Frame Rust / 2005 T4R

[ChuckJ]

About 2 years ago I started noticing some bad rust on my frame rails and front crossmember. A few spots had rusted all the way thru. I wire brushed and scraped those areas and sprayed with "rust reformer" primer and topcoated with black. I should not that I have taken meticulous care of this truck since I bought it new and have only 130k miles on it. It has lived in North Carolina it's whole life, minimal road salts and maybe 6 or 7 trips on the beach each year, after which I thoroughly flushed the undercarriage with fresh water. This week when I had a couple of new tires mounted my mechanic showed me a few places I had missed, and much to my dismay told me the issue is now close to being a safety problem. As I'm driving cross country at the end of the month this was not good news. It appears there are numerous complaints files on the NTSB website about the problem. Toyota did recall various model year Tacomas and other trucks but not the 4Runner. The dealer of course wants nothing to do with it, it's out of warranty and there is no official recall. Attached are a few photos, there are other areas besides these, both front and rear.

Is anyone else having these problems and what, if anything have you done about it ? Thanks.

 

[Bossman]

Some threads about this all-too-common issue:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/211349-4th-gen-frame-rust.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/180929-frame-rust.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/153032-pictures-my-rusty-frame.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/231861-disappearing-front-cross-member-due-rust.html

 

[TechWrench]

Welcome to the 'world' of Toyota frame rust. About 4 years ago, I spent over $700.00 on replacing the front cross member on my 1st '03, and I just spent over $800.00 on frame rust repair on my current '03. And this was just a 'temp' repair. Enough to get the vehicle to pass the NYS safety inspection. The frame guy said I may get only 1-2 years out of this repair, before I have to replace the vehicle.

From what I have read, I wouldn't expect Toyota to step up and accept any responsibility for this issue. There is too much potential liability rolling around out there for them to go down that road.

 

[ChuckJ]

Yeah I know anything to do with the frame means big bucks. Looking at some of the other photos I saw in other threads perhaps I should consider myself lucky, there were a number much worse than mine. As much as I love the truck, and you can literally eat off the engine I've kept it so clean, it may be time to sell or trade this in the fall and move up a few years. Have they solved this problem with 4Runners newer than about 2015 do you know ? I'd most likely look for a good used one if I get rid of mine. Other than this problem the truck has been the best I've ever owned.

 

[TechWrench]

Yeah I know anything to do with the frame means big bucks. Looking at some of the other photos I saw in other threads perhaps I should consider myself lucky, there were a number much worse than mine. As much as I love the truck, and you can literally eat off the engine I've kept it so clean, it may be time to sell or trade this in the fall and move up a few years. Have they solved this problem with 4Runners newer than about 2015 do you know ? I'd most likely look for a good used one if I get rid of mine. Other than this problem the truck has been the best I've ever owned.

I don't know if the rust issue has gotten any better with the 5tgh gens. I haven't done much looking around in the 5th gen forum, since I have a 4th gen.

 

[Bossman]

Corrosion-related problems eventually drove me to trading in my 03 Limited on a new-to-me 2011 Limited two years ago.

I bought my 03 Limited back in 2008 - I was the second owner and it had about 117,000 km on it.

Disabled the Height Control (Rear Air Suspension) system at 131,000 km - one of the sensors (located in a position that left them vulnerable) had failed due to corrosion; too costly to repair. Mechanic fabricated a manual fill system.

X-REAS suspension system failure (leak in the line behind the centre control absorber on the driver's side caused by corrosion) - too expensive to repair X-REAS; installed OEM Toyota (SR5) struts/shocks at 138,000 km.

The worry of what else might go wrong, including the weakening of the frame, due to corrosion led me to trade it in with 161,000 km on it.

After doing my research, and having been a previous Rust Check customer on my old Celicas, I decided to go with Corrosion Free rustproofing on my 2011 4Runner (that I bought used in May 2016).

https://corrosionfree.com/

I had the underbody "U" package that treats the frame, gas tank, fuel and brake lines, parking brake cables, and wheel wells.

It is a no-drip, eco-friendly application.

 

[Inv4drZm]

How many people have had rust kill their frame after doing preventative maintenance?

Just put a thick coat of spray paint on and spray a can of fluid film underneath it once or twice a year.

