Does anyone run their 4Runner in real cold (below -25º F)

[eurasiaoverland]

Hi guys

I was in Russia with my 3rd Gen during the winter before last. I noticed my steering got pretty sloppy and ulitmately traced it to severe wear in the upper ball joints (I could lift the upper control arms by hand by several millimetres) which I theorise was due to the flimsy rubber grease / dust boots splitting in the cold. The boots on the UBJs on both sides were split, the joints got dry (or the lubricant froze and just came out as solid chunks) and wore very quickly. They were geniuine Toyota joints, newly replaced before the trip started (so had about 15k miles on in normal conditions before the real cold started). After a further 5k miles in the deep cold they were shot.

I'm normally impressed by the quality of genuine items, however the boots on the genuine UBJs always look crappy to me. The boots on the lower ball joints are much better quality, and did not split (though one LBJ got some play, I guess due to lubricant freezing).

So, wondering if other users in extreme cold environments have had the same issues? Does anyone know of any higher quality grease boots for the UBJs?

Or could the issue be something different (due to a 2" lift? Sounds unlikely to me as a mild lift is so common and I don't read UBJ problem stories).

Thanks,

EO

 

[thegipper]

While Wisconsin is not Russia, it does get pretty damn cold here. Last year we had a week long stretch where the actual temperature was -30deg F. It's not uncommon here for it to go a couple weeks without breaking into the teens during the day.

My 97 4runner has had no issues dealing with the cold temperatures except last year I had oil puking out of the spark plug seals because I had excess moisture in the oil (my truck only see's short trips in the winter, less than 20 miles per day). The fix was to change the oil and go on longer drives more often to burn off the moisture that builds up in winter.

Haven't had any issues with rubber boots or anything else failing because of the extreme temps.

But other than that, it has never had a problem starting or anything else. It even lives outside during the winter and not in the comfort of our garage.

 

[3bears]

will be following this thread, as it will be my 2nd winter and my first with my 4 runner here in Alaska ( brought it up form Oregon this spring)
last year I saw temps of -20, but the family says -40 not unusual.
It wont be in a garage, got a block heater.....we will see.

 

[brillo_76]

Very rarely do I see those low of temps in PA. Once in a blue moon will it get that cold at night here. I would verify your antifreeze is suitable for that temperature and I would probably drop the oil to 0w -30 instead of 5w-30 so it would make it easier to start at super cold temps. I agree a block heater would be an excellent ad on for these kind of low temperatures.

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[eurasiaoverland]

I will say that I had absolutely zero problems in cold temperatures with my Surf (JDM 4Runner). I had temperatures down to -42º C and cold started it from -31º C (these are air temperatures, not with wind-chill of course) and the truck was perfect. It's a common vehicle out in the coldest parts of Russia where Japanese cars are pretty much the only ones used. I'm just wondering why my new, genuine UBJs wore so quickly.

EO

 

[gamefreakgc]

At my house we dipped into the high 20's overnight one time.

Gosh I love CA.

 

[brillo_76]

At my house we dipped into the high 20's overnight one time.

Gosh I love CA.

Come play in the rust belt of the northern states of the United Sates where it snows. Can get very cold and the states like to use salt to not only eat our vehicles away but also destroy the roads and bridges. Nothing like Alaska nor northern Russia cold. However, below 0 F is not that uncommon in the weather months of PA.

 

[Kanoe]

Mine has been a Yukon truck it's whole life. Pretty common to start our vehicles at -40 to -45 in everyday life, although less common in recent years as winters are generally milder.

When I got my 96 5 years ago from the original owner everything was original in the suspension/steering department. And still is except the LBJs. Original UBJs, original boots until I rebooted the drivers side while doing the ECGS bushing. It was still in good shape, just wanted to repack the grease.

Maybe the new replacements are not as good as the originals were. I'm seeing a lot of Toyota things are saying made in Taiwan or some such place now, not Japan any longer.

 

[Piney]

I have never started my 3rd gen below -40 but down to that is nearly a daily thing here in the winter. Battery warmer only, some synthetic oil. It's fine.
I once started a first gen below -50 because a vehicle had gone missing and I had to go find it. Axles were frozen so there was a delay getting rolling that time. Block heater meant engine fired up great.
---
Problems are not with machines that live in the dry cold but rather those that visit or are newly brought there - until the moisture is worked out of everything.
---
It's good to have that rear heater.

 

[brillo_76]

Mine has been a Yukon truck it's whole life. Pretty common to start our vehicles at -40 to -45 in everyday life, although less common in recent years as winters are generally milder.

When I got my 96 5 years ago from the original owner everything was original in the suspension/steering department. And still is except the LBJs. Original UBJs, original boots until I rebooted the drivers side while doing the ECGS bushing. It was still in good shape, just wanted to repack the grease.

