Efflorescence on cinder blocks in attic

[JayceeP]

Hey everyone,

Need a bit of T4R.org expertise. I've had efflorescence in my attic for some time. I thought it was caused by my neighbour's roof leak last year after a huge wind storm (I live in a townhouse). My roof appeared dry through the summer and I thought I was good. I poked my head in the attic in December and I saw signs of dampness on the sheathing/wood above the cinder blocks. I'm not positive the moisture is coming from the roof. Below the efflorescence, the cinder blocks are a little bit warm once you pull back the white insulation and touch with your hand. What I also found is upon sticking my hand down the wall, the wall insulation is very loose.... almost as if some is missing. I felt like it wanted to fall further down the wall.

Do you guys think heat running up the wall could be causing this much moisture and eventually condensing up on the sheathing?

Also, what is the easiest way to clean off the efflorescence? It is a bit damp.... Not watery but definitely not dry. Obviously a hose won't work. I've read about Quikrete efflorescence remover.

The pics below are right beside the ceiling hatch. I also took a pic in the bathroom/walk-in closet showing the hatch in the top right corner. The loose insulation and majority of efflorescence is above those lights. The efflorescence spans about 7-8 cinder blocks and the roof slopes toward the camera.

THANK YOU!

 

[Serenity Now]

Usually efflorescence like that is caused by moisture evaporating out of the block, more so than condensation onto the surface of the block. But I guess if the block got soaked enough by condensation and then evaporated later when conditions changed efflorescence could result. The placement above the bathroom does make it a suspect. Is the block an outside wall?

 

[JayceeP]

Usually efflorescence like that is caused by moisture evaporating out of the block, more so than condensation onto the surface of the block. But I guess if the block got soaked enough by condensation and then evaporated later when conditions changed efflorescence could result. The placement above the bathroom does make it a suspect. Is the block an outside wall?

Thank you for the response. It's not an outside wall- there is a townhouse on the other side. I believe her master bath is also directly opposite the wall. But, when my neighbour had the leak last year, she had no efflorescence, only me. The reason I showed the wall in the bathroom is because when I reach down the wall from the attic, the insulation feels pretty thin and you c an feel the warmth from the interior.... but I was told warm air coming up the wall wouldn't cause that much moisture on the blocks. (Basically what you said). I checked all exhaust fans including the dryer vent and no signs of any leaks there.

To address your point about moisture coming from inside... So I guess that means it's more probable water is coming from the roof and running down the block. Probably something stupid but once the snow melts off the roof I will get someone up there to look.

 

[VA_4R]

How ever the block is capped is breached, or the flashing at the roof line is damaged,
That looks to be black mold, dont wait have the problem fixed now the damage only gets worse.
thats a block fire petition wall common in the late 80's early 90's, and better builders today will use them

This is the way that wall is suppose to be flashed, my guess is it isnt

 

[JayceeP]

[MENTION=134656]VA_4R[/MENTION]

Thanks. The wall does not go outside. The roof runs over it and is level over both units. The building is only 4 years old so I'm hoping it's just a matter of having something on the roof fixed and the concrete cleaned.

I am no expert but I believe it's just dampness/moisture on the concrete and not black mold.

 

[Morphyne]

I am an expert and you have a roof leak. That is moisture in your wall coming out. Considering what you are saying I would guess there is a defect in the roofing installation allowing water to enter that wall. Pretty typical in today's workforce that is primarily comprised of unskilled or underskilled labor performing trade skills.

I would talk to the property manager about it.

PS. you do not need to have that cleaned off. you just need to stop the water.

PSS. Don't get too worried about any mold up there. it won't hurt you. Promise.

PSSS. Hat's off to VA_4R for breaking out the detail sheets. But please don't call it black mold. there is no such thing. there is mold that is black. but there really is no real black mold of death. mold is mold. And I like mine blue and with chicken wings.

 

[JayceeP]

Thanks [MENTION=76583]Morphyne[/MENTION]. Once the snow melts on the roof I'll have a guy up there and hopefully it's an easy fix. I own the house so it's on me.

 

[Morphyne]

If its 4 years old that is BS. Post some pics of the area on the roof that is above the leak.

 

[JayceeP]

I don't own a tall enough ladder. Plus it's snowy & icy up there right now so I can't until we get a thaw. Next several days are very cold but I'm hoping in another week or so!

 

[Morphyne]

if that is a recent pic it might be an ice dam or other similar effect.

 

[Serenity Now]

Don't get too worried about any mold up there. it won't hurt you. Promise.

PSSS. Hat's off to VA_4R for breaking out the detail sheets. But please don't call it black mold. there is no such thing. there is mold that is black. but there really is no real black mold of death. mold is mold. And I like mine blue and with chicken wings.

