Excessive Draw or Short while running

[Mantilgh]

Hi, new to the forum here!

I have an 05 4Runner Limited V6 that I have been having some electrical issues with that started a few weeks ago I believe.

I first noticed the problem going over the mountains on rt70 one night. Getting close to the top it seemed I didn't have headlights then shorty after things started to flicker.

I pulled into rest area at the top and checked the terminals an looked a little,found nothing then continued on without any problems. Coming back through after the same thing happened towards the top of both the mountains(not really real mountains, but Maryland mountains).

A day or so later the car won't start after be driven on and off all day leaving the wife and kids stranded on the other side of town.

I come jump it, pull the ground and it dies. Ok, alts dead. Pick up a reman and come back in the morning and put it in. Back of the old alt was pretty melted.

Good to go for a few days, then it starts doing the flickering again and then the engine is cutting in a out. Wife limps it home. I look at the back of the alternator and it's melted.

Ok, now I think I've either have a bad alternator or I killed it trying to charge my now week battery.

So I charge a good battery from my other lighly used car in hopes of going to Battery Warehouse to have them check the other battery, buy a new one if needed, and then go to parts store to swap alts in the parking lot.

Well, the battery store had closed early because of the weather so I drove probably 20 some miles to the parts store without a fully charged battery to put in after. I swapped the alt and headed back home. Most likely starting off with pretty drained battery.

No problems getting home, but I can smell this one melting also.

Charge up and get my old battery tested, and get a new one. Wife exchanges the last alternator while she's in town.

Now at this point I've got a good new battery, fresh reman alternator, and I've got a multimeter connected to the battery with some jump leads I made so I can watch it while in the vehicle.

It seems to me I have an excessive current demand that my alternator cannot keep up with and is dying trying. Or a short I assume.

There seems to be minimal parasitic draw with the key off, like 0.02V once the computer settles down.

I'm sure this alt is failing also, and has been since right after the install.

12.6V resting, on start up it jumps up to 14.3, stays close to that for 30 seconds or less, then drops at a rate of around 0.01V per 2-3 seconds until reaches 13.6 and just hangs out around there. Reving to 1500-2000 rpm does little to nothing.

I noticed while driving with the meter if I accelerate hard, around 2000 rpm (not quite positive, may be closer to 2500-3000 rmp) the volts drop to the mid 12V range.

More to add, just getting a bit long. Sorry!

 

[Mantilgh]

Feel free to ask any questions you have and I am willing to do any test/check that I am capable of doing.

Also the main wiring and connections look really good but have cleaned them up a little as I check them just to be sure.

No mods of any kind that I know of. No different lights, radio, speakers, amp, ect. Stock trailer harness.

Only and original owners are my in-laws.

 

[Mantilgh]

I'll also add that maybe a month or so ago I left a light on and had to jump. I accidentally crossed cables. I didn't leave them on, just sparked then switched.

No fuses blown, but I did have issue with the throttle system. It would not rev up other than 200 rpm or so over iddle. I pulled the negative in hopes of resetting the computer and that solved the problem. My thinking was that maybe it recalibrates itself after memory is gone and I started it to quickly after the jump.

I would think that if this was part of the problem that it would have shown up sooner, but adding it just in case.

 

[Mantilgh]

Any thoughts out there?

I would think eventually the parts store is going to cut me off on the exchanges.

 

[AuSeeker]

Any thoughts out there?

I would think eventually the parts store is going to cut me off on the exchanges.

The parts store would be well within their rights for not honoring the warranty since it's very obivious from what you're telling us that it's not the alternators that is the issue here, if I were working at the parts store I would known instantly from inspecting the part that the condition of the returning part was not caused by it and cause by a defect in your vehicle, I guess you're lucky that many people working at these stores really don't know too much about how vehicles work, this story is why most part stores now have a policy that electrical parts are non-returnable, once you pay for the part it's non-returnable becasue they never know if it was installed and damaged and or what actually cause the damage because too many people returning a part that failed due to other issues and having nothing to do with the new part, sorry for the tough-love here but it's what I think!!

