frame mounted hitch??...Toyota/Lexus??

[lezavw90]

If that is the case you have a defective hitch mount or worse. GO SEE YOUR DEALER TOUTE SUITE.

I tow ~3800 regularly, and while there is some flaking at the welds, the dealer insists it's okay. If more owners come forwards with a hitch issue they will address it.

I will swing by the dealer one of these days and have them check it out. It's not out a lot but enough to be visible. I fully have faith in toyotas designs that's why this our second one. I'm not even really that concerned that it is flexing, but if there is someway to go up to the next level like the Lexus hitch and it's simply a matter of bolting it on I'd gladly pay the minimal cost to achieve it.

 

[Qjake]

If indeed this hitch works on the 5th gen then this is a great find!! A frame mounted hitch is certainly preferable for weight distribution than our current set up. WDH's put enormous strain on the hitch itself and with the cross member mount, as noted above, it's bound to twist. IIRC there is a thread here that debates the use of WDH's on our trucks and the general consensus was don't use them and to use air bags instead, I'll try to find it. But keep in mind just because this hitch has a higher weight rating on the Lexus don't expect that to carry over to the 4Runner.

 

[Shooter33]

If what you say is true, then I highly recommend you never tow again until you get to your dealer and have them check it out. Something is seriously wrong. And if it's not like it was when it was new, it's not flexing. It's bending and taking a set. That's not right.

I've been towing my camper with a WDH for almost two years now. It weighs in at roughly 4800 lbs fully loaded. I have never experienced any paint flaking or what you are describing as flexing.

Seriously, have it checked out asap. You don't want to find out you've got a defective hitch while cruising down a busy interstate with the family aboard.

Good luck.

I know it's flexing due to the paint on the hitch cracked off and after disconnecting the trailer the hitch is no longer perpendicular to the ground as it was when new. I'm not putting unreasonable force on the wdh either I haven't used a pry bar to engage it I've been using my hand

 

[homeyclaus]

And just a psa: the 5th gen was tested to tow 5000lbs per SAE standard J2807. Look it up. The reader will discover that it's a lot more comprehensive than the tow ratings published by marketers in times past (think 5000 mile oil changes times past). Basically, the vehicle must, as shipped, tow its rated load up and down one of the steepest inclines in north america, maintain a minimum speed on said 12% grade, on a 100F day with the ac on max. It must also stop and start uphill repeatedly under the same circumstances, and descend with the same load, which has no brakes, btw. No idiot lights may come on during the tests, nor gauges go "to the red."

Just sayin'

 

[Antman]

And just a psa: the 5th gen was tested to tow 5000lbs per SAE standard J2807. Look it up. The reader will discover that it's a lot more comprehensive than the tow ratings published by marketers in times past (think 5000 mile oil changes times past). Basically, the vehicle must, as shipped, tow its rated load up and down one of the steepest inclines in north america, maintain a minimum speed on said 12% grade, on a 100F day with the ac on max. It must also stop and start uphill repeatedly under the same circumstances, and descend with the same load, which has no brakes, btw. No idiot lights may come on during the tests, nor gauges go "to the red."

Just sayin'

SAE standard J2807 EXPLAINED

 

[homeyclaus]

SAE standard J2807 EXPLAINED

Thanks antman. Copying and pasting links is a pain on the mobile phone i am currently using.

 

[1engineer]

I have stayed out of this thread because putting a heavier duty hitch on the 4Runner (than stock) is like me putting a 2" ball and receiver on my bicycle: It might fit but the vehicle is not designed for the load.

As far as our current hitch flexing when pulling a load: It could, and as bad as that sounds it's not. Very few components don't flex somewhat during loading. Almost all are designed to flex a little. Now, using paint flecks to gauge flex is not a preferred measurement as far as I know. You open up a whole new can of worms there. Homeyclaus and Antman cited the standard. I have towed with mine and while I have not been at the limit it did just fine at about 4K. I DID NOT buy this vehicle to use to tow frequently. If I wanted to do that there are much better vehicles out there built for that type of service such as any 3/4 ton diesel pickup. Would a frame mounted hitch be better? Probably but not necessary.

