Dual Battery Systems

[DannyLlama]

I have been doing quite a bit of reading online about dual battery systems and possibly driving

I cam across this thread at expedition portal, where one dude (God bless his heart) broke it down to 5 options, in regards to how to hook up the batteries and which systems. There is also a ton of other information on this thread, I thought it would be helpful to other folks on here that are or might embarking on the dual battery journey.

Here is the full thread
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-35667.html

I will be quoting what he has provided as options in independent posts, I think it's easier that way and less straining on the eyes.

Automated system manufacture list. Feel free to send me info to add/update.

IBS ($400) - http://ibs-tech.ch/en/products/dual-battery-system.html
Write up by [MENTION=54511]AutoRotate[/MENTION] http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/142372-blue-sea-ibs-dual-battery-project.html

National Luna ($400) - http://www.nationalluna.com/dualmon.htm

Kodiak ($200) - http://www.kodiakinc.com/powersystems/dualbatterykits.html

T-max ($120) - http://www.amazon.com/T-MAX-47-3800-Dual-Battery-System/dp/B0026JCNJE
Write up [MENTION=4307]matoolie[/MENTION] http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/172425-2014-second-battery-install-complete.html

Reported issue http://www.toyota-4runner.org/2557098-post31.html

Dirty parts dual battery kit ($370) - http://www.dirtyparts.com/store/detail.cfm/DUAL-BATTERY-KIT-FJ-CRUISER/pid-83094

CTEK dual battery http://smartercharger.com/products/dcdc/ctek-d250s-dual/
Write up by [MENTION=121947]coulter6[/MENTION] http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/222935-ctek-dual-battery-setup.html

Write ups on un-intellegent dual battery install

1. [MENTION=47340]Titanpat57[/MENTION] Write up -http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/125772-dual-batteries-cheap.html

2. [MENTION=65614]Antman[/MENTION] Write up http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/92013-antmans-thread-76.html#post1591642
I really like the Idea of what antman did. It leaves options to how to wire the batteries and which display unit to choose from, if any. What I like most about it is that, any part can be replaced independently and not have to ship the whole system back to the vendor.

To accomplish this, you will need the following items:

PAC 500 Relay Isolator - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001YIPXR2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2800T7NFW2XOT&coliid=IOYKMKNSQL4FQ

Cheaper by $10 here - http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_23699_PAC_PAC-500.aspx

2 X ANL Fuse holders http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KIR8M0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2800T7NFW2XOT&coliid=I2OANL3YQ3DQX1

2 X ANL Fuses http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005EUTLYW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2800T7NFW2XOT&coliid=I15HF5VJ4N8CJS

Marine Heat Shrink Tubing

10 X 2 Guage ring terminals http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K7GQ37Q/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2800T7NFW2XOT&coliid=I3O90SUAYF87WO

Wire loom that fits over 2 Guage wire http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-x-7-ft-protective-wire-wrap-66986.html

2 Gauge copper - http://www.harborfreight.com/300amp-6ft-inverter-cable-set-69537.html

2 X battery post clamps

Battery terminal covers

DPDT switch - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rocker-switch-660B-12-volt-AUXILIARY-BATTERY-CARLING-Laser-etched-Wrangler-Yukon-/261467108582?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3ce0a774e6

Optional:

LED Indicators - http://www.ebay.com/itm/6v-12v-24v-Programmable-LED-Battery-level-voltage-monitor-meter-indicator-J-/190944256307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c752a2133
Gammatronix (Relay) LED http://www.ebay.com/itm/6v-12v-24v-Programmable-LED-Battery-level-voltage-monitor-meter-indicator-J-/190944256307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c752a2133

 

[DannyLlama]

Option 1 Manual Switch

1. a manual high-current switch with A/B/BOTH selectors (a "boat switch")
- there are no "smarts" to the system, it only does exactly what you tell it, this can be good and bad (good that you have full control, but bad as you could leave it set to "both" and leave something on thereby depleting both batteries and having no backup)

- when in "both" mode, the batteries are not isolated in any way, i.e. if one is a different physical type that rests at a lower voltage, it will always be trying to discharge the higher resting voltage one

- good in the fact that you wouldn't have to remove a completely shorted battery physically from the system. i.e. you could just set the switch to "B" if "A" had completely shorted out.

- doesn't work well remotely... i.e. you need to mount the switch near the batteries or else you are going to have to run 3 cables of some very large gauge wire all the way to wherever the switch is (i've seen it done, but not practical for most people)

 

[DannyLlama]

Option 2 Boat Switch

2. a "boat switch" and a battery isolator[/B] (such as from sure power or perfect switch)
- all the same characteristics as just a "boat switch" but without the worry of one battery "bleeding" the other, the batteries are isolated in that only charge current goes to both of them, but no current transfers between them

- i my opinion this would always be the way to go in a completely manual system, you wouldn't want to just go with the boat switch when you can pickup and isolator to use with it for pretty cheap

 

[DannyLlama]

Option 3 Automated system IBS Etc..

