E-locker expert(s) needed

[ShooterMcGavin]

Help?

I took my 4Runner to a little offroad test spot, to try out new suspension. I turned on my rear diff lock to climb up a steep, gravel hill, and after that the diff lock would not disengage. I ended up driving home a couple miles with the rear locked. The rear locker disengages, and re-engages, easily when done manually.

I took apart the gear side of the actuator to find that my gears and the housing are in pristine condition (268,000 miles). I removed the main gear and re-inserted it, but I did not take note of its angle. There seemed to be nothing wrong with it. Having done it again, it looks like I have put the gear back within the range of its normal rotation (shouldn't be a problem there). I don't know anything about the spring mechanism attached to the gear. I can take pictures of the spring side of the gear later, but it is all in good condition.

[URL=http://s59.photobucket.com/user/gallantR6/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150619_221556.jpg.html][/URL]

I have taken the actuator motor apart and found 1 major problem. 3 of the magnets in the motor became loose and moved over next to each other (pic). That would cause the motor to fail, so I figured I found my problem. I got a hot glue gun and glued the magnets back where they need to be. The real problem now... It still won't work. I've put it together and taken it apart many times, changing the starting position of the motor. It still isn't working.

One magnet remains glued solid, the other 3 have moved over.


I have put the brushes back where they need to be and re-sealed the unit with automotive RTV.


Cleaned the commutator with an eraser.


The armature, back in the stator, with minimal clearance. It rotates easily, with a slight amount of touching of the rotor to the magnets.


ETA: The best reference for rebuilding the actuator so far has been this:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/698966-e-locker-actuator-rebuild.html

It doesn't go into some of the details I am looking for, however. It doesn't talk about the positioning of the magnets or the function of the spring mechanism.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I took the gear apart tonight. I played around with things and changed the orientation of the internals. I bent out the contacts a little and put it all back together. Plugged it in and cycled the switch. Nothing. I'm at a loss. Wondering if I'll get this locker working again.

Here is the gear side.


Here is where I sealed the motor with RTV.

 

[Singtoe]

Does the electric motor spin when you apply electric directly to it (not through the wire harness or switches)?

These would be to two heavier wires is the plug on the locker.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I don't know yet. I think that's my next step for trouble-shooting. I think, possibly, the armature is hanging up on the magnets. I think I need to take the stator apart again and use a thinner adhesive, to make more space for the armature. I might stop at Radio Shak and get some alligator clips to make some leads for testing.

Do you think I can apply 12V directly to the motor? Hmmm, it's probably best to go through the factory wires at the actuator.

 

[JWaldz]

Did you try maneuvering the truck around to get it to disengage? Sometimes mine will lock in and out no problem and other times it takes a little bit of effort. After you press it and it doesn't engage try turning the steering wheel either way and go forward, if nothing put it in reverse and do the same. They're finicky.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Did you try maneuvering the truck around to get it to disengage? Sometimes mine will lock in and out no problem and other times it takes a little bit of effort. After you press it and it doesn't engage try turning the steering wheel either way and go forward, if nothing put it in reverse and do the same. They're finicky.

I did. I was zig-zagging forward and reverse for a while.

Right now, the actuator is out of the truck. Even when I plug it in and cycle the button, the actuator motor doesn't spin. I can hear the relay click up front. Also, if I spend some time with the button pressed and then take the actuator off again, it is hot, so it is getting power. I think my best bet is to take Singtoe's advice and apply power directly to the leads on the actuator, and figure out why the motor isn't spinning first. It might require me to take the magnets out and re-glue them in, to get more clearance for the rotor to spin ...I really really hope that does it!

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I took the motor apart again. I removed the magnets which were glued on with hot glue and used JB weld. The magnets now sit tight up against the stator housing, so the rotor can spin more freely.

I put it back together and used a direct connection to the battery. The motor still doesn't spin. Other ideas?

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I'm frustrated. I just want to drive my 4Runner. I got the lift installed and tinted the front windows, but my nicest feature is broken

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

In the second picture of my first post, you can see the loose magnets that have moved out of their original place. I took them out, cleaned them up, and JB Welded them back in the correct places. However, I don't know if I got the polarities correct, or even if the polarity is of concern for each magnet?

I spent some time putting the magnets together to find the N and S poles, turning them around as I went. As long as they faced each other, there was attraction, whether they were 66 or 69 (so to speak). That led me to believe that polarity was not a factor. It's the only thing I can think of now. I really wish I had marked the magnets before removing them. At this point, I'm not even sure how to break them free from the JB Weld anyways.

