Folks with steel bumpers, get in here.

[Romeo1]

I know there’s lots of people on this forum with very tricked out rigs. For a while I’ve been thinking about getting steel recovery bumpers. For the obvious reasons. Winch mount. Recovery points. The 4XI bumpers have hi lift cut outs which is a neat idea for sure.

The rear bumper is mostly for clearance, and or getting a larger spare mounted and it’s no secret, the rear bumpers drag on rocks way before the front bumper does.

Here’s my question. How negatively does a heavy rear swing out bumper affect say steep uphill climbing performance? Is it enough to notice and take weight off of the front wheels when climbing the steep stuff? I just can’t help but think that much weight that far back and having the spare that high isn’t going to carry some consequences.

Is my concern legit or am I just over thinking it and need to go for it?

 

[Dezert4Runner]

I’m running the Nguyen Works rear with swingout. I weighed the stock hitch, bumper, brackets, hardware, etc and after weighing the new swingout bumper, the weight delta was in the single digits.

Basically it didn’t affect anything performance wise except giving me tons of clearance. My rear hitch was always the first thing that made contact when wheeling, long before my sliders did because the departure angle was so terrible. I never made contact with the stock rear bumper, and ran everything from green to black rated trails. That was with roughly 3” lift all around.

Stay away from the typical plate bumpers or get a tube bumper if weight is a main concern. Unless going with the heaviest bumpers, I’d say that a rear drawer/ RTT/ fridge/ giant cooler/ tons of gear, etc will make a bigger difference than the rear bumper is going to effectively do to performance. Either you’re loaded to the gills overlanding or packing lighter and doing a serious trail, most of the time the two don’t intersect.

 

[Devbot]

Thats not really how physics or suspension works. The 150-250lbs of a bumper - which is also the average weight of one passenger - is not going to completely cantilever a 4000lb vehicle just because it's sitting a little further back. Not unless you're on some extreme 30+ degree rocky trail where it would already be a concern with bouncing backwards and losing traction or you were completely, totally bottomed out and squishing bumpstops.
I mean by that metric your ass should be coming over your head every time you hit a downhill slope since your engine weighs double that plus change. Or look at it this way; if that were true, then why would people still buy them/why wouldn't it be common knowledge with tons of videos to support it?
Edit: I wanna note you may or may not find yourself getting a little better traction and handling with some weight in the back, depending on what you have installed. I found my Tokicos+Dobinsons annoyingly bouncy when unloaded. If you want to roughly try it, you can go to Home Depot or Lowes and grab some 50-75lb bags of concrete or sand for like $5 each

 

[Romeo1]

I’m running the Nguyen Works rear with swingout. I weighed the stock hitch, bumper, brackets, hardware, etc and after weighing the new swingout bumper, the weight delta was in the single digits.

Basically it didn’t affect anything performance wise except giving me tons of clearance. My rear hitch was always the first thing that made contact when wheeling, long before my sliders did because the departure angle was so terrible. I never made contact with the stock rear bumper, and ran everything from green to black rated trails. That was with roughly 3” lift all around.

Stay away from the typical plate bumpers or get a tube bumper if weight is a main concern. Unless going with the heaviest bumpers, I’d say that a rear drawer/ RTT/ fridge/ giant cooler/ tons of gear, etc will make a bigger difference than the rear bumper is going to effectively do to performance. Either you’re loaded to the gills overlanding or packing lighter and doing a serious trail, most of the time the two don’t intersect.

Going back to your roof top tent comment. Honestly an experience I had is what brought me to this point. My neighbor has an AEV bison JKU with a really fancy RTT. I’ll tell ya, you really notice the weight up on the roof while wheeling. It definitely felt top heavy.

 

[Romeo1]

Thats not really how physics or suspension works. The 150-250lbs of a bumper - which is also the average weight of one passenger - is not going to completely cantilever a 4000lb vehicle just because it's sitting a little further back. Not unless you're on some extreme 30+ degree rocky trail where it would already be a concern with bouncing backwards and losing traction or you were completely, totally bottomed out and squishing bumpstops.
I mean by that metric your ass should be coming over your head every time you hit a downhill slope since your engine weighs double that plus change. Or look at it this way; if that were true, then why would people still buy them/why wouldn't it be common knowledge with tons of videos to support it?
Edit: I wanna note you may or may not find yourself getting a little better traction and handling with some weight in the back, depending on what you have installed. I found my Tokicos+Dobinsons annoyingly bouncy when unloaded. If you want to roughly try it, you can go to Home Depot or Lowes and grab some 50-75lb bags of concrete or sand for like $5 each

Your probably right and I’m over thinking it. I know it won’t cantilever over, I just don’t want it to be lighter than it has to be up front when a wheel is off the ground.

 

[ZSW99]

You’re not crazy for being worried about it. Driving my old Silverado with 4 mountain bikes on a rack hanging off the back definitely made the front end light feeling sometimes.

That being said I can’t notice a difference with my swingout bumper on the 4Runner. My wheel is tucked tight as possible to the body though. If you have a winch up front I’d say it’s even more of a non-issue.

