Dual Battery System not working

[boodabill]

Gonna look at the fuses tomorrow also after getting this helpful email from Dirty parts:

Bill -

You should here a “click” from the relay when you switch between the Dual On and the Dual Off when the key is “on”, and between the Emer On and Dual Off anytime. If there is no noise, it is more likely a fuse is bad (there is one 2 amp in line near the relay itself for the Emer On circuit (constant hot 12V), and one in the dash panel fuse box for the Dual On circuit (key-on 12V) than a bad relay, but anything is possible. If the fuses are good, connections are correct, and no click noise either way, check the ground wire at the realy itself – there should be a small 14 gauge black wire that goes to either battery or chassis ground coming off the harness ground connection on the relay.

I’ve attached a couple of diagram files for the wiring to help you check it.

If the circuit connecting the auxiliary battery to the system has a bad fuse, or connection, the second battery will not charge when the vehicle is running – eventually it would discharge.

Larry

 

[boodabill]

gonna look at the fuses tomorrow also after getting this helpful email from dirty parts:

bill -

you should here a “click” from the relay when you switch between the dual on and the dual off when the key is “on”, and between the emer on and dual off anytime. If there is no noise, it is more likely a fuse is bad (there is one 2 amp in line near the relay itself for the emer on circuit (constant hot 12v), and one in the dash panel fuse box for the dual on circuit (key-on 12v) than a bad relay, but anything is possible. If the fuses are good, connections are correct, and no click noise either way, check the ground wire at the realy itself – there should be a small 14 gauge black wire that goes to either battery or chassis ground coming off the harness ground connection on the relay.

I’ve attached a couple of diagram files for the wiring to help you check it.

If the circuit connecting the auxiliary battery to the system has a bad fuse, or connection, the second battery will not charge when the vehicle is running – eventually it would discharge.

Larry

 

[gshadow325]

Have you taken it back to them and complained? I would be shocked if they didn't make things right.

When problems occur I would call and ask the shop to check it out. I would not call and complain and start pointing fingers at the installation facility. This tactic probably will get you no where. I know when customers do that to me, I am less inclined to offer my help.

back on topic

ground and ignition is usually interchangeable. it just needs to see opposite conditions. if ignition post has 12 volt positive then the ground would be negative or vice versa.

grab a test light. while the car is off see what posts you get power.

you should get power 12 volt on battery 1 and 2. nothing on ignition wire and ground wire.

while the car is turned on, you should have 12volt power on only one of the small posts.

if you have power on one of the smaller posts while the car is OFF, then remove that wire. then retest to see if that post has power. if it does then relay is bad. if it doesnt, check for power on that wire that was attached to the small post. if it has power then that wire needs to be rewired to a switched 12 volt power source.

"thank you for calling tech support, please fill out the survey after this phone call"

LOL

 

[Cheers!]

When I say taken it back to complain, I mean have you dropped it off at the shop?

If I paid for them to install it, I would just call them to let them know of the problem experienced, drop the vehicle off and ask when I could pick it back up.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[gshadow325]

When I say taken it back to complain, I mean have you dropped it off at the shop?

If I paid for them to install it, I would just call them to let them know of the problem experienced, drop the vehicle off and ask when I could pick it back up.

Nothing more, nothing less.

i understand, using the term "call them and complain" is a thorn in my side since i do everything aftermarket. [MENTION=112670]Cheers![/MENTION] if you put it like that in the first place, i would do nothing but agree 100000% with you stuff happens and things break or wear out or mistakes can be made.

 

[boodabill]

OK. Below is a photo of my relay. All the wiring is correct and secure, which is a compliment to the mechanics, because I have been going back and forth on washboard dirt roads, random pot holes that change from day to day, just bouncing the heck out this truck.

I traced each wire except the black, red and white going to the dashboard switch.

I am still needing to find a way to safely remove the fuse to check it. I don't know if I need a special tool and I don't want to yank it out.

