Do you drive with a gun?

[BrianSD_42]

5. Libs don't use reason, they use emotion. Gun control is a perfect example. It's nearly impossible for a person of reason to comprehend this, thus we're always so baffled at what comes out of their mouths.

I know these subject bring out a lot of hot air so no offense Prime but this has to be one of the most ignorant comments I've seen in a long time.

Personally, I consider myself a moderate and can see the positives that came out of decisions by past politicians on both sides of the aisle, from FDR & LBJ to Eisenhower & R. Regan.

But seriously ... "Libs (liberals) don't use reason, they use emotion"


Have you heard of the liberal founding father Thomas Paine and his little book (sarcasm) on reason?

The Age of Reason - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


:hatsoff:

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

I don't believe crime stats show that property theft is directly tied to physical assault or murder rates.

When it comes to my family I HAVE to assume anyone who has broken in to my house with me there intends to harm one or more of us and I am morally bound to act accordingly. THEY have placed me in the situation and no matter what I will be stuck eating a poop sandwich. The question is what kind of bread will it be on and how many turds will it contain.

 

[BrianSD_42]

When it comes to my family I HAVE to assume anyone who has broken in to my house with me there intends to harm one or more of us and I am morally bound to act accordingly

I agree but what if it is still daylight and they aren't armed but some drunk neighbors kid who got lost (this has happened recently in CO).

My main point is that people should only shoot those whom they know are a direct danger. We don't have castle laws in CA and I am not sure how I would vote if one showed up on the ballet.

Just so you know, in CA the civilian rules on lethal force when defending yourself require that the home invader must be armed and you must fear for your life. There is no "castle law" protection here like in FL, CO or TX.

.

 

[Thai]

they aren't armed but some drunk neighbors kid who got lost (this has happened recently in CO).

Just so you know, in CA the civilian rules on lethal force when defending yourself require that the home invader must be armed and you must fear for your life. There is no "castle law" protection here like in FL, CO or TX.

Because drunk folks never do any wrong nor harm other folks?? Do u always have time to fully inspect every home invader for a hidden weapon?? Just because they were drunk at the time and got "lost" in your house, then we should feel sorry for them after they rape your daughter or beat up your wife? Is there a system to predict a drunk's behavior?? So, a drunk who kills folks on the highway gets a free pass since they were drunk and got lost behind the wheel?? Really?!

Sorry, I don't have a metal detector at every entry point nor a personal bodyguard to strip search everyone. Btw, if I know someone has invaded my house, I do NOT go out of my room and look for him/her. I lock myself and family up and call 911. If that bas****, drunk or not, decides to keep advancing, then I will use deadly force. And yes, if that drunk bas**** keeps advancing IN MY HOUSE towards me and my family, then i do fear for my and family lives and you better believe that i will empty my magazine(s) at him/her, drunken or not, armed or not.

And yeah that is why I think Kalifornia policies and the folks behind them are idiotic. And Brian, I don't really care if your liberal ass agrees with me or not. Shocking that you have not brought up your brief past military credentials yet!

 

[KidVermicious]

This is the thread that never ends,
It just goes on and on my friends,
TRDCal posted it not knowing what it was,
And now we're all replying to it forever just because
This is the thread that never ends...

 

[Thai]

This is the thread that never ends,
It just goes on and on my friends,
TRDCal posted it not knowing what it was,
And now we're all replying to it forever just because
This is the thread that never ends...

That is what forums are for....

 

[4dailyRunner]

Said Better Than I could: ...

“I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend, (J.R.R. Tolkien)”.

 

[Ti-Ben]

http://www.oyetimes.com/news/canada/22612-quebec-police-found-2-year-old-shot-dead

Good reading

 

[Ti-Ben]

I had a long discussion with a guy from Florida on guns a while ago. I think other canadians here already said it, but the mindset is completely different from the US.

I thought he had good arguments to justify his point, but this logic doesn't apply when in Canada. Different country, different culture.

The sadest thing is (from my point of view) the fact that if you feel the need to carry all the time, that is because you live in fear all year long. I couldn't stand the idea of carrying a gun, comes with too much risks. Some people may call that responsabilities.

As Thai said, this discussion could never end. People say I'm conservative here, but when talking to some friends in the US they think I'm almost a socialist.

 

[BrianSD_42]

The saddest thing is (from my point of view) the fact that if you feel the need to carry all the time, that is because you live in fear all year long. I

Not every American carries a gun around all the time. I would say .0001% of our 350 million citizens carry a loaded and chambered concealed weapon to the grocery store or the movies. Even in TX it is very very rare.

