Doug Thorley headers for 5TH Gens

^ It depends on the code. P0420 doesn’t affect your engine. That is the code for the secondary O2 sensor. However if it is pretty much any other code (especially the primary O2 sensor) your engine will run in “limp” mode. Ultimately it will probably result in some sort of engine damage, excessive wear, or maybe just really bad fuel milage. Typicaly when the ECU can’t properly determine the air/fuel mixture it dumps fuel to make sure it doesn‘t run lean. This is ok for a very short while but will eventually cause problems due to carbon build up

BTW: If others tell you it’s ok to drop in the headers and sensor simulators and everything will be ok, they are just wrong. Clearly they don’t have a proper understanding of engine fuel mixtures and how the ECU operates. Simulators are ONLY to be used for the post-cat sensors.
 
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I know its not headers but I put the urd y-pipe & got rid of back cats & bought o2 sim but really never needed it so just sayin that being said someone posted about newer 14'above needing something on the down tube header ?
 
So here's a tutorial in 5th Gen 4Runner exhaust mods pieced together from research & experience.
Where || is a bolted connection, | clamped connection, and > is a flow within the same piece or pieces welded together.

OEM Configuration:
Engine || OEM Manifold > 1st O2 > 1st Cat || 2nd O2 > 2nd Cat > Y-pipe || Mid-pipe > Muffler || Tailpipe

Shorty Headers: || Shorties > 1st O2 > OEM 1st Cat ||
Long Tube Headers: || Headers > 1st O2 ||
Y-pipe: || 2nd O2 > Y-pipe ||
Cat-back Exhaust: || Mid-pipe | Muffler | Tailpipe

Aftermarket parts will replace sections between the bolted connections. Headers replace the OEM manifolds, Y-pipe for Y-pipe, and Cat-back for the Mid-pipe and further to the rear.

Shorty headers are usually the simplest option for headers. However, on the 4Runner and many other modern vehicles, the OEM Manifolds are integrated with the first catalytic converter. Which means to use most shorties, you would have to cut the 1st cat off of the manifold and either a) add a flange to connect to shorties or b) weld the OEM 1st cat onto the new shorties. This is a lot of work, and gives lots of chance for the alignment of the exhaust to be slightly off. Alternatively you could weld "straight pipe" without cats to reach the Y-pipe, but at that point you're better off to buy Long Tube Headers.

Long tube headers are a better option for power and installation, however, they completely remove the 1st cat from the truck. Because the first cat is between the two O2 sensors on each side, when the rear O2 sensor reading is the same as the front O2 sensor it will throw a CEL and code for the cat not working properly.
This is the issue that I've been having. Tuesday added code P0430 to the previous P0420. Gadget got tech support in touch with me and we're going to reprogram the UCON-EMS to account for this next week.
Another work-around for this is the O2 simulator, which feeds the ECU what it wants to see from the 2nd (or downstream) O2 sensors. While this will prevent a CEL and codes, it doesn't reprogram the ECU for the added exhaust capability hence you won't see the full potential of the headers which is what [MENTION=234088]spoonmectr[/MENTION] is getting at.

For those wondering the only difference in headers between 2010-2012 & 2013+ is the addition of the port for the Air Injection system on the header. Otherwise they should be the same.

[MENTION=78968]oljedi11950[/MENTION] The URD Y-pipe replaces the 2nd cat which are downstream of all the O2 sensors. Replacing the Y-pipe, even removing the 2nd cats, won't generate a code in any way. So the O2 Sim isn't required for a Y-pipe or cat-back swap. The biggest appeal of the URD y-pipe is relocating the section which crosses over from the driver's side. On the OEM it's flattened out pretty badly and supported with a smaller tube inside the flattened section, whereas the URD y-pipe crosses under the transmission at full diameter deleting that flow restriction.

Cat-back is also downstream of all the O2 sensors so shouldn't throw any codes replacing that either. The catch for the 4Runner is that almost all the aftermarket (URD excepted) are the same 2.5" diameter pipe as OEM.