I do hear a click when switching between settings when the car is not running.

I am still wondering if I have some parasitic electrical draw? Looking for a voltmeter to test the connections.

 

[gshadow325]

real quick way is to check is get a friend. one person puts their hand on top of the relay and see if they feel a click thud or anything when you turn the key from off to run position. not the start position. if a click is felt from the relay when you turn it on, then the isolator is good. you will have to look else where for your problem. possibly bad battery and or bad connections at battery.

klets get some pictures posted on the battery terminals of battery a then of battery b so we can further diagnose this problem from the comfort of our homes

 

[boodabill]

real quick way is to check is get a friend. one person puts their hand on top of the relay and see if they feel a click thud or anything when you turn the key from off to run position. not the start position. if a click is felt from the relay when you turn it on, then the isolator is good. you will have to look else where for your problem. possibly bad battery and or bad connections at battery.

lets get some pictures posted on the battery terminals of battery a then of battery b so we can further diagnose this problem from the comfort of our homes

I am hearing and feeling the relay click and thud. Now I'm thinking I could have a short circuit anywhere in the miles of electrical wiring...?

Here are pics of battery A (w/ fuse connection) and battery B w/connections and ground visible.

 

[burnoil]

I should have mentioned the fuses earlier...doh.

No special tool needed to yank the fuses. They are pretty standard. There is one inline with the grey wiring loom going into the cab to the switch. It is inside of a small black fuse holder with a lid of sorts. You can trace the lines from the relay towards the firewall until you see it. There is also another one under the dash near where they got interior power to power the switch. The fuses were grey 2 Amp spade-type in my kit.

If you are hearing the relay going on and off then the fuses may not be the culprit, but good to check them anyhow in case of a short or something.

 

[boodabill]

I should have mentioned the fuses earlier...doh.

No special tool needed to yank the fuses. They are pretty standard. There is one inline with the grey wiring loom going into the cab to the switch. It is inside of a small black fuse holder with a lid of sorts. You can trace the lines from the relay towards the firewall until you see it. There is also another one under the dash near where they got interior power to power the switch. The fuses were grey 2 Amp spade-type in my kit.

If you are hearing the relay going on and off then the fuses may not be the culprit, but good to check them anyhow in case of a short or something.

Dig it. Will try mañana. The mechanic I wanted to help me trace short circuits couldn't make it due to rains flooding the Baja arroyos (sans 4Runners or Tacomas etc they have to wait at best, or postpone).

 

[JDWX4]

I used Odyssey Batteries in my Mustang drag car for a while for the weight savings etc, and had the worst luck with them. I'll proffer I let them go dead sometimes and possibly ruined them charging them back up, but I certainly went through a few. Did better with Optimas, but would forget and let them go too dead over the winter and they didn't take to that well.

Went back to a common lead acid and my life was better. Seems I can't hurt them, they were more forgiving. I obviously can't be trusted to properly care for the Odyssey batts.

But nonetheless, once I messed up an Odyssey, it was never cool again. Would take charges, seem ok, and then arbitrarily just go dead. I'll imagine it was shorting inside under vibration etc. Just my experience. I believe they're good batteries. But, I don't do well with them.

 

[boodabill]

I used Odyssey Batteries in my Mustang drag car for a while for the weight savings etc, and had the worst luck with them. I'll proffer I let them go dead sometimes and possibly ruined them charging them back up, but I certainly went through a few. Did better with Optimas, but would forget and let them go too dead over the winter and they didn't take to that well.

Went back to a common lead acid and my life was better. Seems I can't hurt them, they were more forgiving. I obviously can't be trusted to properly care for the Odyssey batts.

But nonetheless, once I messed up an Odyssey, it was never cool again. Would take charges, seem ok, and then arbitrarily just go dead. I'll imagine it was shorting inside under vibration etc. Just my experience. I believe they're good batteries. But, I don't do well with them.