Maybe the new replacements are not as good as the originals were. I'm seeing a lot of Toyota things are saying made in Taiwan or some such place now, not Japan any longer.

Has the climate changed in the Yukon? I have seen 43 seasons in my state and the coldest I seen it here was about 5 years ago. It got cold right after Thanksgiving and we stayed completely snow / ice covered till darn near March. For a month or 2 we had highs of zero degrees Fahrenheit and -10 -25 degrees nights. I have seen no snow winters and snow all winter long. Sorta always changing but seems to be in long patterns though. One of the reasons I like my area is we have all 4 of the seasons. Some parts of the country dosent experience that as their environment is different. The one thing a despise about this state is the Department of Transportation sees a flake they believe they have to soak the roads with calcium chloride and cover the roads with salt. As several states got the dumb idea that the roads are supposed to be bear and wet in the winter. Instead of just plowed and sanded when icy. You can see the damage it does to the daily drivers of the 3rd gen 4runners. It wont be 5 years from now and none will be left around here because of the rust damage as only a handful are left here now. Mostly only the later 3rd gens are left as the salt ate them all up. I will be able to say I saved 5 though. So I can be proud of that I guess. :]

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[JZiggy]

Elastomers used in boots and seals have a glass transition temperature (Tg) that is often in the -30F range, though it depends on material. Above this temperature a rubber is, well, rubbery but below it begins to be hard like a plastic. A seal doesn't seal well below its Tg and I would guess that a boot would get hard and could crack.

 

[Hopeless Diamond]

Elastomers used in boots and seals have a glass transition temperature (Tg) that is often in the -30F range, though it depends on material. Above this temperature a rubber is, well, rubbery but below it begins to be hard like a plastic. A seal doesn't seal well below its Tg and I would guess that a boot would get hard and could crack.

Thanks for the info, that helps quantify things to look out for and understand what to be aware of for ultra cold conditions. While I'm not taking the 4R, we're doing the Alcan 5000 Rally this February. It leaves Seattle, heads up through BC, all the way up to Tuktoyaktuk on the coast of the Arctic Ocean (technically the Barents Sea), over and down through Fairbanks to Anchorage (in 10 days). I would assume it's probable we'll hit some low temps along that route. Still deciding whether to take the F350 or my wife's 2dr Rubicon. While both are straight axle and don't have CV boots to worry about, there's still a lot of seals and other rubber components that can cause problems. And, as others have said, coming from a moisture laden mild climate, the vehicle won't have a chance to de-moisturize before hitting cold temps.

 

[Kanoe]

Has the climate changed in the Yukon?

I've only been there for 20 years, but it seems to be. We had brief periods of -50 C when I first got there, we don't seem to anymore. Now we might get -40 or -45 as the winter low and that doesn't always happen. The cold of Jack London and Robert Service seems to be a thing of the past and maybe that's OK.

 

[raKnizek]

I will say that I had absolutely zero problems in cold temperatures with my Surf (JDM 4Runner). I had temperatures down to -42º C and cold started it from -31º C (these are air temperatures, not with wind-chill of course) and the truck was perfect. It's a common vehicle out in the coldest parts of Russia where Japanese cars are pretty much the only ones used. I'm just wondering why my new, genuine UBJs wore so quickly.

EO

You do any special prep? Battery at least?

 

[eurasiaoverland]

You do any special prep? Battery at least?

Odyssey battery with a simple jacket of foil backed insulation
Russian fireproof engine blanket
Radiator blanked out by about 75%
All synthetic transmission fluids
0W20 engine oil
2:1 antifreeze mix
Double windscreen, as in one windscreen placed over the fitted original with an air-gap, sealed off with tape (to stop fogging - never even needed to blow air onto the screen to demist - great Russian trick)
Eberspacher D2 cabin heater

And that's it. No block heater or battery heater, as there is nothing to plug them into out in the wild. If I was away from a city and sleeping in the car, and it was below -30º C, I would leave the engine ticking over all night, though I am confident it would start from cold in -35º C, and probably even -40º C. When staying in a city, I would usually put it in a heated garage.