[MENTION=255155]AStraughn1[/MENTION]
With a) shorties which have the OEM 1st cats welded to them
OR b) long tube headers with an O2 Simulator installed
you shouldn't receive any codes or CEL.
As for a code reader, just about any OBDII reader with write/erase capability should be able to reset any codes you receive. The one I'm using in this case is an inexpensive $20 reader from Ollie's, so if it's stolen from the truck it's no big loss. It is good enough to read and reset codes.
This will not fix the problem, just make the CEL go away. After an appropriate engine run time, the CEL will return since you never fixed the problem. That's exactly what I've been doing the past 2 weeks. I cleared the codes the first time they came up, but I didn't add the cats back into the system between the sensors or an O2 Sim.
So the CEL and codes came back. I cleared them again without changing anything and they've returned again. I could install an O2 Sim to prevent this code from returning, however, the UCON-EMS box that's plugged into the ECU has the ability to override the ECU for the CEL, ignoring certain codes. That's what tech support and I will be working on next week, with a laptop connected to the UCON-EMS.

Remember that a combustion engine is mostly a big air pump. More air in, means more air out. Changing the exhaust without adding a bigger intake will help it flow better, but you're not going to see full realization of the performance without changing both. Also if you're not telling the ECU that you made changes, you're not going to see the power the manufacturer claims. While the Toyota ECU isn't as of yet programmable, that doesn't mean you can't get around some of its limitations with black boxes like URD's UCON-EMS, or MAF Calibrator.
 
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I've been talking to Mat over at OVT, and he is going to start work on our 5th gen 4runners. He said when he get's things caught up, he would send me a handheld. We will see where this goes.

Haha, I recognize that name well, after highly tuning my 2010 Miata before I sold it to get this 2018.

I put my Miata tune on at 35k miles, and it was doing fine when I sold it at 121k miles.
 
So here's a tutorial in 4Runner exhaust mods pieced together from research & experience.
Where || is a bolted connection, | clamped connection, and > is a flow within the same piece or pieces welded together.

OEM Configuration:
Engine || OEM Manifold > 1st O2 > 1st Cat || 2nd O2 > 2nd Cat > Y-pipe || Mid-pipe > Muffler || Tailpipe

Shorty Headers: || Shorties > 1st O2 > OEM 1st Cat ||
Long Tube Headers: || Headers > 1st O2 ||
Y-pipe: || 2nd O2 > Y-pipe ||
Cat-back Exhaust: || Mid-pipe | Muffler | Tailpipe

Aftermarket parts will replace sections between the bolted connections. Headers replace the OEM manifolds, Y-pipe for Y-pipe, and Cat-back for the Mid-pipe and further to the rear.

Shorty headers are usually the simplest option for headers. However, on the 4Runner and many other modern vehicles, the OEM Manifolds are integrated with the first catalytic converter. Which means to use most shorties, you would have to cut the 1st cat off of the manifold and either a) add a flange to connect to shorties or b) weld the OEM 1st cat onto the new shorties. This is a lot of work, and gives lots of chance for the alignment of the exhaust to be slightly off. Alternatively you could weld "straight pipe" without cats to reach the Y-pipe, but at that point you're better off to buy Long Tube Headers.

Long tube headers are a better option for power and installation, however, they completely remove the 1st cat from the truck. Because the first cat is between the two O2 sensors on each side, when the rear O2 sensor reading is the same as the front O2 sensor it will throw a CEL and code for the cat not working properly.
This is the issue that I've been having. Tuesday added code P0430 to the previous P0420. Gadget got tech support in touch with me and we're going to reprogram the UCON-EMS to account for this next week.
Another work-around for this is the O2 simulator, which feeds the ECU what it wants to see from the 2nd (or downstream) O2 sensors. While this will prevent a CEL and codes, it doesn't reprogram the ECU for the added exhaust capability hence you won't see the full potential of the headers which is what [MENTION=234088]spoonmectr[/MENTION] is getting at.

For those wondering the only difference in headers between 2010-2012 & 2013+ is the addition of the port for the Air Injection system on the header. Otherwise they should be the same.

[MENTION=78968]oljedi11950[/MENTION] The URD Y-pipe replaces the 2nd cat which are downstream of all the O2 sensors. Replacing the Y-pipe, even removing the 2nd cats, won't generate a code in any way. So the O2 Sim isn't required for a Y-pipe or cat-back swap. The biggest appeal of the URD y-pipe is relocating the section which crosses over from the driver's side. On the OEM it's flattened out pretty badly and supported with a smaller tube inside the flattened section, whereas the URD y-pipe crosses under the transmission at full diameter deleting that flow restriction.

