First capability mod Which Locker and gears?

[Gremcat]

So I am looking at doing the first mod to improve capability before heading to Uwharrie this fall. I have most of the maintenance updates done. I am going to do the locker and new gears and then see what I want for a suspension and larger tires. I am also trying to find some tubing to build some armor and need to make some new skids on the Plasma/waterjet.

I DD this and want something that won't break on my 200+/- round trip. I also want to get some better gearing because this thing is geared way to high. When I am in 4th and doing 55 and it is still only 2000-2300 RPMs it feels like a dog. When I throw it in 5th around 60 it drops to 1800 RPMs. Weird I don't remember my PU being like this but I am 99% sure these are stock gears.

I am on a slight budget though with a new born and two older kids. I was thinking Detroits might be the way to go and doing the rear first would gain me the most. What gears are you guys running for DD and lower range capability? I have an 89 SR5 V-6. I am also reading up on transfer cases and if I am not mistaken the V-6 model is not as robust as the 4 cyl model is that right? Trying to work towards something and not put in parts only to have to upgrade later. I am still trying to decide if a SAS is right for what I want to do with it so I am leaving the front alone for now. After this years hunting trips and a few camping trips at Uwharrie I will know better about what I want. I am not planning on any heavy crawling where I would potentially roll-trash it any. I want it to take the abuse I will give it without fail but am not as abusive as some on my vehicles. This will take me out west potentially hunting so it needs to be pretty reliable. My pickup got beat and I still DD it but I was younger and stupid. I drove it for 2 months with a crushed rim and had to refill the tire everyday. We had to weld the leafs so it would pass inspection and then they would pop again in a few days. Not what I want to do with this.

 

[KidVermicious]

I'd do armor first, then lock it up. Spartan/Aussie rear, elocker/ARB front, and if you're going to have a front locker or regear it you should wait to do that until after you know if you're going to a solid axle, because you don't want to spend money twice.

Wait to do tires and lift until after you regear it, because if you're already sluggish then you'll hate bigger tires.

 

[nevada]

a winch should be the first thing you add. it pretty much guarantees you'll get back home to your kids each time.

after that, id say a rear locker.

im not a huge fan of armor, it adds unnecessary weight. just good solid bumpers and be done.

 

[Gremcat]

I was thinking skids and tube rocksliders/Bumpers. I will mount a winch too for sure. I need it anyway for pulling stuff out of the woods at the farm I hunt. A lot of times the deer drop in a spot I can't get close enough to haul out and it was logged poorly so it gets tricky carrying deer out on your shoulders and not breaking an ankle when healthy. I have a Ti rod for a leg now so it will be even worse. I am not quite to the point of picking out or building the armor so in the meantime I am thinking rear locker and gears. I read that an ARB is better in the rear with a Detroit in the front for better road handling. Am I backwards? Sorry not used to using lockers usually just beat it/pry it/drag it until it gets traction but like I said I am hoping those days are over. I am hoping this will be reliable enough to take trout fishing back home in the Adirondacks and if you get stuck there you could be 20-30 miles to the closest house or road. That is what happened to my PU. We came down a ravine/boulders scraping doors and a friggin tree was laying in the trail/road. Couldn't get around it just kept slipping on the rocks in the creek, couldn't sidehill back the way we came it was all pine needles and too steep. We had to hit the same ravine with speed and climb out but it killed a rim, leafs, wheel wells, etc. and we drove out 14 miles or so on a flat. I would like to be more capable next time for sure and don't enjoy driving junk anymore.

 

[Gremcat]

I'd do armor first, then lock it up. Spartan/Aussie rear, elocker/ARB front, and if you're going to have a front locker or regear it you should wait to do that until after you know if you're going to a solid axle, because you don't want to spend money twice.

Wait to do tires and lift until after you regear it, because if you're already sluggish then you'll hate bigger tires.

That is what I am thinking on the front too. What gearing should I run in the rear?

 

[nevada]

I was thinking skids and tube rocksliders/Bumpers. I will mount a winch too for sure. I need it anyway for pulling stuff out of the woods at the farm I hunt. A lot of times the deer drop in a spot I can't get close enough to haul out and it was logged poorly so it gets tricky carrying deer out on your shoulders and not breaking an ankle when healthy. I have a Ti rod for a leg now so it will be even worse. I am not quite to the point of picking out or building the armor so in the meantime I am thinking rear locker and gears. I read that an ARB is better in the rear with a Detroit in the front for better road handling. Am I backwards? Sorry not used to using lockers usually just beat it/pry it/drag it until it gets traction but like I said I am hoping those days are over. I am hoping this will be reliable enough to take trout fishing back home in the Adirondacks and if you get stuck there you could be 20-30 miles to the closest house or road. That is what happened to my PU. We came down a ravine/boulders scraping doors and a friggin tree was laying in the trail/road. Couldn't get around it just kept slipping on the rocks in the creek, couldn't sidehill back the way we came it was all pine needles and too steep. We had to hit the same ravine with speed and climb out but it killed a rim, leafs, wheel wells, etc. and we drove out 14 miles or so on a flat. I would like to be more capable next time for sure and don't enjoy driving junk anymore.

you have that backwards. if you can only have one selectable, you want it in the front.
ideally, in both ends tho.

