you can't put 5.29s in it and lots of guys find that the front 5.13/rear 5.29 combo isn't any fun at all. If your budget will handle it, what about a taco-width front housing and shafts from Trailgear? You'd still have to source hubs and birfs, but it would be a much better fit with your truck. Stronger than the D44 and all Toyota parts. You can order it set up for links.

Most guys use an early IFS box for steering. There's lots of options for crossover using that box and Toyota knuckles, I don't know what's out there for the D44 knuckles but I'm sure your shop can whip something up. Either way you'll want to plate your frame well where the steering box mounts. Lots of companies make a kit for that, I used the Front Range Offroad kit. Other parts you'll need include a custom driveshaft, and a way to spoof the signal from the missing ABS sensors if you don't want a constant ABS light.

 

[IBallEngineer]

So I recently broke my IFS spider gears wheeling in my 98.


Those teeth destroyed the pinion and all that wonderful stuff.


I ended up pulling the CV shafts and driving it like that a few days.

The hubs, rotors, pads, calipers, and bearings got ruined. I have an estimate for about $3,000 to put new brakes all around and fix a few other front end issues.


I found a Dana 44 under an 85 Wagoneer for $300.

I was considering this kit.

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/IFS_Eliminator_Kit_3_/i_0_0_165/_110001-1-KIT.aspx#.VbOk1HMo5nF


I will be having a professional shop do the install but they've never done one on a Toyota.


What other parts would I need to source?


What steering setup do you recommend?

Is this something that can be accomplished in less than 20 hours?

If three guys worked on it simultaneously and were perfectly choreographed not to interfere with each other, maybe. Otherwise I believe it's more like a 80-100 hour chore. Of course I'm exaggerating a little, but all it takes is one or two problems and the time doubles. You may be able to cut the old set up out, do the welding and installation in close to that time, but actually finishing it, no way. Bolted up is not done in my opinion.

:couch2:

 

[REVELC]

That SAS kit sits high. Really high. The Ruffstuff three link kit is half the price and after you get a good set of coilovers it'll have twice the performance.

The D44 is really no stronger than a Toyota 8". It has the advantage of having the diff on the right side for your tcase, but you can't put 5.29s in it and lots of guys find that the front 5.13/rear 5.29 combo isn't any fun at all. If your budget will handle it, what about a taco-width front housing and shafts from Trailgear? You'd still have to source hubs and birfs, but it would be a much better fit with your truck. Stronger than the D44 and all Toyota parts. You can order it set up for links.

Most guys use an early IFS box for steering. There's lots of options for crossover using that box and Toyota knuckles, I don't know what's out there for the D44 knuckles but I'm sure your shop can whip something up. Either way you'll want to plate your frame well where the steering box mounts. Lots of companies make a kit for that, I used the Front Range Offroad kit. Other parts you'll need include a custom driveshaft, and a way to spoof the signal from the missing ABS sensors if you don't want a constant ABS light.

I'm fine it it has the pre runner look until I get 8 wrap LC coils. It currently has the 3.75" Superflex coils.

Currently it has the Toytec Boss lift.

Could I use the Boss coilovers with a 3 link kit by relocating the frame mounts?


I am working with a $3,400 budget including shop costs.

I found a D44 for $300 from an 85 Wagoneer, that's why I am considering it.

The goal is to have a DD I can romp on.

I will be using 4.88s and have no plans going bigger than 33"s or pizza cutters.

The kit in the link comes with frame stiffeners and are pre-drilled for the IFS box.


The plan is to get it rolling in 2wd and not worry about regearing or custom driveshaft until next spring.


Thanks for the input.

 

[KidVermicious]

Oh god oh dear, that's not a "prerunner" look. That's a "I didn't have enough money to lift the front and rear of my truck at the same time" look, or "I don't know anything about desert racing but I see highlights of the trophy trucks with them squatting in the rear from the torque of their huge acceleration and don't know that they don't always look like that" look, or a "everybody else is doing this look and I don't know why but I want to be cool so I'm going to be a douche and do it too" look. No actual prerunner or race truck runs around with that squat. Please don't do that to your truck on purpose.

But anyway, you can totally reuse your existing coilovers, and you should if you like how they ride. Measure their length at ride height, then set up your links and new mounts so the truck sits where you want it. You might have to lift a little to get the clearance for the solid axle under your oil pan, but definitely not as high as that IFS Eliminator kit will, and you'll save a couple bucks too. You will definitely want to run limit straps because those coilovers won't droop near as far as your new suspension will.

Anyway, it's your truck, but links have a lot of advantages over leafs if they're set up right. Check them out. And if you're never going to run 5.29, the D44 is certainly a good option if you like the price.