EO

 

[3bears]

got my block heater in (OEM Yota) new Toyota antifreeze mixed to minus 50, new oil change ( synthetic). Noticed my rear KYB's are starting to leak, maybe have 45k on them. winter tire change over.
When I was doing an oil change on my sons 2017 Taco the other day I noticed it had block heater, oil pan and tran pan heaters. ( so 3 heaters) I asked him about it, he had no clue, its how it came from the dealer and he is 1st owner. He just knew he had one plug and figured it was for a block heater. He did not see splitter in engine compartment where all plugs into. This is nearly his first time opening the hood, as its been under warranty and oil changes/service were free for first 2 years. That ended about 5k ago

 

[Kanoe]

When I was doing an oil change on my sons 2017 Taco the other day I noticed it had block heater, oil pan and tran pan heaters. ( so 3 heaters) I asked him about it, he had no clue, its how it came from the dealer and he is 1st owner. He just knew he had one plug and figured it was for a block heater. He did not see splitter in engine compartment where all plugs into. This is nearly his first time opening the hood, as its been under warranty and oil changes/service were free for first 2 years. That ended about 5k ago

In Whitehorse we get similar weather to you up there in Fairbanks, although likely even a little warmer than you on average.

It is the standard to run the full compliment of heaters, at least if you are a mechanically inclined person who cares about the vehicle. I always run the block heater, battery blanket, oil pan heater and tranny pan heater (if an auto trans). Connect them up to a 4 way extension cord behind the grill and bring the one thick cord out. With this set up you only need 3-4 hours on a timer to warm the truck up in the morning. It's worth the investment if you intend to be there for a while, seriously cuts down on the warm up idle time needed. The battery blanket and pan heaters are all pretty cheap and easy to install. I like the small 75 to 100 watt stick on pan heaters that use high temp silicone/gasket maker to stick on.

With this set up I would only leave it plugged in all night if it was hitting -50. To be honest it is mostly the corolla we drive in the winter and she works a champ. 4runner has the same set up in case she is needed.

 

[3bears]

In Whitehorse we get similar weather to you up there in Fairbanks, although likely even a little warmer than you on average.

It is the standard to run the full compliment of heaters, at least if you are a mechanically inclined person who cares about the vehicle. I always run the block heater, battery blanket, oil pan heater and tranny pan heater (if an auto trans). Connect them up to a 4 way extension cord behind the grill and bring the one thick cord out. With this set up you only need 3-4 hours on a timer to warm the truck up in the morning. It's worth the investment if you intend to be there for a while, seriously cuts down on the warm up idle time needed. The battery blanket and pan heaters are all pretty cheap and easy to install. I like the small 75 to 100 watt stick on pan heaters that use high temp silicone/gasket maker to stick on.

With this set up I would only leave it plugged in all night if it was hitting -50. To be honest it is mostly the corolla we drive in the winter and she works a champ. 4runner has the same set up in case she is needed.

thanks
many many months ago when I was thinking of moving to Alaska to live with youngest son and family and asked questions, I think it was you that gave me that advice. Should have listened and done it when it was easy and when it was warm outside...we even joked about rolla wagons....one of the best cars I have owned.
got to go to the lower 48 this spring, maybe I should find one and bring it back

 

[3bears]

In Whitehorse we get similar weather to you up there in Fairbanks, although likely even a little warmer than you on average.

It is the standard to run the full compliment of heaters, at least if you are a mechanically inclined person who cares about the vehicle. I always run the block heater, battery blanket, oil pan heater and tranny pan heater (if an auto trans). Connect them up to a 4 way extension cord behind the grill and bring the one thick cord out. With this set up you only need 3-4 hours on a timer to warm the truck up in the morning. It's worth the investment if you intend to be there for a while, seriously cuts down on the warm up idle time needed. The battery blanket and pan heaters are all pretty cheap and easy to install. I like the small 75 to 100 watt stick on pan heaters that use high temp silicone/gasket maker to stick on.

With this set up I would only leave it plugged in all night if it was hitting -50. To be honest it is mostly the corolla we drive in the winter and she works a champ. 4runner has the same set up in case she is needed.

just ordered those glue on KATZ heaters for oil and tranny pans, from what I have read, a battery heater is ok, but neither of my sons vehicles have them ( taco and f250 ford)
thanks again for your help

 

[Kanoe]

just ordered those glue on KATZ heaters for oil and tranny pans, from what I have read, a battery heater is ok, but neither of my sons vehicles have them ( taco and f250 ford)
thanks again for your help

No trouble. I've always used the orange pad heaters called Alaska pads because all the auto stores stock them. Likely the KATZ is the same. Edit: Just took a look. Same thing. Just pay attention to wattage vs. oil capacity.

As for the battery blanket, personal preference. They just wrap around the battery so install is minutes and they only use 50w so not very much more. They do keep the battery temp up, but is is needed? Likely not. I use these ones below:
Temro 50W Battery Warmer | Canadian Tire

Yes, the corolla is a pretty great car. It sure requires a lot less time and money than the 4runner. We managed to find a rust free wagon in Super Red 2 so I'm going to hang onto it. Only issue is that the 7afe is an oil burner so have to keep an eye on it.