Final Torque on LBJ bolts

[AntleredRuin]

So I saw this mentioned on RoofRack's LBJ failure post, and I though I'd give this a little more light;

Do LBJ bolts need to have the final torque done with tire on the ground, or while up in the air with the wheel still off?

This is the second time I've seen this mentioned in a few weeks, when I never saw it ANYWHERE else in my research the MONTHS leading up to my replacement. So, naturally, I torqued them while up in the air.
Where did this info come from? (I did not use any 'official' manual)

Everything looks and feels fine on them and it's been about 5k miles since. Should I loosen them and retorque while on the ground, or just keep watch on them? Is this just the 4 bolts per LBJ, or the Tie Rod and LBJ Castle nut as well? If it's just the bolts, are they already compromised and should/could I replace while on the ground one at a time?

Sorry for the new post, but if this is as critical as I think it may actually be, I think that it needs to be pretty forefront, if only for the search function. Go all OEM with the expectation that they'll last another 100k+ easy, but they still break due to improper torque procedures... This needs to be common knowledge if that is the case.

 

[RonJR]

I just checked the 1997 factory service manual, and there's no mention of torqueing on the ground (or in the air) in the LBJ installation procedure. Not sure where this bit of internet wisdom came from, unless there's a TSB someone knows about.

 

[AntleredRuin]

I just checked the 1997 factory service manual, and there's no mention of torqueing on the ground (or in the air) in the LBJ installation procedure. Not sure where this bit of internet wisdom came from, unless there's a TSB someone knows about.

Ok that's good to know. Toyota themselves don't seem to have an opinion on which is better.
I think it may just be a 'rule of thumb' for suspension work, though I'm not sure if it applies here. I've never done any suspension work except for my LBJs, so I never knew this 'rule of thumb' until it was 'too late'.

I would assume if it was that mission critical, the mantra would be,
"OEM and torque while on ground, OEM and torque while on ground, OEM and torque while on ground",
vs just,
"OEM, OEM, OEM."

 

[Srt4runner]

I torqued mine while in the air. I think it's more important to make sure you use only OEM parts, blue loctite on the NEW bolts, use a properly calibrated torque wrench, and check the torque 1 more time after you put some miles on them.

I did mine at around 134k miles, however I found out mine were replaced at the dealer by the prior owner under a recall at around 80k. Still worth the piece of mind since I rebuilt the whole front suspension.

 

[Yoder68]

Ok that's good to know. Toyota themselves don't seem to have an opinion on which is better.
I think it may just be a 'rule of thumb' for suspension work, though I'm not sure if it applies here. I've never done any suspension work except for my LBJs, so I never knew this 'rule of thumb' until it was 'too late'.

I would assume if it was that mission critical, the mantra would be,
"OEM and torque while on ground, OEM and torque while on ground, OEM and torque while on ground",
vs just,
"OEM, OEM, OEM."

'cept on a 3rd gen, with the rig resting on the wheels on the ground, the LBJ is being pulled down, the castle nut is being pulled down and off, the four mounting bolts are being pulled down and out.

Imagine it this way: starting with the big castle nut threaded on a few turns only, and the four nuts threaded in a few turns, then lowering the rig to the ground, then using the torque wrench to tighten the nuts and bolts, lifting the lca and lbj up into place. Seems like only special cases where threads are used this way (like a screw jack).

I left my rig jacked by the frame, wheel off the ground, and used another jack under the lca to firmly press everything together before torquing.

How does that sound?

 

[AntleredRuin]

I torqued mine while in the air. I think it's more important to make sure you use only OEM parts, blue loctite on the NEW bolts, use a properly calibrated torque wrench, and check the torque 1 more time after you put some miles on them.

I did mine at around 134k miles, however I found out mine were replaced at the dealer by the prior owner under a recall at around 80k. Still worth the piece of mind since I rebuilt the whole front suspension.

How many miles do you have on them now after changing them at 134k?

 

[Srt4runner]

How many miles do you have on them now after changing them at 134k?

about 5k, they are still like new. I think the rust will take my 4runner away from me before I put enough miles on it to change them again.