3. an intelligently controlled solenoid system (national luna or IBS for example)
- in this case a solenoid (high current relay) acts as the "boat switch", except in all systems i know of, you only have "A" and "BOTH" settings. the big plus is that you run a small cable to a remote controller to set the state of the solenoid instead of having to run giant cable in order to relocate the "boat" switch (and the solenoid stays near the batteries).

- the intelligence is in the form of a small microcontroller that can monitor either ignition state and/or time and/or each battery's voltage, and based on that information set the solenoid switch to "A" or "BOTH"

- - when i say monitor ignition-state/time/voltage, it depends on the system. some merely tie the batteries in parallel (i.e. the "BOTH" setting) when the car is running and for a few moments after the car has been shut off, then it sets everything back to the main battery (i.e. the "A" setting). other systems may be smarter and actually look at each batteries voltage and the incoming voltage and sense that it's ok to tie them together when there's a supply voltage (i.e. the car is on) and then sense that if for any reason one of them starts to loose voltage (bad battery, whatever), it shuts off feed to that battery.

- ussually these systems have an override so that when you want to, you can manually set the batteries in parallel (the "BOTH" setting) for winching power or for starting from the backup ("B") battery.

- the only downside compared to the "boat switch" + isolator method is that in most systems you only have the "A" and "BOTH" setting, you have no pure "B" setting... i.e. if your "A" battery actually shorts out, then you will have to physically remove it from the system... you wouldn't want to switch to "BOTH" in that scenario. now if your "A" battery is just low (more typical situation), then you can safely switch to "BOTH" in order to start the car still.

- these manufactures will tell you a solenoid (high current relay) is tried and true simple switch that is less prone to failure than fancy digital switches

- national luna and IBS both offer fancy remote controllers with voltage monitors for both batteries, audible alarms, etc.

- IBS's "BOTH" setting is timer based so you can't easily leave them connected for too long. national luna's "BOTH" setting has a warning light to show you it is engaged.

- IBS's system handles 500 amps (200 continuous) whereas national luna is rated at 400 amps (85 continuous). note the continous rating is very different, might matter for when you want to tie both batteries together for a large winch.

 

[DannyLlama]

Option 4 Intelligently Controlled digital switch

. in intelligently controlled digital switch (hellroaring for example)
- pretty much the same as the intelligently controlled solenoid except that the solenoid is replaced my a modern digital switch

- these manufactures will tell you a digital switch is supposedly better technology than a solenoid which can get contacts stuck, worn, corroded, or filmed (opposite of what the solenoid people say, i tend to believe that modern solid state electronics are better than traditional high current relays, but this is personal opinion).

- hellroaring uses the voltage monitoring method of intelligent control instead of just a timer and ignition switch check.. i.e. if you alternator fails then it will sense the non input voltage and isolate your backup battery so that you aren't draining them both. a lesser system might just know that the car was runnign and therefore assume it was safe to tie the batteries together for charge when in reality it would be letting them both run dead.

- hellroaring has a remote switch module that lets you put the system in "A", Automatic, or "BOTH" but doesn not have fancy voltage monitors (you could add these yourself for cheap). it also does not have a timer circuit (so you are more likely to accidentally leave it set to "BOTH" and then potentially run both batteries down).

- hellroaring handles 500 amps (150 continuous)

- hellroaring is a fair bit less expensive than national luna or IBS, but doesn't offer nearly as fancy of controller interface

 

[DannyLlama]

Option 5 Hybrid

5. some "i did it this way" method that use pieces from the above types of systems
- i guess the ultimate system would be to use 2 digital switches (probably from perfect switch, as they supposedly have the best digital switch) and your own custom microcontroller that would allow you to have all the system sensing and control qualities of national luna/IBS/hellroaring products, but with a "B" setting too (instead of just "A" and "BOTH"). add to that your own digital voltage readouts of both batteries and custom control panel with override switches and timers and audible alarms.

 

[DannyLlama]

Battery Trays

Main battery area group 31

1. Pelfreybilt battery cage ($125)
http://www.pelfreybilt.com/#!2005battery-cage/c50f

Write up thanks to [MENTION=55815]Okki[/MENTION] http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/94578-okkis-build-thread-13.html#post1923868

2. No name brand tray ($10)
http://www.mcmaster.com/#7731k5/=12asssg



Second battery tray options:

1. Shrocckworks ($148)
http://www.shrockworks.com/Dual-Battery-Kit-for-2010-2014-FJ-Cruiser-and-5th-Generation-4Runner-pr-16275.html

2. ARB Unable to locate more information

3. Budbuilt 2010 - 2012 only ($136)
https://www.budbuilt.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=304&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=170
Write up from @ediebx http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/162864-how-budbuilt-auxiliary-battery-tray-installation.html

 

[boodabill]

I am not happy with my Wrangler Dual battery system from Dirty parts (see thread). I am not an expert but I am losing battery power on BOTH batteries when one goes out. I have it set on A. There is also a BOTH setting and a B. But setting B does not restart my dead battery. I guess it's switching over? see my post for more info:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/175487-dual-battery-system-not-working.html#post1770671

Once charged up, the B battery does start the car.