Lastly, ANYTHING can bend if enough force is used.

 

[philsey]

Thanks 1-E.

I was going to say "what's the point to a Lexus hitch" .... but you're soooo much more elequent.

 

[drnick]

question is simple,has anyone......

I see that I opened up a can of worms:wow2:All I want to know,for the 2011 toyota 4 runner,can I,or has someone installed,a frame mounted hitch(either
Drawtite 75155,or Lexus 228-60100,or whatever aftermarket they make)to replace the crossmember hitch that comes with the vehicle....it's not about the wght.of the trailer being pulled(I know it's 5000lbs or under)it's about the tongue wght.(and they do not sell air bags{firestone,or air lift}for the 2wd 2011 4runner...I called,and both said no)anyone please chime in THX

 

[lezavw90]

I have stayed out of this thread because putting a heavier duty hitch on the 4Runner (than stock) is like me putting a 2" ball and receiver on my bicycle: It might fit but the vehicle is not designed for the load.

As far as our current hitch flexing when pulling a load: It could, and as bad as that sounds it's not. Very few components don't flex somewhat during loading. Almost all are designed to flex a little. Now, using paint flecks to gauge flex is not a preferred measurement as far as I know. You open up a whole new can of worms there. Homeyclaus and Antman cited the standard. I have towed with mine and while I have not been at the limit it did just fine at about 4K. I DID NOT buy this vehicle to use to tow frequently. If I wanted to do that there are much better vehicles out there built for that type of service such as any 3/4 ton diesel pickup. Would a frame mounted hitch be better? Probably but not necessary.

Lastly, ANYTHING can bend if enough force is used.

Off topic, but I thought is was interesting. I bought a new set of mountain bike tires last week for an upcoming race and they actually had a load rating on them. I worked in the industry for 7 years and been an avid cyclist for the last 20 and have nev seen that till

I don't plan on ever towing the limit of what the 4runner is specced. If the dealer says my hitch is defective then we'll go from there.
I'm also not trying to upgrade my truck so I can tow 8000lbs with it, I do believe the frame mounted hitch is overall a better design, if I can upgrade to something better at minimal cost for piece of mind while I tow my my tailer with my family on board then I'd like to do that.

Every modification can be argued that people don't need it but they still go out and do it. If this thread was asking about a lift to drive to the mall people would be all over how awesome the truck would look, is it needed? Lol,

 

[lezavw90]

I see that I opened up a can of worms:wow2:All I want to know,for the 2011 toyota 4 runner,can I,or has someone installed,a frame mounted hitch(either
Drawtite 75155,or Lexus 228-60100,or whatever aftermarket they make)to replace the crossmember hitch that comes with the vehicle....it's not about the wght.of the trailer being pulled(I know it's 5000lbs or under)it's about the tongue wght.(and they do not sell air bags{firestone,or air lift}for the 2wd 2011 4runner...I called,and both said no)anyone please chime in THX

I guess we have to wait for Alamorunner to come back online.

Is this what you are looking for?http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/60809-4runner-air-springs.html

 

[Jtraskell]

I see that I opened up a can of worms:wow2:All I want to know,for the 2011 Toyota 4 runner,can I,or has someone installed,a frame mounted hitch(either
Drawtite 75155,or Lexus 228-60100,or whatever aftermarket they make)to replace the crossmember hitch that comes with the vehicle....it's not about the wght.of the trailer being pulled(I know it's 5000lbs or under)it's about the tongue wght.(and they do not sell air bags{firestone,or air lift}for the 2wd 2011 4runner...I called,and both said no)anyone please chime in THX

drnick, not sure you have a tongue weight concern, or a sag concern.
I do not think (and this is where I may be completely wrong), that changing the hitch receiver to a frame mount unit, will stop the sag. Yes, locating the receiver closer to the Axel MAY reduce some of the sag, but unless you get stronger springs, air bags, air shocks etc, if you place 500 lbs of extra weight towards the back, the rear of our vehicles will sag.