But hey some people live in fear. That is their right.

 

[Ti-Ben]

Not every American carries a gun around all the time. I would say .0001% of our 350 million citizens carry a loaded and chambered concealed weapon to the grocery store or the movies. Even in TX it is very very rare.

But hey some people live in fear. That is their right.

When saying ''you'', I mean people that carry all the time. Sorry for the confusion.

I understand the fact to have one at home (not under the pilow, I do crazy things when asleep).

In the car, my thought is when someone is threatening you or your family, isn't quicker to hit the gas pedal and get away from the situation than reaching for the gun? I guess you want to have the firearm in a safe place so a child can't reach it, but at the same time when you need it, you need it now? And if a bas**** points a gun at you, how can you react to that?

Sorry I may sound like a re**** or anti-gun, this is very unusual in here. I've never seen a handgun anywhere else than on the belt of a policeman.

 

[Thai]

You just never know: Jeanne Assam: 'It was me, the gunman, and God'

Requoting my post earlier. Church...who knew?!

Not really fear...but PREPARED for the worst...if it never happens, then it is no sweat off my back. My little 9mm is easy enough to carry comfortably all day.

And yes, i do have a gun safe at home that stores my weapon whenever it is off my hip. My kids know about the guns at home and knows to stay away from the safe. The safe has quick access combination: http://www.gunvault.com/gv2000c-std.html

 

[BrianSD_42]

I will expand on what I said with this:

I totally understand and respect the need to protect ones family by keeping a weapon in the bedroom or in your car on a road trip with the wife and kids.

But I don't think grown men who live in nice neighborhoods need to take a loaded and concealed 45 with them to Safeway because the wife needed some sugar for her baking.

For our Canadian friends, please note that > 99% of Americans do Not carry a firearm on their person everywhere they go.

 

[TRDCal]

TRDCal posted it not knowing what it was

Oops...sorry :hiding:

The sadest thing is (from my point of view) the fact that if you feel the need to carry all the time, that is because you live in fear all year long.

My feelings exactly!

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

But I don't think grown men who live in nice neighborhoods need to take a loaded and concealed 45 with them to Safeway because the wife needed some sugar for her baking.

I'm glad you think this. Does that mean you get to make the decision for me and my family? What is a "nice" neighborhood? Who decides what qualifies as "nice"? I live in what would generally be thought of as a "nice" neighborhood and there's a 21 year-old living 100 yards from my house that has 6 CONVICTIONS since he turned 18 ranging from petty theft up through spousal battery with a lot in between. When I checked last week he was still sitting in Delano Prison awaiting trial on something like $115,000 bail which seems to be higher than his mom can shell out to spring him free this time so he can get busy terrorizing people by breaking in to their houses, stealing from businesses, etc. since the state of California really won't lock you up for more than a few days unless you've be convicted of major violent crimes. Does this qualify me to carry a firearm outside of my residence? If your answer is anything other than "that's for you to decide" then I question who has granted you the authority to dictate what others can do? Why does the caliber or size of the firearm matter to you? This is a straw man argument. Personally I usually carry a 9MM Ruger LC9 and a 380ACP Ruger LCP. At 6'00" and a lean 180 lbs this is about all I can reasonably conceal on my body. If someone can fit a full-frame 1911-style 45ACP and still maintain concealment then they should be my guest.

For our Canadian friends, please note that > 99% of Americans do Not carry a firearm on their person everywhere they go.

Where do you get this information? Are you trying to reassure our Canadian friends that they won't experience "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral? My guess is that more than 1% of eligible Americans (adult, no criminal history) have CCWs or reside in a state where they can carry on themselves or in their vehicle as much as they want. Beyond that my guess that the number of people who illegally carry is FAR higher than the numbers of those whom go through the hassle to be registered with local authorities to carry.

I'll leave it at that for the moment and give some of the others here a chance to chime in.

 

[Thai]

In Texas, i think that i saw something like 2% of Texans have CCW as of last year or so...and that number is growing.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Not every American carries a gun around all the time. I would say .0001% of our 350 million citizens carry a loaded and chambered concealed weapon to the grocery store or the movies. Even in TX it is very very rare.

But hey some people live in fear. That is their right.

