Do you folks do real offroading in financed 5th gens?

[Jetboy]

FWIW - a 5th gen out of the box has a lot of advantages over a 3rd gen. The significant increase in strength of the front drive system and the traction control systems give it a big leg up in performance in stock form.

As I'm sure you know, the 3rd gen is a great base vehicle but needs a handful of upgrades to get serious about the harder offroad trials. Namely it needs at a minimum a set of locking diffs and typically also a front end upgrade. The 7.5 isn't known for being particularly strong, nor are the front axles. It generally also needs one of the various solutions to upgrade the upper ball joints. Otherwise it's a very good platform to start with. But it's really not as capable off the shelf as a 5th gen. As a result over time unless your 3rd gen is double locked and has fairly large tires, you'll find that the 5th gen is typically enough better that you'll be using it more and more.

That said - I really loved my 3rd gen and have considered buying another one to build a dedicated family trail rig out of. I think the 3rd gen and the LC80 are the two best platforms to start with for a family crawler given how cheap they are and how much you get relative to the starting price. I see a lot of really cheap 3rd gens around that are a fantastic starting point. IMO the best build for me for an all around family crawler is something like a 3rd gen on about 40's with a LC 9.5 rear axle or an 8.2 and a 30 spline reverse 8" front IFS conversion (basically swapping 5th gen running gear). The Front Range 4R is fantastic as an all around crawler/family hauler. So I don't think there's any reason not to consider keeping both if you're going to build the 3rd gen into a more hardcore crawler. OTOH if you're only planning on a 3" lift and 33" tires - the 5th gen will end up being what you use for everything I'd bet.

 

[CougarHound]

You can get a dune buggy and tow it with the new 4runner.

 

[CTR_B16B]

The first pinstripe is the one you'll never forget.

HAHA, great quote, Got mine at Johnson Valley Chasing, brappp brapppp brapppp on a nite run...

 

[MaddoxPics]

I like to think I do, but at the end of the day it's going to come down to everyone's definition of "real off-roading." Which is quite different. Some consider fire roads off-roading, others consider it legit rock crawling.

 

[cccolin]

I have a friend with a Mclaren MP4. He drives it daily when the weather is nice. And sometimes when it isn't. He takes road trips in it and and it has some scuffs here and there. Paint is swirled in places from getting washed at a local hand car wash. People ask him if he is deranged, but he says he is just enjoying it the way a car needs to be enjoyed.

In other words, your 5th gen can be wheeled off the dealer lot. Stop being such a sissy. Paintless dent repair, ceramic coating, and paint protection film are all a real thing. 5th gen paint kind of sucks, so I'd recommend getting it wrapped anyway.

lol. It doesn't have anything to do with being a sissy. it has to do with being a person with a normal middle class income and bills and not wanting to lose a shitload of money on a financed car because of wheeling it. I'm not your buddy that can afford a McLaren and not care about damaging it. I'm a normal dude with student loans and such that would be making a slight stretch to afford a $42k truck and wants to protect that.

 

[cccolin]

FWIW - a 5th gen out of the box has a lot of advantages over a 3rd gen. The significant increase in strength of the front drive system and the traction control systems give it a big leg up in performance in stock form.

As I'm sure you know, the 3rd gen is a great base vehicle but needs a handful of upgrades to get serious about the harder offroad trials. Namely it needs at a minimum a set of locking diffs and typically also a front end upgrade. The 7.5 isn't known for being particularly strong, nor are the front axles. It generally also needs one of the various solutions to upgrade the upper ball joints. Otherwise it's a very good platform to start with. But it's really not as capable off the shelf as a 5th gen. As a result over time unless your 3rd gen is double locked and has fairly large tires, you'll find that the 5th gen is typically enough better that you'll be using it more and more.