 

[AntleredRuin]

'cept on a 3rd gen, with the rig resting on the wheels on the ground, the LBJ is being pulled down, the castle nut is being pulled down and off, the four mounting bolts are being pulled down and out.

Imagine it this way: starting with the big castle nut threaded on a few turns only, and the four nuts threaded in a few turns, then lowering the rig to the ground, then using the torque wrench to tighten the nuts and bolts, lifting the lca and lbj up into place. Seems like only special cases where threads are used this way (like a screw jack).

I left my rig jacked by the frame, wheel off the ground, and used another jack under the lca to firmly press everything together before torquing.

How does that sound?

I'd think that using another jack under the LCA would be pretty much the same as just having the wheel on the ground, correct?

about 5k, they are still like new. I think the rust will take my 4runner away from me before I put enough miles on it to change them again.

Dern, I was hoping you'd say longer than that. Haha

 

[Yoder68]

I'd think that using another jack under the LCA would be pretty much the same as just having the wheel on the ground, correct?



I do not think it is the same thing at all.

 

[nevada]

So I saw this mentioned on RoofRack's LBJ failure post, and I though I'd give this a little more light;

Do LBJ bolts need to have the final torque done with tire on the ground, or while up in the air with the wheel still off?

This is the second time I've seen this mentioned in a few weeks, when I never saw it ANYWHERE else in my research the MONTHS leading up to my replacement. So, naturally, I torqued them while up in the air.
Where did this info come from? (I did not use any 'official' manual)

Everything looks and feels fine on them and it's been about 5k miles since. Should I loosen them and retorque while on the ground, or just keep watch on them? Is this just the 4 bolts per LBJ, or the Tie Rod and LBJ Castle nut as well? If it's just the bolts, are they already compromised and should/could I replace while on the ground one at a time?

Sorry for the new post, but if this is as critical as I think it may actually be, I think that it needs to be pretty forefront, if only for the search function. Go all OEM with the expectation that they'll last another 100k+ easy, but they still break due to improper torque procedures... This needs to be common knowledge if that is the case.

in the air for sure.
on the ground is going to put pressure on them, they may not get torqued down correctly this way.


control arms(at the bushing) need to be tightened with the full weight of the vehicle, and in the normal ride height.
maybe you are getting these 2 things mixed up?

 

[kolelt]

Never torqued mine. Never used loctite. Just used anti seize and I'm good.

 

[gamefreakgc]

So I saw this mentioned on RoofRack's LBJ failure post, and I though I'd give this a little more light;

Do LBJ bolts need to have the final torque done with tire on the ground, or while up in the air with the wheel still off?

This is the second time I've seen this mentioned in a few weeks, when I never saw it ANYWHERE else in my research the MONTHS leading up to my replacement. So, naturally, I torqued them while up in the air.
Where did this info come from? (I did not use any 'official' manual)

Everything looks and feels fine on them and it's been about 5k miles since. Should I loosen them and retorque while on the ground, or just keep watch on them? Is this just the 4 bolts per LBJ, or the Tie Rod and LBJ Castle nut as well? If it's just the bolts, are they already compromised and should/could I replace while on the ground one at a time?

Sorry for the new post, but if this is as critical as I think it may actually be, I think that it needs to be pretty forefront, if only for the search function. Go all OEM with the expectation that they'll last another 100k+ easy, but they still break due to improper torque procedures... This needs to be common knowledge if that is the case.

I can guarantee that when the truck was assembled in the factory they were torqued in the air, since there was not even tires on the vehicle at that point!

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I'd think that using another jack under the LCA would be pretty much the same as just having the wheel on the ground, correct?...

On many vehicles you would be correct. On the 4Runner, that is not the case. I won't get into the suspension geometry and the resulting forces of it but... PERSONALLY, I believe the procedure should be 1- assemble with wheel in the air and snug bolts 2- lower wheel so all weight is on the ground (tighten any slack in nuts/bolts - snug again) 3- lift the vehicle from under the LCA 4- torque all nuts/bolts with the weight of the vehicle resting on the LCA.