I'm going to be a stickler for detail so .0001% of 350,000,000 is 350 people. I think if you posted observers at 35 different grocery stores in a state with an open carry law such as Arizona (city of Tucson for instance) you'll probably count those 350 people exercising open carry in a few hours....but then you missed the 3500 people that walked by you with a concealed firearm, and this, sir, is the point.

I can only speak for the fact that my wife and I do not carry due to fear, beyond the reasonable knowledge that bad guys are out there destroying the lives of people every day and creating wicked fear in their victims. I buckle my seatbelt EVERY time I drive my vehicle and the same goes for my children and my wife but I have NEVER needed a seatbelt in the 19 years I've been driving. How foolish would I be to think that because I've never experienced a need for a seat belt that I should not use one or have my family use them? We can look at the data and see that ~35,000 people die on US roads and highways annually with hundreds of thousands injured. The same goes for carrying a firearm. If you spend a little time looking at reputable statistics you'll find that the number of instances where a firearm was used to deter a crime by a citizen outside of their line of work you'll find the estimates in the millions annually. Criminals, especially experienced ones, tend to fear few things with the exception of police dogs and the muzzle of a firearm. When a criminal gets the mentality that the risk of getting caught is next to nothing you’ve got yourself one dangerous dude and pretty much all restraint is abandoned. If you ever get to spend time around violent criminals you'll see that the disparity between how you value your life and the life of your family and how they value your life and the life of your family is, um, rather large.

I know a fair number of my local law enforcement officers as well as others from the state and even federal level. They themselves know that they really cannot do much to prevent an attack from taking place. Most of them highly encourage law-abiding citizens to apply for a CCW and carry. I live in a moderately small-town setting so I know folks here have a different mentality than those living in big cities who generally think every responsibility falls on the government, but unless you’ve got your own law enforcement officer glued to your hip you are ultimately responsible for your own safety and even bigger is the fact that I as a husband and father am responsible for the safety of my wife and my children and must do whatever I can to care for them and protect them from people that would do them harm.

 

[Thai]

but what if it is still daylight and they aren't armed but some drunk neighbors kid who got lost (this has happened recently in CO).

How about some lost kid high on "bath salts"?? Harmless you say?

 

[priestsallore]

Oh goodie, a thread about guns! I'll dasay this.. I agree whole-heartedly with Thai. I also am a proud Texan and country boy, and even as being in the Air Force, California or any other state can kiss my ass when I carry a fully loaded sidearm at all times, and a 12guage on a padded gun rack in the 4runner. I believe in our Constitution and will defend her against all foreign and domestic threats. I will also defend my life or anothers life in any harmful situation. I won't shoot to kill for the legality of stopping them first, but in the right situation, my next bullet will be through the heart. To those who say we shouldn't need to carry a gun, I will leave you this thought in your head. What if, in the situation that you are with your wife and someone tried to rob you at an ATM armed, and after wanted to take your wife with them for pleasure... What will you do? Will you humbly consent, or will you stop him in his tracks? Or, what if a woman or man was being beaten to the point of death, would you walk away? As a former SEO and a part time LEO as well as a member of our Air Force, I would shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Just so you know, in CA the civilian rules on lethal force when defending yourself require that the home invader must be armed and you must fear for your life. There is no "castle law" protection here like in FL, CO or TX.

I don't think I'd EVER pull the trigger unless I had "reasonable fear" that said intruder was there to do harm. Check the books but if I recall correctly the law says nothing about the intruder being "armed". What is armed? A crowbar? A 2x4? Does he have to have a BIG gun? Do I have to verify it is loaded? Do I have to know whether he knows how to use it?

Trust me, there's no incentive to apply lethal force unless you fear for your life or the life of a loved one. I like the analogy of the dollar placed on the table. Open your wallet and place a dollar on the table (Hey, we have a single-income house with three young kids, a buck is about all I can muster!). If you ever have to apply lethal force to anyone ever the very best you can hope for is to get your dollar back. Odds are you are going to get much less than your dollar back. Even if I'm not charged with manslaughter, murder, etc. I can pretty much guarantee I'll be taking a ride down to the county jail in the back of a patrol car. I can pretty much guarantee I will be placed on some sort of administrative leave at work while it gets sorted out. I can pretty much guarantee my wife and family will suffer as a result.

Let me reiterate, pulling the trigger is only going to happen when I believe it is the better of two outcomes. I would defend my wife and children until death and that includes the possibility that I could be convicted of a crime and spend time, even a long time in prison to ensure they are not hurt or killed by a criminal. That's what I signed up to do when a covenant was made between myself and God on my wedding day.