It still isn't working and I have removed and installed the actuator a dozen times. I'm ready to just quit and come to terms with the fact that my 4Runner no longer has an e-locker. I am super frustrated. I just can't spend the money to take it in to a dealership and pay $$whatever to have them replace everything It's sitting in my garage. I don't even want to work on anything else that needs fixing and I don't feel like driving it.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Any chance you could find a 4Runner in a junk yard or salvage yard (more likely) and just pull the parts you need off of it (not the whole assembly)? Just a thought.

 

[jeremyc74]

In the second picture of my first post, you can see the loose magnets that have moved out of their original place. I took them out, cleaned them up, and JB Welded them back in the correct places. However, I don't know if I got the polarities correct, or even if the polarity is of concern for each magnet?

I spent some time putting the magnets together to find the N and S poles, turning them around as I went. As long as they faced each other, there was attraction, whether they were 66 or 69 (so to speak). That led me to believe that polarity was not a factor. It's the only thing I can think of now. I really wish I had marked the magnets before removing them. At this point, I'm not even sure how to break them free from the JB Weld anyways.

It still isn't working and I have removed and installed the actuator a dozen times. I'm ready to just quit and come to terms with the fact that my 4Runner no longer has an e-locker. I am super frustrated. I just can't spend the money to take it in to a dealership and pay $$whatever to have them replace everything It's sitting in my garage. I don't even want to work on anything else that needs fixing and I don't feel like driving it.

The magnet alignment does matter. It should look like this:

If you get the poles reversed as aligned to the brushes I think it will just spin backwards, so you get a 50/50 shot of getting it right! Good luck.

Edit..they shouldn't touch the rotating assembly at all. When you get them right you should feel a pulse from the magnetic field as you turn the shaft.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Thanks for posting that. I have resolved the issue of the armature touching the magnets. Now...

How do I break the magnets free from the JB Weld?

How do I determine the proper polarity for each magnet?

 

[JWaldz]

Don't know if this helps.. You might have already seen it. Pictures in here you might get an idea.

E-locker actuator rebuild - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

 

[gamefreakgc]

Thanks for posting that. I have resolved the issue of the armature touching the magnets. Now...

How do I break the magnets free from the JB Weld?

How do I determine the proper polarity for each magnet?

Googled it and stuff does exist but sounds extremely powerful and dangerous:

Dissolving JB weld?

JB weld, as with any epoxy I've ever used, is a permanent application. It's not meant to ever come back off once the two parts have been mixed and set. So about that salvage yard...

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Don't know if this helps.. You might have already seen it. Pictures in here you might get an idea.

E-locker actuator rebuild - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Thanks! I have used that a lot in my work.

Googled it and stuff does exist but sounds extremely powerful and dangerous:

Dissolving JB weld?

JB weld, as with any epoxy I've ever used, is a permanent application. It's not meant to ever come back off once the two parts have been mixed and set. So about that salvage yard...

Shoot
All I really need is a new stator cover with the magnets installed. Thanks, I'll look into it.

 

[JWaldz]

Thanks! I have used that a lot in my work.



Shoot
All I really need is a new stator cover with the magnets installed. Thanks, I'll look into it.

No problem..

Oh, and if you find an elocker axle at the junk yard just go ahead and buy the entire 3rd (rear diff). Never know when you need a spare. They cost like 100 bucks or so, so not bad. Or just snag the entire motor and call it good. Spare motors are nice to have. Especially in a situation like you're having right now lol

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Should I try to remove the magnets that are in there now? Using a chisel or some forceful method? ...and what about acetone?

If I can get the magnets free, how can I find the different polarity for each one? They always seemed to attract to each other, unless I oriented them back-to-front (in which case they would repel).

 

[jeremyc74]

Thanks for posting that. I have resolved the issue of the armature touching the magnets. Now...

How do I break the magnets free from the JB Weld?

How do I determine the proper polarity for each magnet?

You're on your own with the JB weld! :flamethrwoer2:

As far as the magnets go, if you can get them out I think you should be able to stack them end to end. That won't tell you their polarity, but at least you can get them all going the same way. Then you can just flip two.

If I had to bet, I'd say if you look at them closely enough there will be some marks on them that are used to verify their orientation during the manufacturing process. It might be a little paint, or a small dimple, but there's probably something there.

BTW, if you have a good alternator/starter repair shop around they can probably help you out. It's not the same thing but it's so similar they'll know what's going on. They might even be able to recommend something to bond the magnets back to the case with.

 

[nevada]

Should I try to remove the magnets that are in there now? Using a chisel or some forceful method? ...and what about acetone?

If I can get the magnets free, how can I find the different polarity for each one? They always seemed to attract to each other, unless I oriented them back-to-front (in which case they would repel).

i would have a spare ready. I expect they will break. magnets are typically brittle, and break(crumble) fairly easily.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

i would haven a spare ready. I expect they will break. magnets are typically brittle, and break(crumble) fairly easily.

Yep, that's what I am expecting.

I wish I'd have had some of this information when I first tackled this project.