For those who wanted to know, misc maintenance issues.

[Ask10]

Hi all,

I just wanted to put this info out there for those that were curious for whatever reason. I just did a major service on my dad's T4R and found a lot of interesting things.

1. The 3.4 will run fine on Dex Cool for at least 6 years. I just talked to my dad, and when he took it to a shop, they filled it up with Dex Cool (specifically telling him so) because they thought the Toyota Pink was actually orange. He told me they said "I thought Toyotas used green, but yours for some reason is orange.". "I don't know, but that's what they told me." my dad said while holding up the same old bottle of Dex Cool they gave him, and the truck has been running fine since it's radiator job in 2008.

2. You can run power steering fluid only in the system despite saying ATF. I just drained the power steering fluid system and there wasn't a hint of red fluid anywhere. Purely clear, looked really clean actually.

3. You can go 16 years on a timing belt and 175,000 miles before it needs to be changed. His belt was original, and the only reason I know is because he's the original owner and didn't know what a timing belt was, so there's no way he changed it. The belt was cracked and about to snap it looked like, but nonetheelss, it made it.

4. Transmissions seems to last despite the fluid being pitch black. It looked darker than most motor oil I've changed, seems like it'd be at least 100k old.

5. The original spark plug wires are still on from the factory. My dad said "The mechanic said my truck didn't have spark plug wires, so I never replaced them. I'm guessing he thought the coil on plug ignition applied to both sides or something.


Okay, so that's it. If anyone was really worried about doing their maintenance right on the spot, don't worry. These trucks take abuse incredibly well I've found out after going through and servicing it.

Just FYI.

 

[amalik]

Hi all,

I just wanted to put this info out there for those that were curious for whatever reason. I just did a major service on my dad's T4R and found a lot of interesting things.

1. The 3.4 will run fine on Dex Cool for at least 6 years. I just talked to my dad, and when he took it to a shop, they filled it up with Dex Cool (specifically telling him so) because they thought the Toyota Pink was actually orange. He told me they said "I thought Toyotas used green, but yours for some reason is orange.". "I don't know, but that's what they told me." my dad said while holding up the same old bottle of Dex Cool they gave him, and the truck has been running fine since it's radiator job in 2008.

2. You can run power steering fluid only in the system despite saying ATF. I just drained the power steering fluid system and there wasn't a hint of red fluid anywhere. Purely clear, looked really clean actually.

3. You can go 16 years on a timing belt and 175,000 miles before it needs to be changed. His belt was original, and the only reason I know is because he's the original owner and didn't know what a timing belt was, so there's no way he changed it. The belt was cracked and about to snap it looked like, but nonetheelss, it made it.

4. Transmissions seems to last despite the fluid being pitch black. It looked darker than most motor oil I've changed, seems like it'd be at least 100k old.

5. The original spark plug wires are still on from the factory. My dad said "The mechanic said my truck didn't have spark plug wires, so I never replaced them. I'm guessing he thought the coil on plug ignition applied to both sides or something.


Okay, so that's it. If anyone was really worried about doing their maintenance right on the spot, don't worry. These trucks take abuse incredibly well I've found out after going through and servicing it.

Just FYI.

I hope your dad has fired his previous mechanic by now.

Also -- there is a difference between "can" and "should" --

 

[Ask10]

I hope your dad has fired his previous mechanic by now.

Also -- there is a difference between "can" and "should" --

His mechanic is now me, so in essence...yes. And I completely agree, it's just info for those who were curious. It wont deter me over maintaining my personal truck using OEM fluids from the dealer until the car dies.

 

[BrandonF]

I agree with your statement about toyotas taking abuse well. Shortly after I got mine, I replaced the clogged air filter, clogged pcv valve, original fuel filter (~190 000 miles), worn spark plugs and wires and cleaned the intake and throttle body. I was sure I'd see some sort of improvement in engine performance, smoothness, response or fuel economy... Nothing. It ran just as well as it did before.

 

[lude and rude]

timing belt to 175 is a huge stretch... glad you were able to go that long. my runner i bought off a guy that snapped at 110k, they put in a newer engine after that... just reiterating the can vs should

 

[BlazeRunner]

I thought these motors are non-inteference? Snapping a timing belt shouldn't do anything but temporarily disable the motor

 

[lude and rude]

I thought these motors are non-inteference? Snapping a timing belt shouldn't do anything but temporarily disable the motor

think your right but still not good for it lol... i think they found the engine for about this same price as a repair job. i just bought it that way

 

[kolelt]

Interesting little.things. did you just drain the tranny and refill?