It could be my error, maybe I don't understand the system. But I though i was supposed to be a able to switch to B and "jumpstart" my car. In any case, that's what I had to do with cables. I'd be better off just carrying a cheap motorcycle battery in my car...

 

[burnoil]

When I had my FJC I installed the Dirty Parts system with 2 AGM (one regular and one marine) and it worked perfectly. Never an issue.

It was stupid simple. A 3-way switch controlling a solenoid: First switch position both batteries charge when engine is on and are automatically separated when engine is off. Middle selection on switch separated the batteries manually. The last switch selection jumped both batteries when engine was off to jump the starting battery if it had been drained for some reason.

Will do it again on my 4Runner.

 

[boodabill]

It should be a robust system. Military gauge wires and all. Then how come when set on "A" my B battery drained?

[in my post, people think it is due to faulty wiring.]

 

[burnoil]

Not sure what could be draining your battery. Can you describe what you have in detail? What you have and how it is hooked up...accessories, etc. You know...I don't want to hijack this thread. Respond over in your other post you have going.

 

[N/A]

It should be a robust system. Military gauge wires and all. Then how come when set on "A" my B battery drained?

[in my post, people think it is due to faulty wiring.]

Anyone with basic 12v electrical knowledge should be able to troubleshoot with a multimeter. You should be able to see if there is any draw on the battery when it is separated from the system, if there is you know some accessory is draining it down.

 

[DannyLlama]

Updated first post, if anyone has more to add/update, please reach out to me so I can make the corrections.
[MENTION=105154]boodabill[/MENTION] Can you link me the details to your set up? I couldn't find a good lead on "Wrangler Dual battery" setup.

 

[nevada]

1. a manual high-current switch with A/B/BOTH selectors (a "boat switch")
- there are no "smarts" to the system, it only does exactly what you tell it, this can be good and bad (good that you have full control, but bad as you could leave it set to "both" and leave something on thereby depleting both batteries and having no backup)

- when in "both" mode, the batteries are not isolated in any way, i.e. if one is a different physical type that rests at a lower voltage, it will always be trying to discharge the higher resting voltage one

- good in the fact that you wouldn't have to remove a completely shorted battery physically from the system. i.e. you could just set the switch to "B" if "A" had completely shorted out.

- doesn't work well remotely... i.e. you need to mount the switch near the batteries or else you are going to have to run 3 cables of some very large gauge wire all the way to wherever the switch is (i've seen it done, but not practical for most people)

I have this system on my truck. it has been a life saver more than once.
altho, I have forgot, and left the switch ON, thus killing BOTH batteries. but that's a pretty rare thing to happen.

im able to choose the main, or both. there is no option in MY system to choose the 2nd battery by itself.

 

[boodabill]

Updated first post, if anyone has more to add/update, please reach out to me so I can make the corrections.

[MENTION=105154]boodabill[/MENTION] Can you link me the details to your set up? I couldn't find a good lead on "Wrangler Dual battery" setup.

Here's the link:

Dirty Parts

 

[bimrunner]

Here is a link to the batteries that Kodiak includes in their kit. This is why the price is so high. KODIAK INDUSTRIES INC.

 

[bimrunner]

I have this system on my truck. it has been a life saver more than once.
altho, I have forgot, and left the switch ON, thus killing BOTH batteries. but that's a pretty rare thing to happen.

im able to choose the main, or both. there is no option in MY system to choose the 2nd battery by itself.

The thing I like about the Kodiak is that you can select both, A or B but when the ignition is off the batteries are isolated. Reduces the potential for big problems.

 

[DannyLlama]

The thing I like about the Kodiak is that you can select both, A or B but when the ignition is off the batteries are isolated. Reduces the potential for big problems.

Can't this be accomplished through custom wiring if doing a manual install?

Edit - The other thing about Kodiak is that they don't provide a monitor display option. Not from what I saw anyway. For $800, they should, even something basic.

 

[DannyLlama]

Here's the link:

Dirty Parts

Thanks, they brand it as their own and not "Wrangler"... It's listed on my sheet as dirty parts.

 

[bimrunner]

Can't this be accomplished through custom wiring if doing a manual install?

Yep. I just don't personally mind paying for plug-n-play. This implementation is just so darn easy, fits both batteries into the stock location and doesn't really require a ton of tech skills. Lol, not the cheapest and not the only way to accomplish it. Just a very well thought out system imho.

Edit. I agree about the monitoring system. They should have included one. I have thought about trying to add the LED system 1engineer (I think it was him... or maybe Antman...) did. Should be easy to put into the mix I'd think. However, each of those Odyssey batteries run about $250 so... not going to be budget no matter what.