dies shortly after start

[technodrive]

-i have read the other threads on this issue-

99 v6

so i did a timing belt/water pump replacement a few days ago, then drove it over 1300 miles from texas to california, so many dozens of start up cycles. ran fine, except for some power steering squeal from where i spilled PS fluid on the pulley.
so this afternoon i pulled the truck up in my building parking garage to spray some brake cleaner on the PS pulley. after i had sprayed a bit on, i went to start it so the belt would spin over and at that point it did the old 'start up, die in a second or two'.

after doing a quick look around the engine bay to see if anything had come unplugged i went to the forum here and found http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ts-immediate-stall-after-timing-belt-job.html

reading through that, i eventually came to where people make sure the timing belt is on correctly. although when i installed it i (thought i) was careful, im thinking now i could have put the belt on backwards. my question to start this troubleshooting, could i have reasonably driven 1300+ miles with the belt on backwards? i no longer have resources ready resources to do major work

thanks in advance

 

[technodrive]

wasnt trying to jump too far ahead of myself here, but wanted to get that question up asap. tomorrow i will be cleaning the TB, MAF, and IACV

 

[LittleCaesar]

The marks on the belt just act as a guide to help install it, nothing more. So one really cannot put it on backwards. You could check the cam marks in relation to the dampener but if the belt skipped a tooth, you would have seen that problem some time ago.

My guess would be that the fuel pump has died if there are no CELs.

 

[technodrive]

thanks littlecaesar, very good news to hear.
right, no CELs.
ill look into the fuel pump.
also i pulled the maf plug and tried to start, and nothing was different. i assume these go to generic maping without the maf?

the irony is i JUST had my VW GTI do the same thing, and it was the fuel pressure regulator. for reasons unknown i feel thats not the case here

 

[rcrick]

Look at the fuel pump relay also.

 

[LittleCaesar]

+1 with the fuel pump relay.

No clue what the ECU sees without a MAF attached.

My brother years ago took a fishing trip with his buddies in a Ford Explorer from VA to the Keys and back. Worked well for him. Came back and parked the Exploder and the next day no start. After testing the fuel pressure to find none present from the 13 year old pump, a new one was put in and all was good. Your story sounds similar, though not a Fix Or Repair Daily.

Grab a helper to check for spark to rule that out.

 

[bulger22]

Could this be the Idle Air control? That green type sensor plug located beneath the throttle body? I've been having this problem lately too and will take the MAF/intake off and unscrew it and clean with MAF cleaner to see if it helps. Some say they've tapped on it and it's helped but that wasn't so for Me.

 

[rcrick]

Im wondering though, is the "start and die" scenario repeatable in a short period of time? Or after it does the initial start and die does it just not start at all? Do you have to let it sit for a while before it will hit again?

Now I'm thinking if the relay was bad then it just wouldnt start at all.

If you are positive that the ecu isnt throwing any codes, have you checked for any vacuum leaks?

 

[technodrive]

it is every time, starts then dies in a few seconds. in total ive tried maybe 2 dozen times (about a dozen at first, then again a couple hours later)
cant get it driving.
crank over, start, stutter and die, remove key, insert key, repeat.
tried it once with the air filter out, and i would almost say it stayed on longer (maybe 5 seconds instead of 3) but couldnt get confirmation/replication. although i just brought it out here, i live in a desert so it is very dirty/dusty and my filter reflects that already(deckplated)

i havent hooked it up to a computer, but no cel

ive looked for lose/damaged hoses but cant see any in the immediate open. ill be looking more carefully tomorrow

 

[technodrive]

fuel pump relay, come to think of it i had a civic many years ago where the main(fuel pump) relay got corroded and caused the pump to not turn on, but that never did the start and die, just wouldnt start. am i looking for something different there?

 

[rcrick]

fuel pump relay, come to think of it i had a civic many years ago where the main(fuel pump) relay got corroded and caused the pump to not turn on, but that never did the start and die, just wouldnt start. am i looking for something different there?

Yeah i dont think its the relay after what you explained. If the relay was dead, it just wouldnt start.

 

[technodrive]

so this is what my tb looks like. i havent started cleaning yet, that wetness was already there

 

[LittleCaesar]

Wow. Clean the TB and IAC. Also change the PCV out with a new OEM one.

 

[TheDurk]

Well, that TB could certainly stand a cleaning.

Still, it seems to me you are getting a fuel cut after the initial fuel from the Start process. The ECU starts the fuel pump when it receives a voltage signal from the starter motor. It keeps it running after the starter voltage quits based on signals from crank and cam position sensors. I suspect this ain't happening as it should, so fuel gets cut as soon as starter is de-energized. I would check that both these sensors are in position with wiring intact and no damage to the crank pulley. It's even possible your crank bolt has come loose--probably because it was not properly torqued to the whopping 217 ft-lb. spec after the timing belt job, allowing the sprocket to slide forward and lose contact with the crank position sensor.

Just an internet guess, but that what it feels like to me.

 

[technodrive]

thanks thedurk, ill check into those as well. im thinking now, the cam position sensor's plug is right there where i sprayed the brake cleaner. it was connected, and i didnt spray right at it, but does anyone think i may have damaged it with the cleaner?

yeah i do have a new pcv valve i was planing to change shortly along with plugs and wires so ill get that in


also, i used near a full can of b12 chemtool on that tb and the iac, dripping black the whole time. it was BAD

 

[technodrive]

well, new gasket for the iacv will be here tomorrow morning, tb, maf, and iacv have been cleaned, pcv valve and gasket have been replaced, and for the hell of it ive done the intake silencer delete.

the crank pulley bolt is still tight by feel of hand, and it wont budge and the belts are all still line up. so doesnt seem to be that, however i am becoming increasingly worried that the cam sensor may be the issue since that probably got some brake cleaner on the wiring harness pigtail connector clip thing.

hopefully it runs tomorrow. its too cold to only have a motorcycle for a vehicle

 

[LittleCaesar]

Good luck with it. I take you tightened the crank bolt to 217ft/lbs. If all the marks are still good (balancer is at 0 and the cam marks line up), then I would look as Durk says for a fuel problem.

 

[technodrive]

TB/IACV/MAF(/ISR) cleaning were not successful.
Fuel system/electrical investigation will commence sunday.

 

[rcrick]

This is so strange. My truck acted exactly the same way yours is acting when I tried to start it with the MAF sensor unplugged.

Edit: well, the plugs on the throttle body may have been unplugged too. I can't remember now. But same thing. Crank, sputter and die. When I plugged everything back in it ran fine but had a bunch of codes on the ecu. Iac, MAF, IAT, etc.

I'm wondering if yours just hasn't run long enough to trigger the cel yet. Do you have any way of checking the ecu for trouble codes?

 

[technodrive]

-FOLLOW UP-

sorry guys, im just an idiot.

so when i settled on a fuel pump issue i got to thinking. the truck was in the parking garage, on a side slope. the tank runs transversely to the body. i then ran some calculations of last know mileage against the typical mpg, and distance i had traveled from last fill up on the cross country drive(my guage doesnt work properly). i checked my bank statement and remembered i didnt buy a full tank there, because it was an extra expensive town. end point, the fuel wasnt high enough to reach the pump. rolled the truck down to a flat level in the garage, runs.

thanks again everyone for you time and help, sorry i had such a stupid problem, maybe someone can learn from this in the future