Diff Lock - Am I an idiot?

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Kae006

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I made a deal on a 2003 v8 located at a dealer about 250 miles away from me. The deal included a trade so we agreed that the salesman would drive the 4runner down here and meet me at another dealer within the same "family" of dealers to do test drives, trade appraisal, and paperwork. I had the salesman check all systems and 4wd functions before making the deal as I didn't want him to make an 8 hour roundtrip drive for nothing. I met up with him today and the truck was absolutely spotless, I'm talking showroom clean. Only 75k miles, timing belt done @ 72k, even the hitch was still sealed in the factory Toyota box in the cargo area, I don't think you could find a cleaner 4th gen let alone the first year of the generation.

Went for a test drive and everything was very solid. Pulled onto a back road and tested 4 low and it locked up good. Went to test the diff lock and it the light would constantly flash, it refused to go solid. I tried EVERYTHING, park/neutral/reverse, go slow, go fast, 4lo, 4hi, etc etc and couldn't get the damn thing to go solid. You could hear the switch relay click and could even hear the actuator buzz, and when turning with it engaged (but flashing) the wheels would jump like it was engaged but that damned light wouldn't go solid no matter what you did. When disengaging, there was a solid "thunk" as what I assumed was the actuator unlocking. The salesman admitted he hadn't tested the diff lock and I don't think he would have known what to expect had he anyways. The only thing I can think is that either A.) the sensor was bad and it didn't KNOW the system was actually engaged or B.) considering the condition the previous owner likely never used the diff lock in the past 14 years and it actually wasn't working as intended. The dealer refused to renegotiate the deal and I sent the salesman back home empty handed. I felt like a huge jerk having him drive so far then backing out on the deal but I couldn't bring myself to buy it under the original terms when it wasn't in the originally described condition.

So my big question, am I a moron? Was I doing something wrong, is the light intended to blink continuously while the diff lock is engaged or is there some kind of trick to get it to fully lock up? I tried googling everything I could to figure out what I was missing while I was still at the dealer but I couldn't find any information that pointed to anything other than the system wasn't working as intended.
 
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Well....yes and no. I broke my t-case actuator a few months ago and was too cheap to fork over the $2K+ to get the dealership to repair it. Instead, I spent the $500 for a new actuator then spent the next two weeks on the forum and under my truck working out how to replace the actuator without cracking the t-case. I did it successfully but I wouldn't suggest it. The "timing" issue everyone talks about is a huge pain.

So....on to your question. Since 4Lo worked that's like the 99% failure so I'd have to say you kind of screwed up. The diff lock is kind of strange. 2Hi unlocked has that shift rod inserted all the way into the t-case. 4Hi unlocked is pulled out as far as that same rod goes. That same rod about halfway in (actually, it moves 21mm) diff locked. I don't know what the internal bits of the t-case look like exactly but it moves a collar back and forth to engage the chain that drives the front driveshaft. That engagement is either "locked" or has some amount of slip (a small planetary setup).

The flashing isn't normal but it sounds like the limit switches in the t-case actuator were giving some false readings. They might be off by a tooth so it was "locked" but the computer just didn't know it. Could this be fixed by some kind of zero-point calibration or maybe just resetting the 4wd computer...maybe. Was it actually a failure in the tcase and only replacing it (expensive) would fix the flashing? Sounds like you made a tough call but I think you had quite the creampuff of a truck there.

If the price was right enough I'd be making a road trip......if it wasn't making any "bad" noises when you were trying to lock the diff, just the flashing vs solid light, I think you'd still be OK.
 
Just call them back and tell them if they can make the diff lock work you'll buy it. They'll drive it down again under those circumstances. Since you were at one of his dealerships it seems like the salesman should have been on his toes enough to just say "hey, let's get service involved here and get this figured out so we can make the deal".
 
MossJenks said:
Just call them back and tell them if they can make the diff lock work you'll buy it. They'll drive it down again under those circumstances. Since you were at one of his dealerships it seems like the salesman should have been on his toes enough to just say "hey, let's get service involved here and get this figured out so we can make the deal".
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I agree completely and I asked them to throw it on a lift and see if they could have one of their techs at least take a look at it. They said being it was 14 years old that putting it on a lift would open them up to too much liability and it had to be sold as is. Wtf? Major dealership group with a good reputation so that threw me for a loop. To clarify, the salesman drove 250 miles to meet me at one of their dealers local to me, so he was a bit out of his element. The vehicle was originally in Dallas and I’m in Houston.
 
