Feedback request from T4Rs Lifting rear tire (only) with Hi Lift on sliders

[axisbogner]

So lifting the front tires with the Hi Lift and sliders is pretty straight forward. I've read many of the warnings and watched the videos. What I haven't seemed to find is information from people lifting JUST the rear wheel. I'd like to hear from those who successfully change their rear tire with the Hi Lift. I'm not interested in lifting both the front and rear wheels, not interested in lifting from the hitch. The rear has so much more flex that the Hi Lift height has to be much higher. It doesn't feel particularly safe that high. I have the option to continue using my bottle/stand jack or alternatively block after lifting the rear wheel with the jackmate. I'm looking to have the flexibility of multiple lift methods on the front AND rear, but at the moment I only feel comfortable lifting the rear with the bottle/stand on the trail. (one of these:
http://a.co/f7hGnkq )

Thanks for your help.

 

[MountainClimber78]

So lifting the front tires with the Hi Lift and sliders is pretty straight forward. I've read many of the warnings and watched the videos. What I haven't seemed to find is information from people lifting JUST the rear wheel. I'd like to hear from those who successfully change their rear tire with the Hi Lift. I'm not interested in lifting both the front and rear wheels, not interested in lifting from the hitch. The rear has so much more flex that the Hi Lift height has to be much higher. It doesn't feel particularly safe that high. I have the option to continue using my bottle/stand jack or alternatively block after lifting the rear wheel with the jackmate. I'm looking to have the flexibility of multiple lift methods on the front AND rear, but at the moment I only feel comfortable lifting the rear with the bottle/stand on the trail. (one of these:
http://a.co/f7hGnkq )

Thanks for your help.

Not to difficult, just tie the axel to the frame with webbing it a strap before you jack the truck up.

 

[e60ral]

if you're able to use the bottle jack, why not just do that?


the easiest way with a high lift is what ^ said, use a strap to tie the axle up so it doesn't droop

 

[wfo9]

Hi lifts are a tool of last resort. I would always use something more stable (like what you posted if possible).

Even when you strap the axle up to the frame cross member... The overall stability is not as good.

I've used the slider to change a rear tire in a very off camber situation once because it was the only option. and boy was it scary. Used a winch and snatch block from another vehicle to stabilize things.

There is no magic solution but a rock slider adapter for the hi lift does help a little with stability.

 

[axisbogner]

if you're able to use the bottle jack, why not just do that?


the easiest way with a high lift is what ^ said, use a strap to tie the axle up so it doesn't droop

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not familiar with strapping like you suggest. I'll take a look. The reason I want two lift methods is flexibility for real world trail conditions. The first example that comes to mind is if terrain under the rear axle doesn't provide enough room to fit the bottle jack. Then I will have no choice but to use the Hi Lift. If there's very little room under the axle, it could be hard to strap the frame.

How safe would it be to lift both front and rear if strapping and bottle were not practical given the situation? I'm trying to figure out this "what if" now rather than under stress out on the trail.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

 

[axisbogner]

Hi lifts are a tool of last resort. I would always use something more stable (like what you posted if possible).

Even when you strap the axle up to the frame cross member... The overall stability is not as good.

I've used the slider to change a rear tire in a very off camber situation once because it was the only option. and boy was it scary. Used a winch and snatch block from another vehicle to stabilize things.

There is no magic solution but a rock slider adapter for the hi lift does help a little with stability.

Yeah it's exactly the situation you encountered that I'm concerned about. Trail conditions force use of the Hi Lift. I do have a slider adapter and have a big Relentless Fab base on order to *try* to improve stability. But I'll only get so far with that. Message heard loud and clear that it's a tool of last resort.

Could you consider using a lift mate to lift just the tire in your situation?