I'm convinced that your issue has to do with you using the jumper cables incorrectly the electronics in modern vehilces don't take kindly to reverse electricity, I don't know what it could have done, but I would suggest taking it a good garage or even the dealer and tell them what you did and hopefully they have the proper diagnostic equipment to track down the issue!!

 

[wcjeep]

Is there excessive amp draw when off? Have you tried using an ammeter when running (clamp)? 20amp for engine running, 20 amp for hvac, 20 amp for headlight/running lights, average. While you can use an infrared heat gun , I prefer a Flir. Excessive amp draw will create heat.

If you can test for high amperage draw, start pulling fuses.

Alternators are not normally rated to charge a low battery. Alternators usually have a duty cycle. I have a welding alternator on my off-road jeep. It's duty cycle is 100%.


With vehicle off, all lights off , the amp draw should be well under 1amp. Typically under .5amp. This is stereo and computer draw.

Try not to throw parts at the problem.

 

[TowMeOut]

Any other accessories (dome light, tailgate, etc.) that stopped working as a result of the failed jumpstart? That might help narrow down what system is causing problems. No dash MIL or other warning lamps I assume.

As always....check/clean all the ground leads. A loose or corroded ground can and will cause all kinds of electrical shenanigans. Clean the metal with a wire brush and apply a liberal glob of diaelectric grease.

Are your battery cables/clamps OEM or at least good quality aftermarket? My used Honda starting having some similar symptoms to what you mention and I found the previous owner had installed one of those "emergency" clamp on type battery connections. They'd done a great job of twisting the main line to the alternator and fuse panel together but the corrosion built up under a wad of electrical tape to the point the battery was charging poorly and eventually was hard starting. Corrosion is the enemy.

 

[Mantilgh]

Yes AuSeeker, I'm lucky they keep taking it back, and would like to solve my issue before my luck runs out.

I am skeptical about the cross jumping. With a fairly drained battery that day and how quickly it is eating up alternators now, I would think it would have shown up much sooner.

I have no desire to take the vehicle to stealership unless absolutely necessary. I'm "financially challenged" at the moment.


Wcjeep, the amps are low.

0.5 amps upon hookup with the computer being woke up, then settles down to 0.02 after 5-10 seconds.

I do not have an amp clamp.

Is it necessary, or can I get by with just a digital multimeter?

I will try to test the amps with the key on again here shortly and record my results.

Definitely trying not to just throw parts at it, too broke for that.


TowMeOut,

No other issues, no fuses blown that I can tell.

Dash lights are sometimes on, sometimes off. Check engine light is on sometimes. Haven't have codes checked. Tract/Abs/bla bla on and off. All have been like that for a very long time along with the check engine light.

OEM clamps, wires look good, cleaning connections as I go, and putting dielectric grease on them. Worst looking one was the starter, and it wasn't bad. Not really corrosion, just a little dirtier than the rest due to location I assume.

 

[Mantilgh]

Amp test with it running was odd. Maybe I need an amp clamp?

I clamped one test lead to the negative battery terminal, the other lead to the negative cable, then used another clamp to keep the ground terminal to the negative while I started it and then separated the cable again.

When separated the amps were around 5.3, then it slowly drop down into the 2s.

If I turned the lights on, the amps would drop .3, a similar drop would happen if I increased the rpm

I'm not sure if any of this is due to the alternator's current state.

 

[wcjeep]

Some auto parts stores have tools you can rent. To test DC amperage while running you need a clamp. Most multimeter top out at 10amp. The starter can draw a few hundred amps. The vehicle running can easily draw 20amp. Still unknown if the crossed voltage is guilty. This could be a computer problem? Shorted starter through the plunger assembly? Short to ground wire harness? Partially shorted fusible link?


Alternators are not designed to output 100% all the time. The 100% duty cycle is probably killing the alternators.


You might get lucky by completely disconnecting the battery. Then meter the ohm resistance from positive to ground. However, I don't know what is a good reading. Light bulbs are designed with easy path to ground.

 

[wcjeep]

Example of DC enabled amperage clamp.



https://www.amazon.com/Meterk-Auto-...2579&s=gateway&sprefix=Ammeter,aps,231&sr=8-9

 

[Mantilgh]

Thanks, one test I haven't tried yet is resistance on the wires. Just because they look nice doesn't mean they can't be fried somewhere.