So are these engines actually non interference?

You should probably check the front diff+transfer case+read diff fluids. Probably grease up the drive shafts. Just few tips.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Wait until you have to rebuild the engine, then you'll see why at the very least the vehicle calls for low silicate Toyota LLC (long life coolant, aka Toyota "red")

As someone said, can and should are two different things. The thing people forget to realize is that typical cooling system damage due to incorrect coolant is cumulative and slow to form. The catastrophic gelling and severe chemical reactions are rare. But severe corrosion, electrolysis, sand blasting due to Silicate drop out, and/or cavitation damage are expected. There's a lot of articles and data detailing why it is important to use coolant designed for the vehicle. You don't have to use the Toyota stuff, but you need to match their specs. Toyota Red has been used since the 90's and Toyota Pink for about a decade now. Many a customer vehicle I have seen ruined and doomed by improper coolant.

 

[jgue467]

So are these engines actually non interference?

Yes, the 3.4 is a non-interference engine, whew!

OP-I hate to ask but will look away fast, how often was the engine oil/filter changed? That's one we all know you can't cheat the devil on-the grim reaper comes for all neglected engines sooner than later. Despite that, live long and prosper-Luck! :banana:

 

[pluton]

I know from personal experience that the greater sin is to mix different types of coolant. For example, DeathCool( I love that name) and regular old fashioned green silicate: Radiator cloggage will soon result from this combination.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I know from personal experience that the greater sin is to mix different types of coolant. For example, DeathCool( I love that name) and regular old fashioned green silicate: Radiator cloggage will soon result from this combination.

This is the more common short term damage I was talking about, the longer term damage is harder to notice and will basically junk everything the coolant touches over time. Its basically the difference between rebuilding the engine and having to buy a new long block, radiator, heater core, hoses, lines, ect.

 

[kolelt]

Wait until you have to rebuild the engine, then you'll see why at the very least the vehicle calls for low silicate Toyota LLC (long life coolant, aka Toyota "red")

As someone said, can and should are two different things. The thing people forget to realize is that typical cooling system damage due to incorrect coolant is cumulative and slow to form. The catastrophic gelling and severe chemical reactions are rare. But severe corrosion, electrolysis, sand blasting due to Silicate drop out, and/or cavitation damage are expected. There's a lot of articles and data detailing why it is important to use coolant designed for the vehicle. You don't have to use the Toyota stuff, but you need to match their specs. Toyota Red has been used since the 90's and Toyota Pink for about a decade now. Many a customer vehicle I have seen ruined and doomed by improper coolant.

Mechanic at my local Toyota dealer said the Toyota red coolant wasn't introduced till like 98-99, don't exactly remember which year and he said that a 97 4runner never had red coolant from factory ? Do you think this is true ?

Can someone explain what would happen if the timing belt broke on a 5vzfe? Just cruious ?

 

[jgue467]

Mechanic at my local Toyota dealer said the Toyota red coolant wasn't introduced till like 98-99, don't exactly remember which year and he said that a 97 4runner never had red coolant from factory ? Do you think this is true ?

Can someone explain what would happen if the timing belt broke on a 5vzfe? Just cruious ?

Think i read the same coolant thought, still 16+ yrs ago.

Well mostly an inconvenience (unless you're luck enough the belt breaks when you're mechanic is test driving it!) since it will immediately stop producing power to the wheels. No damage to anything, if you turn the key you'll just get a quick spinning crank with no cams turning. Then it will need to be towed or pushed somewhere! Luck.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=99565]kolelt[/MENTION]

As far as I know, the 5VZ-FE was always designed for Toyota LLC "Red" and it was first used in the 4Runner in '96. I'm not entirely sure when Toyota started using the Long Life Coolant, I can't seem to find anything definitive about when Toyota switched over; I just know it was sometime in the 90's or so.

[MENTION=108285]Ask10[/MENTION]

Timing belt life is subjective based on everything from temperature, humidity, to how long coolant has been dripping on the belt, type of belt (there was a change over to different materials in the last decade that last far longer than old style belts) ect. Its impressive yours lasted that long to say the least, but one data point does not make a pattern (not trying to be mean, just pointing out that a singular anomaly does not make an average or data set.)

As for power steering fluid, its perfectly safe to run in your vehicle; in fact many times Toyota would tell technicians to use dedicated Power Steering Fluid in place of ATF if the customer complained about noise from the system, I think they just used ATF because it was cheaper than setting up a separate fluid tank and so on at the factory back then?