That said - I really loved my 3rd gen and have considered buying another one to build a dedicated family trail rig out of. I think the 3rd gen and the LC80 are the two best platforms to start with for a family crawler given how cheap they are and how much you get relative to the starting price. I see a lot of really cheap 3rd gens around that are a fantastic starting point. IMO the best build for me for an all around family crawler is something like a 3rd gen on about 40's with a LC 9.5 rear axle or an 8.2 and a 30 spline reverse 8" front IFS conversion (basically swapping 5th gen running gear). The Front Range 4R is fantastic as an all around crawler/family hauler. So I don't think there's any reason not to consider keeping both if you're going to build the 3rd gen into a more hardcore crawler. OTOH if you're only planning on a 3" lift and 33" tires - the 5th gen will end up being what you use for everything I'd bet.

good info, thanks. I'm leaning more towards a 5th gen. I realized that most of the time that I do long road trips, it's to go somewhere I'm going to offroad, or go skiing somewhere that just got snow dumped on it, or to go mountain biking. so clearance, 4x4, offroad capability, and interior room for my dog and bike aren't things I can let go for onroad performance, until I can afford two nice cars, which isn't right now.

 

[Bumbo]

lol. It doesn't have anything to do with being a sissy. it has to do with being a person with a normal middle class income and bills and not wanting to lose a shitload of money on a financed car because of wheeling it. I'm not your buddy that can afford a McLaren and not care about damaging it. I'm a normal dude with student loans and such that would be making a slight stretch to afford a $42k truck and wants to protect that.

It’s all relative… dollar value doesn’t matter assuming it’s all within your means.

Mr. Mclaren obvious knows it’s expensive, but instead of turning it into a garage queen he uses it.

Your 4Runner could very well be your Mclaren. Same example, use it and enjoy it for what it is.


It’s not advise, but this is my personal outlook on things like this… I generally try not to buy things I can’t afford to lose. If I need it and can’t afford to lose it, I insure it correctly. If I can’t afford to insure it correctly, I don’t buy it.

Non essentials are luxury items… I don’t need to off-road, but I like to off-road. It’s a high risk activity and I am OK with taking the loss. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t do it, or I would find something more affordable to do it in.

 

[Jon_H]

Does this count? I'd like to think I'm using the car what it was designed for. It'd be a shame if I never got to play with the fancy buttons overhead. Sure, I have pinstripes and dented up rear bumper, but honestly makes me love it more.

 

[TRDORP2019]

I love taking my rig on extreme off road trips. I will admit I've been nervous a few times but when you make it through crazy obstacles it makes it that much more rewarding.

 

[T4R2014]

lol. It doesn't have anything to do with being a sissy. it has to do with being a person with a normal middle class income and bills and not wanting to lose a shitload of money on a financed car because of wheeling it. I'm not your buddy that can afford a McLaren and not care about damaging it. I'm a normal dude with student loans and such that would be making a slight stretch to afford a $42k truck and wants to protect that.

The regular old 9-5 joe shmoe excuse. You can buy a Camry if you want to tell all your coworkers that you got a spiffy new ride.

 

[Jonny_04]

I agree, why get something and not use it? There are limits to what I want to tackle but if anything does goes wrong, that's what insurance and the 25k warranty is for. Might as well break suspension stuff while it's stilled covered. I don't see myself doing any serious rock climbing and like another member stated, I want to explore more and go places where I was unable to go before getting my first 4Runner.

that 25k warranty doesn't cover what has been modified if the dealership did it themselves; Once you modify anything more than likely the dealership wont cover it on warranty as any mishap will be a result of mods.

 

[ChrisJHarney]

Yes a lot of us wheel them. I'll be done with payments in December and just crested 36K miles so I'm out of warranty. Am I going to let up now? Hell no. Can I afford to replace it if I break it? Not right away, but over the last two years I've learned so much about how to work on it that I'm not all that worried, a lot of what I do and what could break I can fix myself. I'm not concerned about the drivetrain because I take care of it properly. I picked up a little Scion to kick around town and shuttle the kids for $2500 as insurance and to not have to subject it to a ton of city miles, plus I don't need to drive it everyday wherever I go to show it off.

