First Attempt - Timing Belt Change - Questions

[DCtoobs42]

So I am working on getting a 99 T4R in shape after buying it about a month ago. I did a bunch of research and read a lot of the different write ups on the job (as well as the FSM) and it seemed very straightforward.... I ordered a kit with all new idler and tensioner pulleys, water pump + gasket, thermostat +gasket, hydraulic tensioner, timing belt and accessory belts. All of which went into the truck. These were all Aisin, Toyota and Koyo branded.

However, I did make a rookie mistake. Once i got everything back together and started her up, she idled fairly smoothly, but when i put it into gear it shuttered and she has some hesitation when accelerating. I realized after the fact that I may be one tooth off due to the possible slack in the T-belt on the driver's side or that I might be 180 degrees out of phase because i did rotate the crankshaft with the belt off and didnt keep track of it. So if i get down there and the timing marks are slightly off, i could fix that and still potentially be 1 turn of the Crankshaft off.

I haven't torn it back down to check yet as I am taking a couple of days break from this, but my questions are:

(a) Will the engine even start if the crank is 1 turn out of timing? (ie. if it starts it should be in phase, right...?)
(b) Is there an easy way to make sure that the timing is in phase without doing this by trial and error (which may result in me doing this twice)?

I appreciate everyone's help in advance.

 

[Whitson Metalworks]

it seems to me that it would not run at all being 180 out. turning the crank without keeping track is certainly problematic but if the timing marks lined up and it actually idled smoothly, i would be inclined to believe the timing is fine. try looking around for unhooked vacuum lines or spark plug wires, also pull the plugs to see which ones arent firing and how they look (sooty, wet with fuel...). i havent checked myself but a manual should show a way of setting top dead center for #1 cyl, this would help verify timing marks.

 

[DCtoobs42]

Thanks, Whitson. I just replaced plugs and wires a couple of weeks ago, so they are all firing. I am hoping that it just is one tooth off from the slight slack on the DS of the Tbelt as I read in another post.

 

[Whitson Metalworks]

when i did mine i certainly did not have slack that would allow it to skip a tooth, hell i could barely get it on with the tensioner pinned. also, one tooth would either advance or re**** the timing a small amount, depending on which gear is off.

 

[DCtoobs42]

Well.. I cant really be sure if im a tooth or two off... but however far off it is, it's enough to make it run very rough (much rougher than it did before the change). Best Case Secenario is that I get in there and the timing marks still line up, then I know its 180 off, I turn the crank once, put the belt back on, check again and put everything back together.

Worst Case is that timing marks don't line up, then I won't know if its just that or both issues at the same time. Luckily its a non-interference...

 

[ghiaguy181]

DC, I had the same problems as you with barely being able to get the belt on with the tensioner pinned. I had to try multiple times to get it all installed without the belt slipping a tooth or two. I'm betting that your belt is off, you could remove all external belts and the fan and covers again and try setting the harmonic balancer on TDC and see where you are at on the cam pulleys. I don't know this engine that well but it is possible that it could run 180 degrees out, I know there are some engines this is possible with. If you need to find TDC on #1 you can try loosening the spark plug till it has one or two threads left. Rotate engine slowly and hopefully you will hear the cylinder hiss as you reach the compression stroke. You can rotate the engine counter clockwise a bit to make sure you have not gone past TDC. Then remove #1 plug and get a long rod (preferably plastic or wood) to put in the plug hole until you reach the top of the piston, rotate engine clockwise slowly until the rod stops moving out of the cylinder and you should be really close to TDC and then you can rotate accordingly to get the Harmonic Balancer on its mark. Good luck and don't forget to report back!

 

[DCtoobs42]

Ghia, Thanks. I spoke with a truck aficionado in the office and we basically formulated the same type of plan. I wont be getting back into this until Sunday when I break everything down again, and I will be getting the Schley Tensioner tool in the mail on Tuesday, so it will likely be Weds or Thurs of next week until I report back. It is likey that I am a tooth or two off, but I really wanted to be sure that I was at TDC instead of BDC and your post helps greatly. I will let everyone know how it goes next week.

Cheers,

 

[kball]

To get TDC just align the marks on the harmonic balancer.

 

[DCtoobs42]

Alright...

I got back down to the timing belt last night (it was much quicker this time, ha) and found that my RH (passenger side) cam pulley was about 20 degrees left of its mark, but the LH cam and Crankshaft Pulley were dead on. This would explain the shutter/hesitation as the cam position sensor is based on the RH cam pulley.

However, I know that the cam pulleys lined up when I installed this the first time, so the belt has likely slipped and I will be sure to replace the hydraulic tensioner on this trip into the engine.