I recently got 7 80 lbs bags of pre-mix cement, placed 4 of them right over the rear Axel and 3 just behind them towards the rear hatch, but not close to the actual door. Had a pretty fair amount of sag. I know, 560 pounds is a bit more then 500lbs tongue weight, but again, most was right over the rear axle and I still got a bunch of sag. Would I have gotten more sag if I put 500lbs right out there by the rear bumper, I am sure I would. How much? Who knows.

I guess my point is, if your trailer is 5k or less, and the tongue weight is less then 500lbs, I would not worry about getting a frame mount hitch, because you might get a little less sag. I am not sure that is going to work.....just sayin. Be safe.

 

[Antman]

drnick, not sure you have a tongue weight concern, or a sag concern.
I do not think (and this is where I may be completely wrong), that changing the hitch receiver to a frame mount unit, will stop the sag. Yes, locating the receiver closer to the Axel MAY reduce some of the sag, but unless you get stronger springs, air bags, air shocks etc, if you place 500 lbs of extra weight towards the back, the rear of our vehicles will sag.

I recently got 7 80 lbs bags of pre-mix cement, placed 4 of them right over the rear Axel and 3 just behind them towards the rear hatch, but not close to the actual door. Had a pretty fair amount of sag. I know, 560 pounds is a bit more then 500lbs tongue weight, but again, most was right over the rear axle and I still got a bunch of sag. Would I have gotten more sag if I put 500lbs right out there by the rear bumper, I am sure I would. How much? Who knows.

I guess my point is, if your trailer is 5k or less, and the tongue weight is less then 500lbs, I would not worry about getting a frame mount hitch, because you might get a little less sag. I am not sure that is going to work.....just sayin. Be safe.

Thing is, with a WDH setup, you can effectively "twist the sag out".(That's pretty funny, right?)

With the torsion bars on the WDH adjusted, you transfer the weight towards the front of the vehicle. Our stock setups are mounted on one crossmember which supposedly will twist more than a proper WDH setup which also connects to the framerails farther up towards the front of the vehicle.(it's a run-on sentence- so get over it )

So, IMO, yes- with the hitch, and the WDH setup for the trailer- it definitely will eliminate the sag.

 

[Jtraskell]

Hey, drnick never talked about a WDH. You brought in another previously undiscussed variable. To that end, I am not sure this "twist" thing is correct. Unless of course you are saying 'leverage" is the same a twist....then OK. I had a WDH set up in years past, it was not connected to the frame. It was connected to the hitch. (Which probably was connected to the frame). It worked well. But, I still had some sag, if for no other reason, the weight of the the adjustable stinger and sway bars and WDH!. But the sag was not enough to be a control problem.

As a side note, I am not an English major, so there is nothing to get over. But from what little I know, you were still discussing the same idea or subject matter, thus not a run on sentence IMHO.

 

[OrangeTexan]

I have stayed out of this thread because putting a heavier duty hitch on the 4Runner (than stock) is like me putting a 2" ball and receiver on my bicycle: It might fit but the vehicle is not designed for the load.

As far as our current hitch flexing when pulling a load: It could, and as bad as that sounds it's not. Very few components don't flex somewhat during loading. Almost all are designed to flex a little. Now, using paint flecks to gauge flex is not a preferred measurement as far as I know. You open up a whole new can of worms there. Homeyclaus and Antman cited the standard. I have towed with mine and while I have not been at the limit it did just fine at about 4K. I DID NOT buy this vehicle to use to tow frequently. If I wanted to do that there are much better vehicles out there built for that type of service such as any 3/4 ton diesel pickup. Would a frame mounted hitch be better? Probably but not necessary.

Lastly, ANYTHING can bend if enough force is used.

