Engine Blown I was just told.

[EZDog]

I bought a used 08-V8 around XMas time with about 108K AWD Sport
and I drove it extensively and had it run through a dealers shop first too,not a Toyota dealer.

It seemed fine and above average all around.

I drive it some nights it is not a primary car for me or daily driver.

The other day I drove it and after a few miles it died and would not start,battery was near dead and I had it towed to a dealer just down the street from where I was stranded.

They just told me there is a bent valve/s and it needs a motor!

WTF???

They say that somehow the timing slipped and it looks like it does have a recently changed belt on it,I had no info about this at all from the purchase and I am skeptical of any help from where I bought it at all for various reasons.

There is "Debris" under the belt and ot seems not seated properly where it goes is the best I could make from what I was told but I am somewhat shell shocked right now for sure so.......

I realize there are many questions surrounding all of this and sadly I have few answers but would love to hear comments regardless.

The dealer is actually a client of mine too but I am so dubious of this news that I am thinking of towing it to a different shop and seeing what they say and offer.

I have just not heard stories about this motor doing this and I have a Tundra with the same motor with mpre miles that runs great and know many others in a similar boat but never really anything like this.

So PLEASE tell me your thoughts I am desperate and reaching for any ideas at this point?

Thanks

 

[Atlanta_man]

Certainly an odd failure mode, I've not see such a thing referenced on this forum ever.
If bent valves, it had to occur while you were cranking. I doubt the engine is blown.

May need some work on the heads, maybe just new valves ? Only an inspection of the top end will show how bad it is.

 

[Brian3676]

If the belt is broken they likley are not lying....swing by and ask to see it. A belt braking if not installed correctly or old is not that uncommon.

 

[Inv4drZm]

With 108k miles it likely just had it's timing belt replaced as common maintenance procedure. Check out the maintenance history online on Toyota's website using your VIN or look at what the sticker says near the belts in the engine bay.

Could have been done incorrectly.

 

[ChaosStarter]

If what they said is true, it probably did bend valves. These VVT-i motors are unforgiving when it comes to proper timing. Your tundra motor may have been the non VVT-i version and you may have gotten lucky of the belt broke on that.

If you're lucky, and it was at a low enough RPM, you may just have to pull the heads, replace the belt valves and check for cracks. Maybe you just nicked the piston top and you may be ok. If not, it'll may need a full rebuild of the damaged components.

 

[another-bill]

With 108k miles it likely just had it's timing belt replaced as common maintenance procedure. Check out the maintenance history online on Toyota's website using your VIN or look at what the sticker says near the belts in the engine bay.

Could have been done incorrectly.

do you have the url for the Toyota site where to see what maintenance was done using the VIN?

 

[bombventure]

do you have the url for the Toyota site where to see what maintenance was done using the VIN?

https://www.toyota.com/owners/my-vehicle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElZilcho]

If what they said is true, it probably did bend valves. These VVT-i motors are unforgiving when it comes to proper timing. Your tundra motor may have been the non VVT-i version and you may have gotten lucky of the belt broke on that.

If you're lucky, and it was at a low enough RPM, you may just have to pull the heads, replace the belt valves and check for cracks. Maybe you just nicked the piston top and you may be ok. If not, it'll may need a full rebuild of the damaged components.

Agreed. A blown timing belt is not necessarily a blown motor. I would ask how they diagnosed the bent valve. If they used a bore scope ask to see a picture. If you can see damage and scoring in the cylinder it's probably new motor time. A full rebuild is about as expensive as a replacement. If they can't/won't/don't have pictures they're making assumptions as to the extent of the damage and it warrants a second opinion.

It's possible (but rare) for an interference motor to survive a timing belt failure. Check maintenance logs with Toyota if a dealer botched a timing belt job you may have some recourse. Regardless, don't trust a diagnosis from anyone that won't show you the damage. If it's just a few bent valves you might get away with a top-end rebuild which is about half the price of a replacement.

 

[EZDog]

OK I got more detailed info from the dealer I think.

I have no history for this truck really and neither does Toyota aside from a few oil changes and code pulling a few years ago. There is no sticker indicating a Timing Belt Service that I can find.

The Belt is not broken but there is some crap under and around it and they say they think it is from an old belt that broke and was not cleaned off correctly before putting a new one on?
The Engine has slipped timing though and they claim there are 2 bent valves but I have not seen anything at all myself.
they suggest that the previous owner knew this was a "Ticking Bomb" when making a shabby repair with the plan to pass it on to someone else,me of course.
This thing ran great and I have a hard time accepting this at all?

They say if there was not a broken belt then the belt in there was coming apart somehow and that is the crap around the pulley or,and this is my favorite theory they offer that when detailing it they forced crap into the timing belt area somehow with high pressure cleaning!?