Kae006 said:
They said being it was 14 years old that putting it on a lift would open them up to too much liability and it had to be sold as is.
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Ah, now THERE is a HUGE red flag! Probably so rusty under there they were afraid the tranny would fall on your head and give you a concussion and you'd sue! :hungry:

Keep looking. Find one where they're they're eager to put it on a lift.
 
MossJenks said:
Ah, now THERE is a HUGE red flag! Probably so rusty under there they were afraid the tranny would fall on your head and give you a concussion and you'd sue! :hungry:



Keep looking. Find one where they're they're eager to put it on a lift.
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LoL, thanks. I had to tell myself a few times that there would be more opportunities. No rust on this one though, it was a Texas vehicle it’s whole life. Even the carfax was incredible, oil changes done every 3k Miles or 6 months, whichever came first and ALL service done by dealer since new. Ugh.

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Risk tolerance, you didn't have enough information, you've still got your money, there are other deals, you trusted your gut instinct and for that, just think if it would have been an expensive issue and how mad you'd be with something sitting in your driveway that you couldn't drive?

I like to call it buying into a problem I can't afford. I say you were smart. Hat's off to you for not being so obsessed that you couldn't say no. Shows good self discipline.
 
Supersonic said:
Risk tolerance, you didn't have enough information, you've still got your money, there are other deals, you trusted your gut instinct and for that, just think if it would have been an expensive issue and how mad you'd be with something sitting in your driveway that you couldn't drive?



I like to call it buying into a problem I can't afford. I say you were smart. Hat's off to you for not being so obsessed that you couldn't say no. Shows good self discipline.
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Thanks! I appreciate that.

I made this short video during test drive on a dead end road. Ignore the commentary, was sending it to a Toyota buddy to make I was doing it right.

https://youtu.be/mBh-_eNt9Go
 
I believe you have to press and hold the switch, not just tap it. In neutral, hold until engaged, or disengaged. It says something about the proper technique in the manual. I can look it up if you don't have one.
 
Why not use the issue as a negotiation tactic to have them fix it before purchase. Seems like you have some leverage when it comes to price.
 
Macallan said:
I believe you have to press and hold the switch, not just tap it. In neutral, hold until engaged, or disengaged. It says something about the proper technique in the manual. I can look it up if you don't have one.
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Nope you just have to tap the button, it will engage and the light will go solid.
 
depending on the price, and your described use of the vehicle, it may still be worth getting.

also, the diff lock more precisely is a CENTER diff lock. it locks the transfer case(not the rear differential) into a solid 50/50 split. much like the old style part time 4wd vehicles.

I/E, don't drive in 4wd on dry pavement.

so, depending on your use, you may never have the need to even use the CDL. since its the v8 model, its AWD/full time 4wd. so you still have 4wd like traction.

it also may, with some more attempts start to work normally. I think the biggest issue is that 4low worked correctly.
 
nevada said:
depending on the price, and your described use of the vehicle, it may still be worth getting.

also, the diff lock more precisely is a CENTER diff lock. it locks the transfer case(not the rear differential) into a solid 50/50 split. much like the old style part time 4wd vehicles.

I/E, don't drive in 4wd on dry pavement.

so, depending on your use, you may never have the need to even use the CDL. since its the v8 model, its AWD/full time 4wd. so you still have 4wd like traction.

it also may, with some more attempts start to work normally. I think the biggest issue is that 4low worked correctly.
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I say 4lo worked properly but I just assume it does. The light came on solid and the vehicle acted as if it was in low gear.
 
Kae006 said:
I say 4lo worked properly but I just assume it does. The light came on solid and the vehicle acted as if it was in low gear.
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sounds like it did work correctly. when it doesn't, the light flashes, and you get a constant warning tone.

you can definitely tell the difference between 4low, and 4hi. drive a few feet in each, watch your speed, and the tach. there will be a significant difference between them.
 
So here’s how the story ends:

Talked to the salesman this morning and told him if they would knock off $900 I would drive up and buy it. He said they sold it last night once he returned to the dealership. Oh well.
 
Kae006 said:
So here’s how the story ends:

Talked to the salesman this morning and told him if they would knock off $900 I would drive up and buy it. He said they sold it last night once he returned to the dealership. Oh well.
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And I am SURE they disclosed the non-functioning center diff lock to the new buyer....;):
 
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