It's not a lifestyle vehicle. It's a vehicle that allows me to live the life I love, which is to get the hell out of town, camp in the middle of nowhere for days at a time, and tackle beautiful trails away from the barbarian horde that is LA.

I can't say I've taken it up to 13K', but this is 12K', does that count?

 

[cccolin]

The regular old 9-5 joe shmoe excuse. You can buy a Camry if you want to tell all your coworkers that you got a spiffy new ride.

Lol. Ok buddy. Ya got me. You definitely know what my life is like based on a few posts about buying a car. People that know me IRL would spit their coffee/beer out laughing if they knew someone on the internet called me a regular 9-5 Joe Schmoe. But you really figured me out. Phew. Glad I got that one solved by the mysteriously brilliant internet commenter.

 

[cccolin]

It’s all relative… dollar value doesn’t matter assuming it’s all within your means.

Mr. Mclaren obvious knows it’s expensive, but instead of turning it into a garage queen he uses it.

Your 4Runner could very well be your Mclaren. Same example, use it and enjoy it for what it is.


It’s not advise, but this is my personal outlook on things like this… I generally try not to buy things I can’t afford to lose. If I need it and can’t afford to lose it, I insure it correctly. If I can’t afford to insure it correctly, I don’t buy it.

Non essentials are luxury items… I don’t need to off-road, but I like to off-road. It’s a high risk activity and I am OK with taking the loss. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t do it, or I would find something more affordable to do it in.

Ooooo kayyyy. For the last time. I wouldn’t buy it and not use it, nor was that my question. I have beat the living shit out of every vehicle I have ever owned and this one wouldn’t be different. My question was about losing money if I damaged it offroading, assuming that insurance wouldn’t cover it. Apparently some policies do cover it, or you can find one that will or amend the policy for add ons, etc. That basically answered my question.

Beyond that I was simply curious if other folks wheel financed vehicles. Apparently they do. Cool. Rad to see folks out using these things as I’m sure the vast majority of them never leave the pavement. I know I see 3rd gens around that have definitely been soccer mom cars their entire lives.

To the helpful folks, thanks for the advice.

To those who will inevitably comment without reading, have at it. Enjoy your 3 sentence grandstand pontificating on what someone’s purchases mean about their masculinity.

 

[ChrisJHarney]

Insurance will cover most any damage sustained, and if you're driving solo and wreck it, it will be considered your fault and rates may go up depending on who you have and if they have accident forgiveness baked in.

Aftermarket equipment gets a little tricky. There are add on plans that cover aftermarket equipment. I have Mercury and they charge $15/6mo. for every $1000 of equipment I want to cover.

Another question is what does the insurance company think your vehicle is worth to begin with. Luckily we're talking 4runners which retain their value quite well, so you would probably come out ok if you had to make a claim.

But really, if you're hitting an 8 rated trail at 10K', 30 miles off the nearest forest road, and snap a CV/spindle/steering rack, and can't fix it on the trail, or god forbid roll it, what your insurance definitely WONT cover, is the cost to get towed back home until you get it on pavement. So unless you have really awesome friends who know a lot about recovery (sounds like you might), you'll be paying any of those fees out of pocket. I think someone recently rolled off Black Bear. I wouldn't want to get that tow truck bill.

All things to consider before going all in on a new vehicle that you're going to put at risk.

Sorry if this is also something you've already heard before. I read your initial post and actually took one route you were considering, which is buy a kick around car that's decent on fuel and build up and utilize my Runner as an expedition/camping/trail running vehicle. It probably wasn't the smartest idea as I could have paid it off much sooner if I hadn't decked it out, but damn if I haven't taken it on some awesome trips. I could have also trashed it on one of those trips and been down the drain. I like to think it was 50% pure luck and 50% good decision making that got me down those trails without incident. But who knows. I take a lot of calculated risks and most of the time it pays off.

The best advise I've ever got when making a decision is, do whatever you think is going to make you the happiest.

Again, sorry if this is all stuff that's been covered.