Lets just say I don't believe anything they say at this point and I will be towing the truck somewhere else on Monday I am sure.

What a load of crap!

As I have read here and elsewhere there is a chance that the motor is OK and that a timing belt service may be all it takes to get running again or that the top end of the motor might be worked on the repair valve damage if there even is any.

What kills me about all of this is that this dealer is one of my clients and I thought I would not be screwed around but not too much that I am hearing there makes sense to me at all.

I have another client with a shop that has always done right by me with my Sprinter which few dealers seem capable of working with and I finally spoke to him while on vacation and he said just get it to his shop and let them take a look before anything else,this is what I plan to do.

 

[Inv4drZm]

OK I got more detailed info from the dealer I think.

I have no history for this truck really and neither does Toyota aside from a few oil changes and code pulling a few years ago. There is no sticker indicating a Timing Belt Service that I can find.

The Belt is not broken but there is some crap under and around it and they say they think it is from an old belt that broke and was not cleaned off correctly before putting a new one on?
The Engine has slipped timing though and they claim there are 2 bent valves but I have not seen anything at all myself.
they suggest that the previous owner knew this was a "Ticking Bomb" when making a shabby repair with the plan to pass it on to someone else,me of course.
This thing ran great and I have a hard time accepting this at all?

They say if there was not a broken belt then the belt in there was coming apart somehow and that is the crap around the pulley or,and this is my favorite theory they offer that when detailing it they forced crap into the timing belt area somehow with high pressure cleaning!?

Lets just say I don't believe anything they say at this point and I will be towing the truck somewhere else on Monday I am sure.

What a load of crap!

As I have read here and elsewhere there is a chance that the motor is OK and that a timing belt service may be all it takes to get running again or that the top end of the motor might be worked on the repair valve damage if there even is any.

What kills me about all of this is that this dealer is one of my clients and I thought I would not be screwed around but not too much that I am hearing there makes sense to me at all.

I have another client with a shop that has always done right by me with my Sprinter which few dealers seem capable of working with and I finally spoke to him while on vacation and he said just get it to his shop and let them take a look before anything else,this is what I plan to do.

The timing belts should be done at 90k miles as recommended by Toyota.

If the dealer didn't change the timing belt when they had it, and it hadn't been changed before, they seriously f'd up.

If they did change it when they had possession, and now it broke shortly after, they also seriously f'd up.

In either case you should have a good argument for financially walking away.

But it is also something you should have checked with before you bought it.

 

[EZDog]

The timing belts should be done at 90k miles as recommended by Toyota.

If the dealer didn't change the timing belt when they had it, and it hadn't been changed before, they seriously f'd up.

If they did change it when they had possession, and now it broke shortly after, they also seriously f'd up.

In either case you should have a good argument for financially walking away.

But it is also something you should have checked with before you bought it.

This dealer has never seen this truck.
They had nothing to do with it until I towed it there on Tuesday as they were down the street from where it died and I have history there already too.

The only info in the Toyota system about the truck is something from a different dealer from years ago and I don't think related to this at all.
I certainly tried to determine anything I could about the truck before buying but as a used car there is often not much info to see.

Only dealers seem to report the work they do and there was nothing much posted for this one.
It also drove and ran so well that I was hopeful that it had not been abused but also had no real way to determine further issues before buying the truck.
I was encouraged somewhat to not find more records as these trucks seem able to often get to 100k with little issue or reason to have dealer work ever performed.

I had also been told years before by a lead mechanic at a dealer that I knew that the Timing Belt Service on the 4.7 was an easy profit center for the dealer and that in 25 years at Toyota he had never yet seem one break and that he wouldn't be too concerned about it as related to my Tundra with this motor which is still running fine at about 160k without the belt service,stupid maybe I know.

Sadly none of this really matters right now anyway I am not trying to find anyone to blame or pay for this, I am trying to figure out where to go with it next and the dealer I towed it too is not making it any easier to decide on my options it seems despite our history together which I am surprised has not produced a more personal treatment.

The things I have relayed that they told me now make little sense to me and that is why I am repeating them here hoping some of you guys more experienced with this stuff can advise me from what I have been told.

It seems like a pretty big leap for me to be advised that it needs a new motor after a few hours of poking around and coming up with theories but without me seeing any tangible evidence or choices aside from a motor swap,doesn't it to you too?

So yeah,mistakes may have been made but what to do now is my real problem.

 

[Bluesky 07]

Wish I had something to add here but I feel for you and hope it works out for the best. Trying to think what I would do...maybe ask around and research to find an independent mechanic with high marks for trustworthiness and within a reasonable distance, then have it towed there for diagnosis. You need reliable info before you can decide the best path forward.