Just as some points for discusion and some things to think about (and not necessarily directed at 1-E):

It is true that most materials are designed to allow some flex, otherwise they would just shatter for the lack of yielding elastically. However, crossmembers are not designed to take a torsional force in that axis. Evidenced by the rarity of vehicles meant for any significant towing with the hitch attached to the crossmember. Attaching the hitch to the crossmember means there was some compromise reached that could not be met with a proper hitch attached to the frame rails, which would apply the torsional force along the correct load bearing axis. Additionally, the fact that some have observed paint flaking off after towing suggests higher than intended forces in high stress areas. The biggest problem this presents is now you have accelerated corrosion in the most critical area of the cross member. Now its service life and reliability have changed. Observations by some of permanent deflection of the hitch is another indicator of a significant problem. Some have sited this SAE standard, but as most commercial standards go, they are only as rigorous as the industry feels is financially beneficial. What I mean to say is, this standard is not being forced on the industry, but rather accepted as a way to show the customer they are somehow improving the requirements. It is a step in the right direction, but in order to provide some sort of comprehensive test, there should be much more, including a durability requirement, some repeatability and reproducability elements (rather than run through the test sequence just once), and some consideration for testing aged frames, to name a few items. My point is, dont go blindly using this standard as a reason to accept the T4R's hitch as adequate, especially in the light of the issues some have noted here.

I agree that the T4R should not be thought of as a primary towing vehicle. But if we see some people presenting issues with the hitch we shouldnt throw a SAE standard at them and tell them to cover their eyes and forget about it. A WDH will only compound the OEM hitch problem, since it will apply many many multiples of the force applied by just a normal hitch under a 500lb tongue load. I would advise against a WDH in this configuration. The Lexus hitch would aleviate the issue, but I'd also go so far as to say that I would not expect it to safely increase the towing capacity above the OEM rating.

 

[Titanpat57]

there's a new sheriff in town.....:cowboy:








Great points and excellent presentation, thank you for sharing to both you and 1engineer

 

[Dewfang]

No offense to anyone but To hell and be damned I'm doing the WDH anyway! It works good with no problems and rides like a champ with all four feet firmly on the ground,

I'll be towing over 4000lbs 250 miles one way next week. The load drops the rear end of my 4runner 1/2" in the rear and 1/4" in the front, I haven't seen anything written by Toyota not to

 

[lezavw90]

There's something wrong with my hitch then, looking at Dewfang's picture. I have the wdh set my hitch is definetly angeld up alot where yours is flat.

 

[drnick]

Geeeze!!!!

All I want to know,for 2011 gen 5 toyota 4 runner;is there/can I,install an OEM
Lexus or toyota part,or aftermarket from drawtite,or wherever..FRAME MOUNTED HITCH to replace the bumper mounted hitch:shrug:my issue is not wght. of trailer...but tongue wght...there are no aftermarket suspension goodies for the rear(like air lift/firestone,monroe load levelers,etc)for 2wd
5tn gen 4runner's,other then Timbren's,which I did install:biggrin2:it seems there are frame mounted hitches for "09"'s(aftermarket and OEM)...my big question ;is the chassis on the 5gen toyota,the same as on the older models,
and is there anyone on this forum that installed a frame hitch on a 5th gen 4runner

 

[Antman]

All I want to know,for 2011 gen 5 toyota 4 runner;is there/can I,install an OEM
Lexus or toyota part,or aftermarket from drawtite,or wherever..FRAME MOUNTED HITCH to replace the bumper mounted hitch:shrug:my issue is not wght. of trailer...but tongue wght...there are no aftermarket suspension goodies for the rear(like air lift/firestone,monroe load levelers,etc)for 2wd
5tn gen 4runner's,other then Timbren's,which I did install:biggrin2:it seems there are frame mounted hitches for "09"'s(aftermarket and OEM)...my big question ;is the chassis on the 5gen toyota,the same as on the older models,
and is there anyone on this forum that installed a frame hitch on a 5th gen 4runner

I see no reason whatsoever that an Airlift 1000 kit wouldn't work on a 2wd 4Runner. What's the reasoning behind that? Seems like that would solve your problems...