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

 

[phillyd2]

No need to over complicate things. Get yourself a good base (I use Bogert) and a slider adaptor (don’t remember my brand but similar to Amazon link)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZJ3ztV_pXM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdfKrBAMMAI

https://www.amazon.com/Lotus-Development-Slider-Adapter-Locking/dp/B00F4HX9FW

I've done 6 or 7 rear tire change. This happens to be Billy's truck using my set up. Of course loosen all lugs before jacking but otherwise pretty straight forward as long as you know how to use the beast and keep your pretty face away from the lever.

I also keep one of these in the truck.

https://www.amazon.com/Hi-Lift-LM10...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=K0R14CE1CKVBFP0XRZSC

 

[wfo9]

Yeah it's exactly the situation you encountered that I'm concerned about. Trail conditions force use of the Hi Lift. I do have a slider adapter and have a big Relentless Fab base on order to *try* to improve stability. But I'll only get so far with that. Message heard loud and clear that it's a tool of last resort.

Could you consider using a lift mate to lift just the tire in your situation?

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

The lift mate does not really work to change a tire. It works to get something under the tire or axle though and can be used to reset the bead if it came off.

In all honesty, that situation I was in was unusual due to a worn out crappy tire that was aired down too much. Once it lost the bead... it ripped the sidewall. If you keep your air pressure right and use a good offroad tire (the durability has gotten to the point where I don't even worry). You probably won't ever have a problem that can't be fixed with a plug to at least get you to stable ground. Spares are still necessary, but the frequency of use has gone way down from my experience. I have not had a tire failure in years now. Even in brutal conditions. I have hurt tires, but they are always good enough to drive off the trail on. But I only run MTR radials and bias plys.... If you are on a P tire.. all bets are off. Point is, best safety/recovery equipment possible is a good tire. Running P tires on trails.. is just inconsiderate to everyone else trying to use the trails IMHO. Stay on very moderate stuff if you run a street tire.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

One thing to be careful of using a hi lift on sliders is that the jack can slide on the slider if it is not perfectly straight and the 4runner will fall down. On a Jeep I had in the past I drilled and tapped some holes in the bottom of the slider so I could screw a bolt in the bottom to keep the jack from sliding. Also strapping the axle is a must so you do not have to jack it excessively high. I have been in several very scary off camber situations changing a tire before making these changes. The op is smart to get a feel for what is needed at home before having an emergency in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Jetboy]

I would avoid changing a tire with the high lift unless it's really necessary. The bottle jack should work in 99% of situations. High lifts are inherently very unstable. They're great for getting off of stuff and many other tasks. Tire changing just isn't one of their strong points.

If you're really worried about the bottle jack not being tall enough - you could make a race style jack out of a floor jack. Just take the casters off and put a flat plate of aluminum on the bottom. If you have a way to bend it - put a nice curve on both ends so it slides better.

If you do have to lift two tires off the ground - it's not the end of the world. Before you get near/under a car on any jack - whether in your garage or out on the trail - try to manually rock or tip it off the jack first. Push it and see if you can. If you can - it's not safe to get underneath. Also - use your spare tire as a safety device. Put it under the truck while you work on taking the flat tire off. Then put the flat under while you put the spare on. That will at least give you some protection if it falls off. Maybe you'll get hurt and not killed.

In my experience it's pretty rare to get a flat where you must change it as it sits. Usually you can get yourself to somewhere halfway decent to do the tire work. My one exception to this is in deep snow. That's where you'll run the lowest pressure and lose bead seals more often if you don't have beadlocks. In that case usually a high lift and a shovel are involved to clear enough snow to change the tire. But you're usually high centered so getting the spare out is a PITA, but the vehicle is probably pretty stable.

Good luck!

 

[axisbogner]

Philyd2: Thanks for the feedback. I've seen the Bogert base, but opted for the Relentless Fab. Perhaps the Bogert is more stable, it's just way too. pricey for what it is. Perhaps when I get the new base, I'll feel more comfortable with the rear tire lift.

Jetboy: Understood, I will likely be reaching for my bottle/stand first before anything else. Perhaps I can get myself somewhere decent, but so far I've been on plenty of narrow, steep mountain trails that a flat tire would have been really challenging. I'm not sure I'll be out in the snow any time soon here in Cali - maybe. Of course, plugging my tire will be the first thing I reach for... if it works. Thanks for the safety tips with the spare tire.