 

[T4R2014]

Lol. Ok buddy. Ya got me. You definitely know what my life is like based on a few posts about buying a car. People that know me IRL would spit their coffee/beer out laughing if they knew someone on the internet called me a regular 9-5 Joe Schmoe. But you really figured me out. Phew. Glad I got that one solved by the mysteriously brilliant internet commenter.

Yes I understand you're a unique snowflake too. Not the point. Point is that you can "really" offroad a new vehicle. And there are precautions you can take.

 

[Akkording]

Do what you like, it's your T4R. Really does anyone's opinion here really matter? Just be safe in your adventures, have the proper gear and training so you know how to use it regardless what it is. Just enjoy life man don't sweat it and let us internet jocks disrupt your plans.

 

[Drobs]

Went to the Rendevouz in the Ozarks located at the Byrds Off Road Park in the Ozark National Forest, near Ozark Arkansas. 1st day I was there I tried some of the park's Blue "Easy" trails by myself. Made it 1/2 up one of trails and turned back. Figure I'd rather go in group of people with more experience.

The next day made friends with a guy name Jeff from Iowa driving a 2019 Tacoma OR. We decided we try to see one of the waterfalls in the area. Having both checked out the Off Road Park trails and finding them a little rough. Agreed we'd just stick to the "easy" National Forest trails. Holly crap - bad idea!

2 hours filled with Rocks, Mud Holes, Off Camber, Multiple Water Crossings, Steep Hill Climbs, Stair Steps, Descents on loose rocks / boulders, rubbing my slider on rock / mud wall, on and on. Used the rear locker multiple times. Pure insanity. About an hour into the trail we realized there was no turning back, only way to go was forward.

This was one of those trails you read about in 4WD magazines. We met some Atv riders 1/3 of the way through - they said - unless you want to break CV joints, take the short cuts around the mud holes. I powered through one of the mud holes and avoided the next 4.

No body damage but got some pinstriping...

I might've been internally freeking out at times but the 4Runner handled it just perfectly. Towards the end - I thought to myself, I'd take some serious pinstriping just to get off this F'n trail.

The last bit out was a serious muddy rocky long steep hill climb. Near the top of the hill was a boulder sticking out into the trail at door handle level with a mud rock wall on the left. The trail leaned towards the wall on the left. Jeff, in the lead, tried going over the top of the boulder twice, stopped and we took another at look at it.

Decided it would be best to stack rocks on left of that boulder. Jeff jumped in the Taco and gunned it to the top, going to the left of the boulder. I did the same and found myself with my rock slider riding the wall on the left.

I figure - this is what I bought this vehicle for. It was between a Wrangler Rubicon and this T4R OR.

On parts of this trail, I joked to Jeff, maybe I should just trade this thing in on a Prius and join the Hyper Miler Club...


Naw that would suck!

Marked Safe @ the Ozark Inn Motel ($50 per night).

 

[cccolin]

2019 TRD OR Premium with KDSS.

test drove a bunch of things and the only one I really wanted after driving it was a 4runner. of course. thought I wanted a "performance" car, but really I just wanted a modern truck that wasn't clapped out. feels like driving a top tier Mercedes compared to my 98. Especially appreciate the little things like windshield wiper heaters (I do a lot of high altitude winter driving, frozen wipers was a serious issue with my 98) and seat heaters. First car/truck I've ever owned (out of about 15) that was less than 15 years old and had less than 175k miles on it. the RAV4 was ok, if i just wanted a normal, smooth car with decent-ish cargo space and good MPG, would go for one, but since every single road trip I take is either to backcountry ski, mountain bike, or go offroading, I wasn't willing to give up the ground clearance or locker or cargo space. Also test drove some performance AWD cars like WRX, A6, etc, and while they were fun, with my lead foot, I think I'd probably end up in jail or at least losing my license. plus the clearance thing.

anyway, I appreciate most of the feedback I got, personal attacks excepted. Now to find some trails that aren't already blocked by snow.

 

[ProfessorP]

Yep! 2019 TRD OR with 14,800 miles on the odometer.