 

[KidVermicious]

I read that an ARB is better in the rear with a Detroit in the front for better road handling. Am I backwards?

Yup. If you ever plan on needing to use 4wd and steer at the same time (snowy roads, offcamber mud, deep sand, etc), you want the front open, or a selectable locker you can turn off. An automatic locker or limited slip in front will make steering while in 4wd problematic. The rear is a great place for an automatic locker because it isn't a steering axle, so throw a $250 Spartan in there and run with it. It doesn't sound like you'll ever be running big enough tires to need a full carrier locker like a Detroit?

That is what I am thinking on the front too. What gearing should I run in the rear?

Ideally, the same gearing you've got in the front . Your best gear ratio is going to depend on your intended tire size, what motor and transmission combo, etc. The common wisdom says you should run 4.56 for 31s, 4.88 for 33s, and 5.29 for 35s. I'm running 5.29 with my 33s and don't mind the higher RPM, but I drive at altitude too. Your call.

 

[Gremcat]

Yup. If you ever plan on needing to use 4wd and steer at the same time (snowy roads, offcamber mud, deep sand, etc), you want the front open, or a selectable locker you can turn off. An automatic locker or limited slip in front will make steering while in 4wd problematic. The rear is a great place for an automatic locker because it isn't a steering axle, so throw a $250 Spartan in there and run with it. It doesn't sound like you'll ever be running big enough tires to need a full carrier locker like a Detroit?



Ideally, the same gearing you've got in the front . Your best gear ratio is going to depend on your intended tire size, what motor and transmission combo, etc. The common wisdom says you should run 4.56 for 31s, 4.88 for 33s, and 5.29 for 35s. I'm running 5.29 with my 33s and don't mind the higher RPM, but I drive at altitude too. Your call.

Thanks the long term plan is a set of 35's at most. I thought 31's would do it but it looks like I may still have some clearance issues on the farm with the current stump/log problem we have. There has been talk of clearing it with a dozer but it is a large property and some of it is tough to access so probably not.

 

[Gremcat]

Maybe it is the added weight or maybe I had larger tires on my old truck but the Runner sits lower to me for some reason. The truck was a 93 so maybe they where a bit taller? Me and my brother swapped it back and forth and he put the tires on it during his "Tenure" with it so I am not positive what they where but thought they where 31's must have been wrong.

 

[Gremcat]

I also read some reviews on the Spartan where it had some issues with medium to rough handling so I didn't know if it would be as bullet proof as I wanted.

 

[nevada]

I also read some reviews on the Spartan where it had some issues with medium to rough handling so I didn't know if it would be as bullet proof as I wanted.

no offense intended but, "on a budget" and "bullet proof" do not belong in the same sentence.

if you are truly looking for something that has the best chance of surviving, keep saving your money until you have enough for something good.
a Spartans, lock-rights, or any lunchbox lockers are inexpensive, and far from bullet proof.

 

[Gremcat]

no offense intended but, "on a budget" and "bullet proof" do not belong in the same sentence.

if you are truly looking for something that has the best chance of surviving, keep saving your money until you have enough for something good.
a Spartans, lock-rights, or any lunchbox lockers are inexpensive, and far from bullet proof.

Sort of on a budget but willing to wait and or spend and do it right was what I meant. I am hoping to come in under 1K with gears maybe closer to 800m would be good. "It only costs a little more to go cheap" this has bit me more times than I care to admit. I don't need to overbuild for something I won't use though. If it is bulletproof and capable enough I am good with it.

 

[KidVermicious]

If I remember right, USA Gear says the Spartan is good for up to 33" tires before they won't warranty it. I hear of guys running 35 or 37 inch tires with lunchbox lockers, but if I was going that big I'd run a Detroit or Grizzly. But if I was going to spend $600 or so on a full-carrier locker, I'd just put in an elocker and have the best of both worlds.

Your $1000 budget is completely unrealistic for the mods you're planning, by the way. If you go through with the SAS, you can figure $1500 minimum right there unless you do it completely from scratch and are really good at sourcing cheap used parts. Then even if you ignore the cost of a set of 35" tires, you'll have to budget another $750 or more for new gears in both differentials and somebody to set them up for you, and that's a "friend" rate. If you have to take them to a shop, you'll be approaching $1500 just in gears and setup, and and that number doesn't account for the cost of whatever lockers you choose to go with.

Have you considered going around the stumps?

 

[Gremcat]

If I remember right, USA Gear says the Spartan is good for up to 33" tires before they won't warranty it. I hear of guys running 35 or 37 inch tires with lunchbox lockers, but if I was going that big I'd run a Detroit or Grizzly. But if I was going to spend $600 or so on a full-carrier locker, I'd just put in an elocker and have the best of both worlds.