03_4x4Runner: I encountered the slip problem too. My solution was to find non-slip furniture pads which seems to work great for me ( http://a.co/8tYvolO ). I just cut to fit and stuck inside the adapter. For sure your solution is way more secure, but I'm unwilling to drill into the slider right now. I don't want water and salt getting inside for potential rust. Thanks for the tip though.

wfo9: I was thinking to use the lift-mate to get something else like the stand underneath then change the tire.

To all: Thanks for all the feedback. I have BFG K02 285/70R17's. Many of you have been mentioning proper tire pressure. I have gone as low as 18 with my tires. What is the lowest you'd recommend to minimize the chance of a blown bead?

Also, the reason I need redundancy is I'm planning a 2 week solo trip to the boonies. I've replaced my spare for the BFG above too. I realize that tires are way better now, but I still see a blown tire to be my most likely trail problem. I'll be bringing along many other recovery tools, along with a satellite pager as my recovery of last resort.

 

[Jetboy]

I would add a spare valve stem, inner tube, and a punch plus some good quality zip ties if you're really worried. You can sew up a sidewall and use a tube to get you back to pavement in a pinch. Its really unlikely to get two flats in most terrain though unless you're new to driving. In all of my offroad trips in my 4runner I've seen 1 tire punctured. Considering that for example there were over 100 vehicles at Rubithon with zero flat tires. Over 100 each year at cruise moab - also zero flat tires that I saw or heard of anyone having. Lots of miles of informal offroading with 1 flat. I've seen more valve stems ripped out. Actually I've also seen more broken drive shafts, non-working ARB lockers, and broken alternators than flat tires too.

The best thing you could do to keep your reliability up would be to get rid of everything you've bolted on or put inside that you don't need. Weight kills - tires, axles, driveline, performance, you name it. Run as light weight as possible and you'll reduce your risk of damage to just about everything.

I do carry a spare front axle. A few lengths of wire in a few sizes. Variety of fuses. Mostly just go after the stuff that breaks often. Sometimes something as simple as making sure you have a spare key can be pretty important too.

As far as tire pressure - it depends what you're doing. In deep snow, I'd run down to maybe 10psi. In rocks I'd say 15 is the lowest I'd go. For going fast I wouldn't go below 20.

 

[Okki]

So lifting the front tires with the Hi Lift and sliders is pretty straight forward. I've read many of the warnings and watched the videos. What I haven't seemed to find is information from people lifting JUST the rear wheel. I'd like to hear from those who successfully change their rear tire with the Hi Lift. I'm not interested in lifting both the front and rear wheels, not interested in lifting from the hitch. The rear has so much more flex that the Hi Lift height has to be much higher. It doesn't feel particularly safe that high. I have the option to continue using my bottle/stand jack or alternatively block after lifting the rear wheel with the jackmate. I'm looking to have the flexibility of multiple lift methods on the front AND rear, but at the moment I only feel comfortable lifting the rear with the bottle/stand on the trail. (one of these:
http://a.co/f7hGnkq )

Thanks for your help.

You shouldn't be working on/under the truck while on a hi-lift unless no other options are available. Jack it up with the hi-lift and lower it onto an appropriate jack-stand. I use 12 ton jack stands because of the 2.5inch lift. Make sure you choke-block the wheel on the other end of the vehicle (ie if raising the rear, choke the front and visa versa)

You can pick up some 12 ton jack stands at harbor freight for $100.

On the trail you can tie the axle to the frame with a strong enough strap, or strap the rear coil. In both cases you add risk with a tensioned strap that might break and release the axle while you are working on it.

You can also use a scissor-jack or bottle jack under the axle. But that's also questionable in terms of staying secure under the axle.