 

[02SE]

oh god oh dear, that's not a "prerunner" look. That's a "i didn't have enough money to lift the front and rear of my truck at the same time" look, or "i don't know anything about desert racing but i see highlights of the trophy trucks with them squatting in the rear from the torque of their huge acceleration and don't know that they don't always look like that" look, or a "everybody else is doing this look and i don't know why but i want to be cool so i'm going to be a douche and do it too" look. No actual prerunner or race truck runs around with that squat. Please don't do that to your truck on purpose.

lol.

 

[REVELC]

Oh god oh dear, that's not a "prerunner" look. That's a "I didn't have enough money to lift the front and rear of my truck at the same time" look, or "I don't know anything about desert racing but I see highlights of the trophy trucks with them squatting in the rear from the torque of their huge acceleration and don't know that they don't always look like that" look, or a "everybody else is doing this look and I don't know why but I want to be cool so I'm going to be a douche and do it too" look. No actual prerunner or race truck runs around with that squat. Please don't do that to your truck on purpose.

But anyway, you can totally reuse your existing coilovers, and you should if you like how they ride. Measure their length at ride height, then set up your links and new mounts so the truck sits where you want it. You might have to lift a little to get the clearance for the solid axle under your oil pan, but definitely not as high as that IFS Eliminator kit will, and you'll save a couple bucks too. You will definitely want to run limit straps because those coilovers won't droop near as far as your new suspension will.

Anyway, it's your truck, but links have a lot of advantages over leafs if they're set up right. Check them out. And if you're never going to run 5.29, the D44 is certainly a good option if you like the price.

Come on man, I wanted to put 30 Lightbars on it and a Monster decal job. Brojob Brojob!!!


But seriously, I had no idea it was that drastic. I was going to select their 4" spring kit and thought it would only be off .25" because my rear is already lifted close to that. I figured it would be level with the LC 8 wraps because they are a little taller.

Has anyone done something like that with Toytec coilovers? Or are larger ones necessary?

 

[KidVermicious]

The springs in the kit are rated at 3, 4, or 5 inches of lift, but the shackles are longer than stock and you can add in another 1.5 inches from the hanger you weld onto the front crossbar. Everybody I know who's installed one of those has come in at least 2 inches higher than they expected. There's things you can do to drop that height, like shorten the shackles or french the hangers, but that's a fair bit of extra work.

 

[REVELC]

Holy shit that would have looked dumb.
I am glad you brought that to my attention.



From what I'm reading to do things properly I need about $8,000 to get it set up right for the front axle setup and a matching height rear.

I guess I'll just have to face the music, fix the IFS, and drive it gently until I can afford a proper SAS.

Since the spider gears are trashed I'm going to install a Spartan locker up front. The rear end needs work to so its going to get regeared. I'm thinking a matching set of 4.88s. Currently have 265/75R16 4.10s but will be getting some 33"s soon and it should shine Offroad with 4.88s.

Would that be overgeared with a manual transmission?

The gearing calculator made it look like it the RPMs would be bearable but I don't know what I'm really doing.

 

[UnderFire]

It would be relatively easy to get it back on the road for under a grand with junkyard parts and new brakes.

 

[broken wrench]

The boss coilover can be used, the d44 is plenty strong for 33's. We put a 10 bolt under a t100 w/456's running 35s on street and heavy trail use. Only problem to date was cross pin in auburn locker. It takes less time to do a link kit than full sas for us with 2 guys at it.

 

[REVELC]

The boss coilover can be used, the d44 is plenty strong for 33's. We put a 10 bolt under a t100 w/456's running 35s on street and heavy trail use. Only problem to date was cross pin in auburn locker. It takes less time to do a link kit than full sas for us with 2 guys at it.

What's the difference between a link kit and SAS kit?

 

[4Running Daily]

The boss coilover can be used, the d44 is plenty strong for 33's. We put a 10 bolt under a t100 w/456's running 35s on street and heavy trail use. Only problem to date was cross pin in auburn locker. It takes less time to do a link kit than full sas for us with 2 guys at it.

I disagree. The boss coilover cannot be used, at least very well. I guess theoretically you could weld anything in place, but the toytec coilover is at max a 5.5" travel shock. What the hell is 5.5" of travel going to do you on a solid axle when the shock travel to axle travel ratio is 1:1.

OP, if you can't do any of the work yourself, give a real shop your checkbook. It'll be over $10k easy.

 

[csp]

What's the difference between a link kit and SAS kit?

Using links is one way to install a solid axle using coilovers or coils for the suspension part of it. Links and a panhard bar are used to locate the axle.