Your $1000 budget is completely unrealistic for the mods you're planning, by the way. If you go through with the SAS, you can figure $1500 minimum right there unless you do it completely from scratch and are really good at sourcing cheap used parts. Then even if you ignore the cost of a set of 35" tires, you'll have to budget another $750 or more for new gears in both differentials and somebody to set them up for you, and that's a "friend" rate. If you have to take them to a shop, you'll be approaching $1500 just in gears and setup, and and that number doesn't account for the cost of whatever lockers you choose to go with.

Have you considered going around the stumps?

Where is the fun in going around them Actually they are hidden in the bamboo grass so mostly invisible until you trip on one or hit one with a tire. My 1000 dollar budget is for the gear and locker in the rear not the full build. Sorry guess I need to be more clear.

 

[Hyde802]

Your front and rear gear ratios must match..

What gears are you running now? Auto or manual tranny?

http://www.brian894x4.com/Gearratiosanddiffs.html

Ist not uncommon to find used 4.56 and 4.88 (a little more rare) gears out of another runner or pickup, throw a lunch box in the rear and install them in one swoop.

A budbuilt skid, some sliders and a rear bumper will keep the body mostly stump free.

v6 t-cases are just as strong, just no after market support. They have 23 spline inputs vs the 4cyl 21, and lower reduction from the factory. 2.57 for the manual, 2.68 for the auto vs the 4cyl 2.28.

Toyota Pickup and 4Runner Drivetrain Specifications

If its as much as a dog as you say it is, you may want to spend some time under the hood rather than in the axles. Done a compression test?

 

[Gremcat]

Your front and rear gear ratios must match..

What gears are you running now? Auto or manual tranny?

Ist not uncommon to fins used 4.56 and 4.88 (a little more rare) gears out of another runner, throw a lunch box in the rear and install them in one swoop.

A budbuilt skid, some sliders and a rear bumper will keep the body mostly stump free.

v6 t-cases are just as strong, just no after market support. They have 23 spline inputs vs the 4cyl 21, and lower reduction from the factory. 2.57 for the manual, 2.68 for the auto vs the 4cyl 2.28.

Toyota Pickup and 4Runner Drivetrain Specifications

If its as much as a dog as you say it is, you may want to spend some time under the hood rather than in the axles. Done a compression test?

Manual transmission and not a dog in lower gears but once I hit the Highway it takes a while getting over 55 especially on small inclines. It had a full tune up and a few other things and I had my friend who ones a local shop drive it for a few weeks because I was in the hospital and he gave me a few small things it needed but most where pretty minor. I don't remember my truck being that bad on the highway but maybe it was it has been awhile since I drove it. I think 8 years or so. It is still running as far as I know. My uncle in NY is using it to pull out trees when logging.

 

[Gremcat]

It is also pretty tall geared I guess the term is in lower gears. I haven't taken it to the farm yet but I am betting even in 4L it will be a little to fast when navigating.

 

[KidVermicious]

My 1000 dollar budget is for the gear and locker in the rear not the full build.

Well, like I said, unless you scrounge from the used parts market, you'll be approaching $1500 just in gears and a locker, and that's if you cheap out.

$350 + shipping for front and rear USA Standard gears with setup kits on EBay, $250 + shipping for the Spartan on Rockauto, then you're going to need to find somebody to set them up for you - I get a bro rate of $150 a diff from my friend down the street, but a shop is going to charge you near twice that, and they may refuse to do it at all unless you use gears that they supply (and overcharge you for), so figure on another $500 at least for setup and that's assuming you pull the diffs yourself. You can add more if you want upmarket gears, a better locker, or need more than the mini-install kit. $1000 is optimistic - not undoable, but optimistic. And don't forget that if you do decide to SAS down the road, that the money you spent regearing the front will be money poured down the drain.

I don't mean to piss in your pot, but I think maybe you've got a little more research to do before you pull the trigger on any mods.

edit - for reference, this guy just got quoted $1700 for his regear, and that's not out of line. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/171684-regearing-toyota-4runner.html

 

[Hyde802]

^ Thats why I said used gears.

So no compression test, so we dont really know the shape of the engine other than what "your mechanic friend" says. Whats the timing set at? You can turn it up a bit, to 14ish for a little extra power bump.

If your gears are stock, this link should be able to tell you whats in the diffs. Gearratiosanddiffs

We work better with real numbers.

 

[Gremcat]

^ Thats why I said used gears.

So no compression test, so we dont really know the shape of the engine other than what "your mechanic friend" says. Whats the timing set at? You can turn it up a bit, to 14ish for a little extra power bump.

If your gears are stock, this link should be able to tell you whats in the diffs. Gearratiosanddiffs

We work better with real numbers.

No Compression test but the timing belt/chain was done factory about 40K miles before I bought it. I will do some more research. Thanks for the advice so far. I am realistically at least a month from being able to crawl around under it still. I did change the PS pump etc. but the more difficult to reach areas will be off limits still. I am crawling the walls waiting to be able to do something though. Anything at this point. I have been between hospital and bedridden and then rehabbing status since January. Ever wish you could sit on your butt for a few days and relax? Try it for 4 months it SUCKS