Okki

 

[axisbogner]

I would add a spare valve stem, inner tube, and a punch plus some good quality zip ties if you're really worried. You can sew up a sidewall and use a tube to get you back to pavement in a pinch. Its really unlikely to get two flats in most terrain though unless you're new to driving. In all of my offroad trips in my 4runner I've seen 1 tire punctured. Considering that for example there were over 100 vehicles at Rubithon with zero flat tires. Over 100 each year at cruise moab - also zero flat tires that I saw or heard of anyone having. Lots of miles of informal offroading with 1 flat. I've seen more valve stems ripped out. Actually I've also seen more broken drive shafts, non-working ARB lockers, and broken alternators than flat tires too.

The best thing you could do to keep your reliability up would be to get rid of everything you've bolted on or put inside that you don't need. Weight kills - tires, axles, driveline, performance, you name it. Run as light weight as possible and you'll reduce your risk of damage to just about everything.

I do carry a spare front axle. A few lengths of wire in a few sizes. Variety of fuses. Mostly just go after the stuff that breaks often. Sometimes something as simple as making sure you have a spare key can be pretty important too.

As far as tire pressure - it depends what you're doing. In deep snow, I'd run down to maybe 10psi. In rocks I'd say 15 is the lowest I'd go. For going fast I wouldn't go below 20.

Thanks for the tips. I've been cognizant of weight and avoided some things for now such as steel bumpers. My recovery gear seems to take the most weight so far, but my cooler is a monster. Probably weighs 120 pounds loaded. I'll also be putting 10 gallons of fuel on the roof.

It's hard to know what breaks typically but it sounds like you've got a breadth of experience. Not sure I'll bring a front axle since I wouldn't know how to install it anyhow. Can you get off a trail with a broken front axle? Go into 2WD if the trail permits? How were the alternators failing? Just age? Or too may LED lights? Ha ha.... Spare key is a great idea for sure and I've got spare fuses. If the valve stem breaks I may just run the spare since I'm not confident of my trail repair for that. Perhaps something to practice. I do have metal stems though. Perhaps more rugged. Thanks again Jetboy.

 

[axisbogner]

You shouldn't be working on/under the truck while on a hi-lift unless no other options are available. Jack it up with the hi-lift and lower it onto an appropriate jack-stand. I use 12 ton jack stands because of the 2.5inch lift. Make sure you choke-block the wheel on the other end of the vehicle (ie if raising the rear, choke the front and visa versa)

You can pick up some 12 ton jack stands at harbor freight for $100.

On the trail you can tie the axle to the frame with a strong enough strap, or strap the rear coil. In both cases you add risk with a tensioned strap that might break and release the axle while you are working on it.

You can also use a scissor-jack or bottle jack under the axle. But that's also questionable in terms of staying secure under the axle.

Okki

Good tips. Thanks Okki. I think my backup method for rear tire will become Hi Lift with lift mate then use the jack stands. I'll check out harbor freight, although I've been a bit reluctant to go there for things that might involve my personal safety.. ha ha...

After all this, perhaps my sliders won't be used for anything but sliding along rocks! Ha!

 

[Jeremy556]

Thanks for the tips. I've been cognizant of weight and avoided some things for now such as steel bumpers. My recovery gear seems to take the most weight so far, but my cooler is a monster. Probably weighs 120 pounds loaded. I'll also be putting 10 gallons of fuel on the roof.

It's hard to know what breaks typically but it sounds like you've got a breadth of experience. Not sure I'll bring a front axle since I wouldn't know how to install it anyhow. Can you get off a trail with a broken front axle? Go into 2WD if the trail permits? How were the alternators failing? Just age? Or too may LED lights? Ha ha.... Spare key is a great idea for sure and I've got spare fuses. If the valve stem breaks I may just run the spare since I'm not confident of my trail repair for that. Perhaps something to practice. I do have metal stems though. Perhaps more rugged. Thanks again Jetboy.

I wouldn't put 63 pounds on the roof rack regularly if I could help it.

If you bust a front axle shaft or CV, you're not going anywhere.

 

[axisbogner]

Does a choke block require 2 wheel chocks or 4? Not sure I'm clear what this is.