Cat-back is also downstream of all the O2 sensors so shouldn't throw any codes replacing that either. The catch for the 4Runner is that almost all the aftermarket (URD excepted) are the same 2.5" diameter pipe as OEM.

[MENTION=255155]AStraughn1[/MENTION]
With a) shorties which have the OEM 1st cats welded to them
OR b) long tube headers with an O2 Simulator installed
you shouldn't receive any codes or CEL.
As for a code reader, just about any OBDII reader with write/erase capability should be able to reset any codes you receive. The one I'm using in this case is an inexpensive $20 reader from Ollie's, so if it's stolen from the truck it's no big loss. It is good enough to read and reset codes.
This will not fix the problem, just make the CEL go away. After an appropriate engine run time, the CEL will return since you never fixed the problem. That's exactly what I've been doing the past 2 weeks. I cleared the codes the first time they came up, but I didn't add the cats back into the system between the sensors or an O2 Sim.
So the CEL and codes came back. I cleared them again without changing anything and they've returned again. I could install an O2 Sim to prevent this code from returning, however, the UCON-EMS box that's plugged into the ECU has the ability to override the ECU for the CEL, ignoring certain codes. That's what tech support and I will be working on next week, with a laptop connected to the UCON-EMS.

Remember that a combustion engine is mostly a big air pump. More air in, means more air out. Changing the exhaust without adding a bigger intake will help it flow better, but you're not going to see full realization of the performance without changing both. Also if you're not telling the ECU that you made changes, you're not going to see the power the manufacturer claims. While the Toyota ECU isn't as of yet programmable, that doesn't mean you can't get around some of its limitations with black boxes like URD's UCON-EMS, or MAF Calibrator.

Got it @frigginidiot however just as an fyi on the 03-09 we did y-pipe on son's 05 & it popped 0420 pretty soon after ! Then went with urd headers & since then been fine . I was mentioning all this because I had seen a member posting about his 16 17 18 needing a certain type header because of dif setup from older models . Certainly wasn't dissing you or your knowledge :blah::vader:
 
Certainly wasn't dissing you or your knowledge :blah::vader:

I figured you know about as much as I knew about the new generation ones, but seems the same questions keep coming up in several different threads. Hopefully having a basic tutorial somewhere in this forum should help.

I did get to work with the folks who made the UCON-EMS today. Things have been resolved so I shouldn't see a repeat of the codes. I was also instructed to send them back a couple data files, one while cruising the highway at 75mph, the other at WOT through the end of 3rd gear. The latter turned out to be a very fun but quick acceleration up to 95mph! :lookout:
 
I figured you know about as much as I knew about the new generation ones, but seems the same questions keep coming up in several different threads. Hopefully having a basic tutorial somewhere in this forum should help.

I did get to work with the folks who made the UCON-EMS today. Things have been resolved so I shouldn't see a repeat of the codes. I was also instructed to send them back a couple data files, one while cruising the highway at 75mph, the other at WOT through the end of 3rd gear. The latter turned out to be a very fun but quick acceleration up to 95mph! :lookout:


Looking to throw some headers on my 4Runner I’ve got the Urd charger. How have they been long term?
 
Looking to throw some headers on my 4Runner I’ve got the Urd charger. How have they been long term?

Honestly the URD LT turned out to be a lot of headache.
First the y-pipe wouldn't stay sealed to the headers, fixed by adding a flex section to the driver's side of the y-pipe. This was caused by having engine with 50k+ miles on it before swapping to headers.
Spent months trying to eliminate the P0420-P0421 codes. iTronix (made the UCON-EMS for URD SC kit) wasn't able to help me code them out. Gadget specifically said not to use the Rear O2 Simulator with the SC kit. Ended up adding right angle spacers with tiny catalytic converters in them to the rear O2 bungs.
Was fine as that for a good long time.
In the last month I've been getting an intermittent P013C code. Not sure if a sensor is going bad or the ECU has finally figured out the right angle adapter is causing a delay and doesn't like it. Since truck hit 100k and I never replaced the sensors I've started there. That's happening this week.
Advice? Do the extra work and get the shorties. The headache of alignment will be a one time thing instead of the potentially repeating cat-codes over the years.
 
Just to double check for the 5th generation (2021) the Y-pipe and cat back should not throw any codes and do not need the O2 Sim sensor{s). Or will the Y-Pipe still need O2 sim.
 

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