 

[EZDog]

Wish I had something to add here but I feel for you and hope it works out for the best. Trying to think what I would do...maybe ask around and research to find an independent mechanic with high marks for trustworthiness and within a reasonable distance, then have it towed there for diagnosis. You need reliable info before you can decide the best path forward.

Thanks

Thats what I will be doing Monday .
Like I said I have a trusted independent shop that is pretty great, many Mercedes dealers send problem cars to him too.
So I had hoped for more from the Dealer that I took it to first but I have some hope that there might be options based on a diagnosis that I feel I can trust so it would be crazy to do anything else before letting him see what he thinks first.

Believe me it would be hard to feel any worse about this than I do know anyway but I need to do something to start and a trusted 2nd opinion is just that.

Also everyone else I talk to about the truck has also said they would love to buy it and make it their own,a little tough to trust that sentiment too?

 

[T4R2014]

Even if it wasn't changed, 108k is still low for a belt to snap.

 

[ChaosStarter]

Even if it wasn't changed, 108k is still low for a belt to snap.

In the nearly 10 years I was with Toyota, I only saw one. That was because the water pump had been leaking and we informed the customer for her last 2 oil changes that it was leaking. Guess what. She didn't care. The belt snapped. Just about 110k on it.

 

[Murdoch]

The timing belts should be done at 90k miles as recommended by Toyota.

If the dealer didn't change the timing belt when they had it, and it hadn't been changed before, they seriously f'd up.

If they did change it when they had possession, and now it broke shortly after, they also seriously f'd up.

In either case you should have a good argument for financially walking away.

But it is also something you should have checked with before you bought it.

Agree

 

[Gatafly]

​

Even if it wasn't changed, 108k is still low for a belt to snap.

Agreed. I changed mine a few months ago and with 100k on it it still looked like new. A broken belt is extremely rare and usually only found to happen when there is excessive miles on them.

 

[EZDog]

It seems the bad or leaking Water Pump is the only reason I have heard so far for a Timing Belt to break.

Any other possibilities?

 

[SunPilot]

A couple of things... you never said the belt was broken, only possibly slipped. Also, you said the battery was near dead. I'm wondering what the dead battery has to do with the belt problem (the alternator runs off the serpentine belt, which is different from the timing belt).

Usually an interference engine, such as this one, will indeed bend some valve stems if the belt jumps a good deal. As someone else asked earlier, how did they determine this? Did they pull the belt covers ( quite a bit of work) to actually inspect the belt and timing, did they do a compression test, did they use a borescope? These questions should be answered for you.

As mentioned before, sometimes just head work will take care of the damage and I would be surprised if just a new belt fixed the problem. I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but if the valves are fine, changing the belt isn't that hard of a job if you have the time. I did mine a few months ago and did the water pump and pulleys also (recommended if you have it apart anyway).

You definitely need another solid opinion. Good luck and please let us know how things turn out.

 

[EZDog]

The belt is not broken but they said it seems to have slipped and has some kind of debris in/under and around it,whatever this means?

The Serpentine belt looks fine and I just thought at first that maybe the alternator had died as the battery was so dead right after the motor stopped that it would barely turn over at all,since then they told me the battery is indeed dead after I made them check it and the alternator just to start off the diagnosis.

They looked in the plug holes on both sides with a scope and said 2 valves appear to be bent and the timing belt cover is off so they could see if it was broken or not and how bad it might look. They have not even mentioned the Water Pump but did say the initial tech thought he heard Air from inside the radiator when first trying to start it after being towed there?

They said they have about 4 hours into the work so far which seems about what I have read here too?
Evidently the drivers side is pretty easy to access to scope but the passenger side is not.

I will not be doing the work.
I do have a trusted independent shop like I have said and it will be going there next for sure.

I have not spoken to the dealership owner yet as he is on vacation but I do lots of work for the store,his house and his whole family and the other 12 stores they have and I will at least tell him about this whole ordeal with just trying to get a decent service experience there before towing it away though at thispoint I am pretty sure there is nothing he can say that can give me a good feeling about them working on this any further.

A couple of things... you never said the belt was broken, only possibly slipped. Also, you said the battery was near dead. I'm wondering what the dead battery has to do with the belt problem (the alternator runs off the serpentine belt, which is different from the timing belt).

Usually an interference engine, such as this one, will indeed bend some valve stems if the belt jumps a good deal. As someone else asked earlier, how did they determine this? Did they pull the belt covers ( quite a bit of work) to actually inspect the belt and timing, did they do a compression test, did they use a borescope? These questions should be answered for you.

As mentioned before, sometimes just head work will take care of the damage and I would be surprised if just a new belt fixed the problem. I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but if the valves are fine, changing the belt isn't that hard of a job if you have the time. I did mine a few months ago and did the water pump and pulleys also (recommended if you have it apart anyway).

You definitely need another solid opinion. Good luck and please let us know how things turn out.