Getting rid of the rtt made the biggest difference for me off road

 

[Cree]

Going back to your roof top tent comment. Honestly an experience I had is what brought me to this point. My neighbor has an AEV bison JKU with a really fancy RTT. I’ll tell ya, you really notice the weight up on the roof while wheeling. It definitely felt top heavy.

Raising your CG versus moving it front or rear are two different ball games. Your track width is much shorter than your wheelbase, so the angle of moment is much tighter in regards to raising or lowering a CG. If you were to graphically depict the CG envelope of a vehicle, you'd notice that it's long on the x-axis, very short on the y.

 

[Romeo1]

You’re not crazy for being worried about it. Driving my old Silverado with 4 mountain bikes on a rack hanging off the back definitely made the front end light feeling sometimes.

That being said I can’t notice a difference with my swingout bumper on the 4Runner. My wheel is tucked tight as possible to the body though. If you have a winch up front I’d say it’s even more of a non-issue.

Getting rid of the rtt made the biggest difference for me off road

Yeah, that weight on top of the vehicle is a different feel for sure. That was in a V8 jeep on 35”s too. The weight of the hemi was noticeable too.

 

[Romeo1]

Raising your CG versus moving it front or rear are two different ball games. Your track width is much shorter than your wheelbase, so the angle of moment is much tighter in regards to raising or lowering a CG. If you were to graphically depict the CG envelope of a vehicle, you'd notice that it's long on the x-axis, very short on the y.

What your saying makes sense, and I agree, they aren’t the same thing. In the snowmobile world, with again which isn’t
the same thing, The sleds that have less weight on the back of them always climb higher and go farther.

 

[Sean K.]

Sorry in advance for bringing back the dead....just thought this was an interesting thread.

I think the offroad world in the last 20 years has figured out what racers knew all along....more weight is not the traction aid we all believed. Lighter is *almost always* better.

As another poster here said, overlanding and serious trails are not the same thing.

I think the bigger issue with swingouts (and I have one partially built for my Runner project) is that the tire itself gets caught on the ground when trying to climb or drop off steep ledges.

The weight is DEFINITELY an issue...which is why it's still popular to have "bumper monkeys" and spotters hanging off corners of vehicles (mostly with bodies) to balance out a vehicle or provide more contact pressure on certain corners.

That sounds somewhat counter to what I said earlier about weight, but if you think about it...on bigger obstacles, having a passenger exit the vehicle has, IME, made the difference between making an obstacle and not making it.

So, in my case, I plan to build the swing out where the swing out portion and spare can be removed via two 1" bolts and left at camp on harder trails. OBA and a good plug kit will take care of the trail issue of losing a tire as the spare is more for highway issues than trail, for me personally (I'm used to running buggies with no spare on the trail).

The other big drawback to the swing out mounted spare is the loss of visibility...but that applies to both the trail and highway. A rear mounted camera is a good work around....but adds complexity and cost.

 

[96RedRunner]

Sorry in advance for bringing back the dead....just thought this was an interesting thread.

I think the offroad world in the last 20 years has figured out what racers knew all along....more weight is not the traction aid we all believed. Lighter is *almost always* better.

So, in my case, I plan to build the swing out where the swing out portion and spare can be removed via two 1" bolts and left at camp on harder trails. OBA and a good plug kit.

No apology needed. Also showed us higher is not always better. Remember builder doing a Black Taco on 37's 2-3" lift,
sure wheel openings major trimmed was all about keeping it low. Taco had no problems rolling with buggies

My bumper a work in progress also my thoughts run same as yours on detachable swingout. Though I'll say 1" bolt
is overkill on shear strength 5/8" where I'm leaning.

 

[Sean K.]

No apology needed. Also showed us higher is not always better. Remember builder doing a Black Taco on 37's 2-3" lift,
sure wheel openings major trimmed was all about keeping it low. Taco had no problems rolling with buggies

My bumper a work in progress also my thoughts run same as yours on detachable swingout. Though I'll say 1" bolt
is overkill on shear strength 5/8" where I'm leaning.

Agree totally.....trail rigs used to be sky high compared to comp rigs. Now they are pretty close to the same as trail difficulty climbs.

Never thought my next car would have a 19" belly on 42s....or have 4 wheel steer and portals. Turns out, the #portalrevolution is real, lol.

Yep...100% overkill, lol. I went stupid simple though....mounted in double shear; no bearing, just heavy wall tubing turning on the bolt....that might get drilled for a grease fitting.

 

[96RedRunner]

Never thought my next car would have a 19" belly on 42s....or have 4 wheel steer and portals. Turns out, the #portalrevolution is real, lol.

Yep...100% overkill, lol. I went stupid simple though....mounted in double shear; no bearing, just heavy wall tubing turning on the bolt....that might get drilled for a grease fitting.

portalrevolution is real, Ha hell yea! throw in boat sided too if term is still used.

Thought on it more after posting figured you went big on hinge pin 1" for hinge pin = no worry's.

 

[Sean K.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_C4eEvS7tE

Yeah....VERY real....LOL.

 

[Devbot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_C4eEvS7tE

Yeah....VERY real....LOL.

One of the most insane climbs I've ever seen. Sand Hollow looks absolutely crazy. Looks a lot more appealing than Moab, imo