Do you have a recommended Jack Stand for off road use? I'm typically on loose dirt and rocks. Seems like most jack stands are terrible for off road with 4 skinny legs. Which is why I like my Bottle/jack stand that has a flat metal bottom (see link in my top post). Another suggestion would be great.

 

[axisbogner]

I wouldn't put 63 pounds on the roof rack regularly if I could help it.

If you bust a front axle shaft or CV, you're not going anywhere.

So what did I install the prinsu rack on my T4R for? Ha... Yeah I get it. Wish there was a better answer for the fuel but it's not going inside and don't have a back mount. The Hi Lift is on the roof too :-/ But no other significant weight.

Do you keep a CV joint on your trips too?

 

[Jetboy]

I wouldn't fret too much about the axle shaft. It's really unlikely that you'll break one without re-geared axles and a bunch of weight on taller tires. That's usually the formula. Also - be smart behind the wheel. When you're stuck and it starts to hop or bounce - stop. It's rare that you'll ever bounce your way out of where you're at. And my general experience is that about the 4th bounce is when something breaks. It's the shock load on the axle that causes the failure most times for me.

The front CV axles are pretty easy to swap on the trail. You won't want to drive far, but you could limp a few miles if you really had to. Go very slow. The floppy end of the axle will be bouncing around uncontrolled and could do a lot of damage if you go fast. If you had to run without it - you need to cut the boots off on both ends and remove the axle shaft from both joints. Then you'd also want to leave the broken end of the outer CV still in the hub to hold the wheel bearing together. And you'll need to leave the inner CV in the differential to keep the fluid inside. Then you could drive in 2wd. This isn't ideal - but it would work in a pinch. - also as a side note - tip the vehicle to the opposite side so the gear lube doesn't pour out of the open axle shaft hole when you're swapping them and you can skip draining and re-filling the diff in the dirt. That's not very fun.

Toyota did a fantastic job of changing around the front suspension design in a way that makes it really easy to do. But you'll need to have all the tools to do it. The biggest missing tool from most standard kits would be a socket large enough for the outer nut on that holds the outer shaft in the hub. IIRC it's a 35mm, but a 36mm is more common and works just fine too. You should be able to buy one for under $10.

Unless you're going rock crawling I would probably not be too worried about it. I don't carry a spare axle unless I'm going somewhere that I am going specifically to rock crawl. I've never broken one in this 4runner either. They're way stronger than the old ifs axles. But I've broken enough axles on other vehicles that it's just a nice piece of mind to have. IMO - just buy a cheap replacement axle on Amazon/Ebay for $50 and it'll work to get you home. It's not as strong as the OEM toyota ones - but it's a spare. You could probably watch on youtube how to swap one out. Having the right pry bar to pry the inner side out of the differential is always a PITA. It takes more force than you think.

The same shaft assembly works on both sides. So you only need one.

Also - there's really not very many truly remote areas in north america. I hate giving this advice - but the reality is that if you have all the tools, someone will come along and be able to help you get it swapped out. I've helped a ton of people do trail repairs over the years and had help myself too. It wasn't true 20 years ago, but in today's world there's so many more vehicles out everywhere that having the parts and specialty tools is probably more important than knowing how to do it.

 

[Jeremy556]

So what did I install the prinsu rack on my T4R for? Ha... Yeah I get it. Wish there was a better answer for the fuel but it's not going inside and don't have a back mount. The Hi Lift is on the roof too :-/ But no other significant weight.

Do you keep a CV joint on your trips too?

I found I could never live with the hilift on the roof. On bumps it would rattle, no matter what I did with regard to mounts.

I've got over 200K miles on my original axles, more than 110K with 4.56 gears, air locker, 34" MTRs, and 5900lb curb weight. I just replaced an inner boot on my driver's side this past weekend that sprung a leak, otherwise nothing. I don't carry a spare.

If you avoid excessive wheel spin/hopping, it is highly unlikely you will ever break one.