This could also be the culprit. Due to pilot error I drained my Odysseys (why both i don't know). Now they could be quitting on me if left uncharged.

 

[boodabill]

Here's the latest dialog with Dirty Parts:

Larry,

Based on your questions, both batteries are good--tested with voltmeter car on and off, all fuses are good, all wiring is good. I'm hearing clicks, and changing from Dual on to Emer changes the voltage slightly on the relay, so everything seems to be communicating as it should.

Is there anything else you can think of that would drain both batteries when 4Runner is not in use for a while?

I still don't understand why the Emer battery would ever get drained if system is correct.

Your response is appreciated.

Bill

On Aug 13, 2014, at Aug 13,1:10 PM, Info at Dirty Parts <[email protected]> wrote:

Bill -

That sounds the most likely situation, unless a battery is bad.

The fuses can be pulled out of their holders, or use a test light to see if they have power to both sides.

Do you have a voltmeter available ? If so, you can check the voltage at the main and aux batt with the car off (~12.6V), and then with the car running (13.5-14.5V). If the charging voltage does not increase from the resting voltage on both, the alternator is not charging. If only the aux batt stays the same, then the relay is not activating.

Larry

 

[boodabill]

All batteries ok, even after being drained twice.

Car off (both a bit low, starting to drain)



Car on (normal


Relay was responsive as it should be


Fuses all checked √

Could be car alarm system draining both batteries?

 

[Antman]

Did you check the fuses with a continuity tester, or just a visual inspection? I have had fuses that looked fine before that were actually blown- especially true with low amperage fuses.

At this point you need to get down to the nitty gritty.

 

[burnoil]

Replace the fuses just for kicks. Rule them out. Also make sure the sockets are free from anything like dirt, metal shavings...whatever.

Also make sure the grey wiring loom isn't damaged where it goes through the firewall. Not sure if they used an existing grommet to get through the firewall or through a bare hole in the metal. Sharp edges there, maybe? I am not sure if that could cause a drain without tripping such a low amp fuse. Heck, check the insulation of all the wires/cables.

No cracks in the batteries? Terminal posts are solid and not loose where they come out of the top of the battery?

 

[LXRunner]

<<I do hear a click when switching between settings when the car is not running.>> from post #26 :

Assuming that all parts are good and wiring is correct,
I can see that RED wire coming from switch is connected the way it,s HOT all time.
In that case, if you will park your car with switch in ON position, the battery isolator solenoid still engaged and will drain both batteries, taken current
up to 0.5 amp (approximately). In other word, it will drain your batteries up to 12 A/Hr each day.

To correct the problem, RED wire from switch should be connected to the point that has power ONLY when IGNITION turned ON.

 

[boodabill]

<<I do hear a click when switching between settings when the car is not running.>> from post #26 :

Assuming that all parts are good and wiring is correct,
I can see that RED wire coming from switch is connected the way it,s HOT all time.
In that case, if you will park your car with switch in ON position, the battery isolator solenoid still engaged and will drain both batteries, taken current
up to 0.5 amp (approximately). In other word, it will drain your batteries up to 12 A/Hr each day.

To correct the problem, RED wire from switch should be connected to the point that has power ONLY when IGNITION turned ON.

Which red wire, may I ask? There are two, one on top one below. I traced them and they are both seemingly connected as per the diagram...

 

[boodabill]

Did you check the fuses with a continuity tester, or just a visual inspection? I have had fuses that looked fine before that were actually blown- especially true with low amperage fuses.

At this point you need to get down to the nitty gritty.

I don't have a continuity tester, was going to take it into Toyota for that. But meanwhile, LXRunner thinks the wiring is wrong and always hot, thus draining the batteries...

 

[boodabill]

<<

To correct the problem, RED wire from switch should be connected to the point that has power ONLY when IGNITION turned ON.

LXRunner, where is the "power ONLY" point?