The reasoning for my OPINION is that, even with the full weight of the vehicle resting on the wheel, on the ground, the suspension design is pushing the LCA away from the UCA. That means you have tension resisting the torque you are applying to the nuts/bolts unless you have the full weight on the LCA.

As an aside note... With the wheel in the air, the forces resisting the torquing of the nuts/bolts for the LBJ are probably not major enough to cause this procedure to be truly of a major concern. I would bet (money ) that in effect it doesn't matter. The torque specs are probably high enough that the difference in procedure doesn't have a real effect. However, I still respect the question and I would ask the same thing.

 

[mtbtim]

It sounds like an over-analyzation of a pretty simple job. It makes sense to me that you would just torque the bolts while the truck is still up on jack stands. I don't understand why you would have to put the weight of truck on the wheels before tightening the bolts to spec.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

It sounds like an over-analyzation of a pretty simple job. It makes sense to me that you would just torque the bolts while the truck is still up on jack stands. I don't understand why you would have to put the weight of truck on the wheels before tightening the bolts to spec.

I'll give one real reason why this is a big question. Without weight on the the LBJ, tightening the LBJ castle nut can cause the ball joint itself to spin. This will prevent the user from getting the nut torqued to anywhere near 105 lb/ft. By first setting the weight on the wheel, you will help align the ball joint stud into its socket. Then, lifting the vehicle weight below the LCA, the ball joint stud will be better situated into its socket. At that point, the ball joint is much less likely to spin while the castle nut is torqued to the full 105 lb/ft.

 

[Yoder68]

I'll give one real reason why this is a big question. Without weight on the the LBJ, tightening the LBJ castle nut can cause the ball joint itself to spin. This will prevent the user from getting the nut torqued to anywhere near 105 lb/ft. By first setting the weight on the wheel, you will help align the ball joint stud into its socket. Then, lifting the vehicle weight below the LCA, the ball joint stud will be better situated into its socket. At that point, the ball joint is much less likely to spin while the castle nut is torqued to the full 105 lb/ft.

The tapered part of the lbj stud needs to be tight in the tapered part of the lca before torquing the castle nut. Pushing up on the lca ensures this tight fit and keeps the stud from spinning. I imagine even without pushing up, the tapered part will lock up in most cases. If the stud isn't turning while you tighten, it's probably fine?

 

[frodiesel]

I'll give one real reason why this is a big question. Without weight on the the LBJ, tightening the LBJ castle nut can cause the ball joint itself to spin. This will prevent the user from getting the nut torqued to anywhere near 105 lb/ft. By first setting the weight on the wheel, you will help align the ball joint stud into its socket. Then, lifting the vehicle weight below the LCA, the ball joint stud will be better situated into its socket. At that point, the ball joint is much less likely to spin while the castle nut is torqued to the full 105 lb/ft.

No. Dont see anyone having this issue. Its tapered dont see how it would spin. Lower control arms need the weight on them before tightened not the ball joint. Why do people feel the NEED to over analysis this, bc they can fail catastrophicly?

 

[thegipper]

People are WAY over thinking this. I torqued mine while in the air.

If you are worried about it, torque them while they are in the air and check them once weight is on them. I bet you they stay torqued and don't change at all.

Are we done yet?

 

[AntleredRuin]

I think I'm over analyzing as well, but one can never be too careful. especially with a part that can send me rolling at 70mph if it fails.

I can guarantee that when the truck was assembled in the factory they were torqued in the air, since there was not even tires on the vehicle at that point!

You make a good point here; I never even thought about that.


I'm no suspension expert (or really even novice) so my apologies to anyone who thought this was a stupid question. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything, what with this 'new' information.

If the general consensus is 'torque while in the air', then I think we're good.

 

[TheDurk]

I torqued my bolts while the spindle was lying on the kitchen table. The castle nut I will do in the air. If it spins, I'll put the weight on it. (Spindle is still on kitchen table.) As long as you get the wrench to click, in my book, you're good.

Rubber bushings, different story. Doing rear diff today to light tightness, will torque on the ground.