Lol...I wasn't going to get into it unless the subject came up, but I am an environmental consultant that does IAQ and mold testing etc., and I agree with the above. Many kinds of mold are black. While the so-called toxic molds (usually Stachybotrys) can contain tiny amounts of toxins, you would have to eat it by the bagful to ingest enough for any toxic effect. You are almost always dealing with allergenic effects rather than toxic.

Mold is a symptom of a moisture problem, make the moisture go away and the mold will stop growing. And there is little chance that mold in the attic will impact the living space.

 

[larrylegend]

Lots of good advice above. Moisture entering the block and then evaporating will bring salts to the surface which you see as efflorescence. I would check your roof above the problem area when you are able to. Also, warm moist air entering your attic space is not ideal. Fiberglass insulation against a block wall in combination with the warm moist air is also not ideal. It would seem you have a roof leak to fix and also a ventilation issue with the warm air entering your attic space.

You won't be able to fix your warm air issue by placing more insulation into the gap in the wall. When your warm air rises and hits the cold air in your attic space you will have moisture build up in that insulation.

 

[Morphyne]

Lol...I wasn't going to get into it unless the subject came up, but I am an environmental consultant that does IAQ and mold testing etc., and I agree with the above. Many kinds of mold are black. While the so-called toxic molds (usually Stachybotrys) can contain tiny amounts of toxins, you would have to eat it by the bagful to ingest enough for any toxic effect. You are almost always dealing with allergenic effects rather than toxic.

Mold is a symptom of a moisture problem, make the moisture go away and the mold will stop growing. And there is little chance that mold in the attic will impact the living space.

Aman brother! You said all the right things. Good show. BTW . We belong to the same club.

 

[VA_4R]

I am an expert and you have a roof leak. That is moisture in your wall coming out. Considering what you are saying I would guess there is a defect in the roofing installation allowing water to enter that wall. Pretty typical in today's workforce that is primarily comprised of unskilled or underskilled labor performing trade skills.

I would talk to the property manager about it.

PS. you do not need to have that cleaned off. you just need to stop the water.

PSS. Don't get too worried about any mold up there. it won't hurt you. Promise.

PSSS. Hat's off to VA_4R for breaking out the detail sheets. But please don't call it black mold. there is no such thing. there is mold that is black. but there really is no real black mold of death. mold is mold. And I like mine blue and with chicken wings.

Not an expert in mold, but am an expert in Masonry and building in general.
But I know nothing just been doing it for a living for the last 34 years

 

[Morphyne]

So you are the tradesman often missing fro. Construction sites these days because you want a fair wage for a job well done. Got it. Yeah your job is being outsourced from mexico.

I work for a building engineering company that specializes in many things. Water intrusion is one of them. I am pretty good on the building en elope stuff, but nobody on the east coast beats me when it comes to IAQ and mold.

 

[VA_4R]

So you are the tradesman often missing fro. Construction sites these days because you want a fair wage for a job well done. Got it. Yeah your job is being outsourced from mexico.

I work for a building engineering company that specializes in many things. Water intrusion is one of them. I am pretty good on the building en elope stuff, but nobody on the east coast beats me when it comes to IAQ and mold.

Nah Mexicans cant pass background checks if they are illegals.
If they aren't the prevailing wage laws keep our wages in check
Got it you work for a water damage clean up crew
I don't work on houses, and haven't for 25 years

 

[Morphyne]

Nah Mexicans cant pass background checks if they are illegals.
If they aren't the prevailing wage laws keep our wages in check
Got it you work for a water damage clean up crew
I don't work on houses, and haven't for 25 years

No I work for a building engineering firm that has to deal with poor construction on new and old buildings.

 

[wadle5]

No I work for a building engineering firm that has to deal with poor construction on new and old buildings.

Yay job security! Nothing like paying for the same job twice :trophy:

 

[Morphyne]

Precisely.

 

[JayceeP]

Hey [MENTION=76583]Morphyne[/MENTION] & [MENTION=134656]VA_4R[/MENTION] & [MENTION=54589]larrylegend[/MENTION] etc....

I had a roofer up on the roof this morning and he said the roof is fine. He really wanted to tell me I need a new roof but he just charged me for the service call.

The insulator checked the wall insulation along the wall coming up to the attic last year and said it was fine despite it feeling thin in there... The only other options I can think of is a) the attic hatch is not insulated well enough or b) the over the range microwave exhaust fan on the main floor is leakinto into the wall and running up to the attic. The microwave is located just below the bathroom you see in the picture. I am going to take the microwave down tonight to inspect behind it because I had a "handyman" mount it so you never know.