SAS kits like the one you linked use leaf springs for suspension and to locate the axle side to side/front to rear.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Using links is one way to install a solid axle using coilovers or coils for the suspension part of it. Links and a panhard bar are used to locate the axle.

SAS kits like the one you linked use leaf springs for suspension and to locate the axle side to side/front to rear.

They are both SAS kits in the end, albeit very different suspension.
[MENTION=82708]broken wrench[/MENTION]. I can't see why it would be any easier to use links over leafs either. I've done both and the leafs are easier, 4 frame attachments and 2 perches, done. Shock mounting is relatively straight forward. Links are at least 3 frame attachments and 3 axle attachments. Setting pinion angle is much more difficult. And then you have the panhard bar, adding two more critical set up points. Coilover installation is critical too, and more difficult than just shocks. Setting up the steering "could" be easier with the links, but not necessarily. The drag link angle should match the panhard bar, not always easily achieved. Assuming the installer has a high steer setup, the leafs don't require specific angles for the drag link.

To the OP, I think you are correct in your realization that you are better served to fix your IFS, at least in the short term.

KIT=4 letter word

:snacker:

 

[REVELC]

They are both SAS kits in the end, albeit very different suspension.

[MENTION=82708]broken wrench[/MENTION]. I can't see why it would be any easier to use links over leafs either. I've done both and the leafs are easier, 4 frame attachments and 2 perches, done. Shock mounting is relatively straight forward. Links are at least 3 frame attachments and 3 axle attachments. Setting pinion angle is much more difficult. And then you have the panhard bar, adding two more critical set up points. Coilover installation is critical too, and more difficult than just shocks. Setting up the steering "could" be easier with the links, but not necessarily. The drag link angle should match the panhard bar, not always easily achieved. Assuming the installer has a high steer setup, the leafs don't require specific angles for the drag link.

To the OP, I think you are correct in your realization that you are better served to fix your IFS, at least in the short term.

KIT=4 letter word

:snacker:

Thanks for clarifying that.

I consider myself a pretty capable wrench Turner with 7 years of diesel mechanic experience but I don't have a shop, plasma cutter, welder, or time right now.

The vehicle is 3 hours away and my wife needs it up and running ASAP.

So Monday I'm ordering the 5.29s and a Spartan locker for the front. Maybe the tundra brake upgrade if the calipers were damaged.

My wife lost brakes completely on the way to the shop.

I'll update with the final outcome.

A friend is going to help me start gathering parts for a proper Toyota SAS.

 

[KidVermicious]

I think that's a good call. You don't want to be going into as SAS on a shoestring if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

 

[the great him]

for $3.5k you will never get a SAS done, even if you do all the work yourself... ask around to the guys who have done it.

your best bet is get all new IFS stuff(buy used) and put it back together. you can get buy all the parts for under $1000 and have money left to do other mods. a well built IFS truck will go 95% of places a SA tuck will. i have run my truck places most SA guys wont even try to take their trucks.

 

[REVELC]

for $3.5k you will never get a SAS done, even if you do all the work yourself... ask around to the guys who have done it.

your best bet is get all new IFS stuff(buy used) and put it back together. you can get buy all the parts for under $1000 and have money left to do other mods. a well built IFS truck will go 95% of places a SA tuck will. i have run my truck places most SA guys wont even try to take their trucks.

Well its not that cheap to fix the IFS parts.

The spider gears, ring and pinion, lower ball joints, both CV shafts, rotors, pads, and wheel bearings are all FUBAR. Might need a new hub too.

The rear also has leaking axle shafts, and needs new wheel cylinders and brakes.

$1,040 for gears and locker from ECGS and the shop quoted $1,940 for everything else. Hence my $3,000 budget.

Ive been able to outwheel a Rubicon and a went everywhere a JKU did on 35"s. I'm sure with the locker up front it will be just fine. I just figured if I could do it for the same money why not?

The 7.5" spider gears are the weak point so now its getting a beefy Spartan locker to match the Aussie in the rear.

I'm not going to regearing twice so I'm regearing the rear to match and will have 5.29s ready to go when I get bigger tires.

I don't think I'll blow it up with 265/75R16s for a few months.

I get a company gas card so mileage is not a concern :bravo:

 

[the great him]

I completely rebuilt my front end for under $3k including poly bushings and a Safari Ltd steering rack... You can get a used diff and loaded spindles -bearings, rotors, calipers etc. for cheap... Wrecking years. Yeah the 7.5 is "weak" but its still stronger than a Dana 35. And putting in a lunchbox locker won't make it stronger. You will need an arb for a stronger front end.