 

[RichardLillard1]

Interesting thread, but I don't think a few of the things being mentioned are solely 4Runner related.

I may have told this story on another thread, but my last car, before the 4Runner, was a '98 Camry with the 3.0 v6. I bought it from a friend of mine who had only been the second owner of the car and I was only comfortable buying it with 242k miles on it because I knew a lot about his driving style and because he sold it to me for $1,000.

The first thing I did was get to work on quite a few maintainance things that I knew had never been done. He bought the car in 2000 with 40k on the odometer, so I knew the last 200,000 had to have taken their toll on the car.

Started with drive belts, water pump, timing belt, plugs and wires, and struts.

I quickly discovered that ALL of these were original to the car. The plugs were...in a word...fouled, but still working. According to him, the car just, "took an extra couple seconds to turn over." But the thing was that they still worked. The car still ran just fine and got 28-30mpg if you were on the freeway.

The drive belts all said Toyota and I knew he had never taken it to any dealer for service, or had any belts changed. Yet somehow, despite the extreme dryness of the Phoenix desert, they worked just fine and didn't have many cracks in them.

The timing belt was the one that floored me the most; it was pretty dirty (quite a bit of dirt can get into the timing belt covers and it typically stays there), but there was nothing really wrong with the belt. I didn't trust leaving it on, but it certainly didn't line up with the horror stories I'd been hearing about cars that didn't have routine maintainance done over the years. Water pump stilled turned freely, too.

To this day, I find myself stumped as to how the car ran as well as it did with no major problems when all he did was brakes, tires, and oil for the 10.5 years he drove it. Maybe it was his driving style (very slow and gentle)? Maybe little Toyota elves broke into the car and tuned it up while he slept?

All I know is that in two years, I put another 50k on it and it's been running like a champ. It definitely has it's flaws (a power steering line, the rack and drive shafts are on my to do list along with some leaky valve covers), but it fires up just fine and still passes emissions without a problem. I'm not usually in the habit of naming my cars, but she's earned the title, "Old Reliable" to me.

I would probably still be driving it if I hadn't taken over a big band recently and used that as an excuse to buy a 4Runner for going on trail...er...loading equipment for the band.

 

[kolelt]

Think i read the same coolant thought, still 16+ yrs ago.

Well mostly an inconvenience (unless you're luck enough the belt breaks when you're mechanic is test driving it!) since it will immediately stop producing power to the wheels. No damage to anything, if you turn the key you'll just get a quick spinning crank with no cams turning. Then it will need to be towed or pushed somewhere! Luck.

Interesting, and if it happens while you drove the car just loses power and stops? It's crazy to know that for such and old car they actually made it non Interference

 

[BlazeRunner]

The first generation LS400s(89-94) also are non interference (1uzfe), the technology has been around for a while.
Toyota introduced red coolant in '88 or '89 I believe. Not sure which vehicles came with it from factory, but 3rd Gen 4Runners definitely did. 2003 or 04 introduced the pink coolant.

My 98 LS400 had regular power steering fluid when I bought it used, but it also had a PS leak. After regularly filling with atf everytime it was low, the leak slowly disappeared. Correct fluids make more difference than stopping and preventing leaks however.

 

[nevada]

2. You can run power steering fluid only in the system despite saying ATF. I just drained the power steering fluid system and there wasn't a hint of red fluid anywhere. Purely clear, looked really clean actually.


4. Transmissions seems to last despite the fluid being pitch black. It looked darker than most motor oil I've changed, seems like it'd be at least 100k old.



Just FYI.

yes, you can use PS fluid as well. there are quite a few people on here that say "NO ONLY ATF" but for the steering system, pretty much either can be used, mixed even with no issues.

I know from personal experience that the greater sin is to mix different types of coolant. For example, DeathCool( I love that name) and regular old fashioned green silicate: Radiator cloggage will soon result from this combination.

this.

This is the more common short term damage I was talking about, the longer term damage is harder to notice and will basically junk everything the coolant touches over time. Its basically the difference between rebuilding the engine and having to buy a new long block, radiator, heater core, hoses, lines, ect.

that doesn't really make sense. all the engines still use the same mix of dissimilar metals. why would one brand react differently to the coolant than another?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=84120]nevada[/MENTION]

I'm not a chemical engineer so I am not entirely sure, but all the data I have seen seems to show that proportions and mixtures of metals vary between manufacturers enough to need different coolant.

I'll see if I can find some information to better explain it later today, but basically the base coolant isn't that different, its all the additive packages that are required; some engines need better cavitation protection than electrolysis for example.