Backstory: I got a new tensioner in the kit, but could not get the old one out (I didn't alternate loosening bolts so the bolt buried behind the AC comp. bracket appeared to be stuck). So I re-compressed with a C-clamp that i keep on hand for brake work, stuck the pin in and moved on. I will take my time and get the old one out of there this time as I think i may have compressed it too quickly because the pass side of the Tbelt now has some play/slack.

Definitely learning my lesson this time. Be Patient. Read all steps and all parts in FSM. They are there for a reason.

Thanks for the help guys and I will update when i get the truck running smoothly again.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Keep us posted on your progress. Good luck.

 

[DCtoobs42]

Finished!

First of all: Thank you to all that offered ideas, thoughts or encouragement. This job took longer and was harder than I had anticipated, but I am happy to be done and to have learned so much about my truck in the process...

So, the old tensioner was shot. Once I got everything out of the way I alternated loosening the bolts and it came out as it should have. I got the new one in there and all the pulleys in. The timing belt went on easily (I got a new one because I thought I may have contaminated or damaged the first one, so I played it safe) and all the timing marks lined up through 4 cycles of the engine. I checked the timing one more time once I torqued down the Crankshaft bolt to 217 ft/lbs (wow) and everything was fine. The CEL was one for a couple of minutes when i started it back up, but it stopped after a couple of minutes when everything got settled in. I did all the checks after everything was back together and its running great!

Now that most of the PM is done (I will change the Diff Oil in all cases in a few weeks) I can get down to fixing a couple minor interior things and get my plan together for mods.

Thanks Guys.

 

[Bill_Dunnigan]

i'll be doing this soon my rig will be hitting 100k this year, so this definitely helps. can you post up what kit you bought?
also when should this be done mileage wise?

 

[DCtoobs42]

This ended up being longer than I anticipated...

i'll be doing this soon my rig will be hitting 100k this year, so this definitely helps. can you post up what kit you bought?
also when should this be done mileage wise?

Bill,

Here is a link to the kit I bought on Amazon, it is for a 5vzfe engine:

Timing Belt Kit Toyota 4 Runner 3.4L 5VZFE V6 (1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002)

Also, I think the manual has the interval on the TB at 90k, but you will be fine doing this around 100k as I did. You might not be able to notice wear on the belt, but it is a good idea to do it.

A couple of hints:

1) This kit came with a 1065mm belt for the power steering pump, you might want to contact the seller and see if they can do and 1070 or 1075. the 1065 was a VERY tight squeeze for me and that was with the PS tensioner bolt alllllll the way out.

2) I found that to get the timing belt on, I lined up the crankshaft timing mark one tooth counter clockwise and put the T-belt on in order of Crankshaft gear, tensioner pulley, water pump, RH (Passenger side)cam, LH cam, then bolt in the idler pulley to 30 ft/lbs. Still align the marks on the new belt with the timing marks and when you turn the engine over by hand to check, the tensioner will kick in and everything should be in line.

3) This might be a good time to do some PM and change out the radiator too (if you have the money) IMO. You will already have most of the hoses disconnected and the coolant drained. People who have run into the Pink Milkshake usually say it happens around 130K, so for 100 extra bucks or so it is cheap insurance unless you have already done the tranny cooler mod. Also, you will have a lot more space to work with the rad out of the way. However, you may be able to wait up to 2 or 3 more years before you want to do this.

4)Be sure sure alternate loosening the bolts on the hydraulic tensioner, I rushed and didnt do this and ended up almost completely striping the head of one of thos bolts trying to get it off and then did it right on the second try... It came off so easy if you loosen both before taking one all of the way out.

In the end, take your time, find a write up that you like and xref it to the Factory Service Manual. Good Luck!

 

[Bill_Dunnigan]

Thank, this is great! Just one more question... How long should this take me? A weekend? I have done axle swaps and clutches in the past, so while I'm no mechanic, I'm certainly capable. Thanks

 

[DCtoobs42]

I ran into a couple of snags as this was my first major undertaking... but I would think that you could get it done in a weekend. You might be able to get it done in one day if you have air tools.

Also, do some research and be ready to either build a tool to hold the Crankshaft pulley while you crank it down to torque or have one on hand. I used a 2x4 with a 1.5" hole for the socket and two long machine bolts that get all the way back into the metal backing on the harmonic balancer. Another tool you will need is a torque wrench for 14 ft lbs up to 217/218 ft lbs on the crankshaft bolt. Advance, AutoZone or Oreilly's have loaner programs.

If you are replacing the hydraulic tensioner it will be hard to get to both bolts. I had to take off the AC compressor and bracket, which took a while. I left the compressor hoses attached and just shifted it around as needed. It helped a lot to have the airbox and air intake out of the engine bay to see bolts and get to them easier (and is a convenient place to rest tools and bolts when your hands are otherwise tied up).

Finally, don't forget to protect your radiator if you leave it in and good luck on the job!