Looking into the amp clamps. Probably a little cheaper than the thermal imaging thing mentioned earlier and maybe the parts store has one for loan.

I had thought about the starter being related to this somehow and I thought I read where someone was having it cause a drain. I could be wrong, I've read so many different electrical problem threads. It might have been a key off parasitic draw thing.?

I had thought I had an electrical sound coming from the starter with the key on, not running, but it ended up being a sound coming from inside the transmission. I pulled a electrical connector that stopped the hum/buzz sound, but it did not affect the drain.

 

[Mantilgh]

Got an amp clamp and did some testing.

Not sure if I found anything relevant yet, thinking I’m going to have to test on the road.

Just did most of the under hood fuses so far.

Tested with vehicle off then running, then some engaged while running. Reved past 3k rpm with some but it seemed to have little to no effect

Basically my test flow starts at bottom and goes up to the top pic. This was my log.

Most interesting is the top one just below.
Starter on, this with it just running, not pull on startup. This is the negative that runs to the block next to the starter I believe. Could just be the path for returning current from other engine grounded bits.?

 

[Mantilgh]

Just did a test drive with the clamp around the negative cable. One test with it on the engine ground from the battery, then one with it on the body ground.

Basically it’s happening around or above 3000 rpm.

Top 3 are together (body ground). Bottom 3 are engine ground. Both have one low rpm result, then recorded two high rpm results.

Odd how bottom results (engine ground) flips direction by 20+ amps.

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[Mantilgh]

Just for anyone who runs into this thread and decides they need an amp clamp meter. I found one at my local Sears via online searching.

I ended up getting the top model which is conveniently Bluetooth accessible and has a free app.

This way you can view the results on your phone while in the drivers seat and can also log data through a screen shot type function and you can also make video of the readout

The most important part for me is that this measures DC amps through the clamp. Most of the clamp meters that I was finding (like the ones at the home improvement stores) are only capable of measuring AC amps.

They also have a regular multi meter with Bluetooth.

Link to Craftsman ProSeries 1000A AC/DC True RMS Clamp Meter

Sears.com




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[ZiaMan]

Dash lights are sometimes on, sometimes off. Check engine light is on sometimes. Haven't have codes checked. Tract/Abs/bla bla on and off. All have been like that for a very long time along with the check engine light.

You need to get the codes checked out. Regardless of the amp clamp results, you can't keep throwing alternators and batteries at this or you will eventually burn you vehicle to the ground. Have dashlights been flickering and codes been since you jumped it or was it pre-existing?

The other thing I would think is are you sure your reman alternator is good? They can be seriously hit or miss from a parts store and non uncommon to go through a few before getting a good one. Starts getting really expensive if you start melting OEMs at ~$160 a piece but

Would suggest upping your diagnostic game up with some software like:
OBD2 software for car diagnostic | OBD Auto Doctor

Last option will be a garage or dealer as you might be chasing a ghost or two.

 

[Mantilgh]

ZiaMan,

Yes I should get the codes checked, and wil try to here soon.

The engine and other lights were pre-exsisting. We might have had the vehicle for two years, but have know it for many more and they have always been on intermittently. More on than off.

The reman alt good? Not really at the moment and possibly not from the start, or was being fried from the start like the others seemed to. Melted in the back just like the past two remans and the OEM one.

It is still kicking though. Right after start up I’m a little above 14V, driving it around 13.6V, above 3000 rpm 12.6V or worse.

 

[Mantilgh]

Didn’t get the actual fault code # but AA guy read it to me.

Bank 2 system 2 lean

Said same code was in there twice

I do have multiple exhaust leaks including a cracked manifold on the drivers side. Picked up gaskets yesterday and at some point soon I’m going to pull the manifold and have my neighbor weld it if he can. Yes, I know I may only get a year out of it if I’m lucky.
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[Mantilgh]

Also tested the two different positive cables on the way to AA for the heck of it.

Positive cable to fuse box and positive to starter

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[Mantilgh]

Any ideas of what would cause this 20 amp flip? Still dealing with this


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