It's not something people notice or watch for until it's too late. Is that Toyota's fault?

 

[TechWrench]

How many people have had rust kill their frame after doing preventative maintenance?

Just put a thick coat of spray paint on and spray a can of fluid film underneath it once or twice a year.

It's not something people notice or watch for until it's too late. Is that Toyota's fault?

I can agree that regular maintenance attention to the underbody is a good thing, but I would have to disagree about Toyota's (IMHO) part in the problem. I have had many different vehicles over my life, and this is the 1st one to exhibit this degree of frame rust failure. The forum is full of those, especially in the Northern regions, complaining about frame rust issues. My wife has an '02 BMW X5. It does have its issues, but frame rust is not one of them. I have had many vehicles that had body panel rust problems, but not frame rust to the point of failure. This is an all too common problem with Japanese vehicles, especially in the early years of production. I worked for a Honda dealer, as a line mechanic (we weren't called Technicians back then ;-), and in the late 70's and early 80's Honda had serious frame rust issues. I remember, what we fondly called the "Rust Buster" recall campaign. I must have replaced several hundred front frame members on the original 1200 CVCC models. I have to give Honda credit, because as bad as those early cars were, they learned their lesson, and they improved their build quality.

As for the Toyota's, frames, just cleaning and spraying the outside of the frame rails isn't enough to prevent rust failure. From what I have seen, most of the frames tend to rust from the inside surfaces of the frames. The inside surfaces of the box frames are not easy to get access to, and keep clean. Normal road spray tends to wash road debris up into these areas, and they are not easy to clean, unless you have access to a lift, and the time to do it. There are certain areas, inside these frames that collect dirt and sand, which will remain there and act as a collection point for moisture to sit. Frame maintenance, as you and some others talk about, shouldn't have to be a required part of normal vehicle maintenance, just to keep these frames from dissolving from rust. IMHO, Toyota dropped the ball, in the name of cost control, and did not design and manufacture a frame strong enough to withstand the demands put on it. If you intend to market and sell vehicles to all regions of the country/world, you should do your research and build them to withstand northern winters, as well as southern beaches.

IMHO, I strongly feel that Toyota shares the larger part of the blame for this issue.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I can agree that regular maintenance attention to the underbody is a good thing, but I would have to disagree about Toyota's (IMHO) part in the problem. I have had many different vehicles over my life, and this is the 1st one to exhibit this degree of frame rust failure. The forum is full of those, especially in the Northern regions, complaining about frame rust issues. My wife has an '02 BMW X5. It does have its issues, but frame rust is not one of them. I have had many vehicles that had body panel rust problems, but not frame rust to the point of failure. This is an all too common problem with Japanese vehicles, especially in the early years of production. I worked for a Honda dealer, as a line mechanic (we weren't called Technicians back then ;-), and in the late 70's and early 80's Honda had serious frame rust issues. I remember, what we fondly called the "Rust Buster" recall campaign. I must have replaced several hundred front frame members on the original 1200 CVCC models. I have to give Honda credit, because as bad as those early cars were, they learned their lesson, and they improved their build quality.

As for the Toyota's, frames, just cleaning and spraying the outside of the frame rails isn't enough to prevent rust failure. From what I have seen, most of the frames tend to rust from the inside surfaces of the frames. The inside surfaces of the box frames are not easy to get access to, and keep clean. Normal road spray tends to wash road debris up into these areas, and they are not easy to clean, unless you have access to a lift, and the time to do it. There are certain areas, inside these frames that collect dirt and sand, which will remain there and act as a collection point for moisture to sit. Frame maintenance, as you and some others talk about, shouldn't have to be a required part of normal vehicle maintenance, just to keep these frames from dissolving from rust. IMHO, Toyota dropped the ball, in the name of cost control, and did not design and manufacture a frame strong enough to withstand the demands put on it. If you intend to market and sell vehicles to all regions of the country/world, you should do your research and build them to withstand northern winters, as well as southern beaches.

IMHO, I strongly feel that Toyota shares the larger part of the blame for this issue.

Most of the rust pictures I have seen, everything has a layer of rust. That's not quite the case on this thread's pictures but that would refute the rusting from the inside out claim. Actually the muffler and skid plates look perfectly fine but I haven't found that to be the case in most of these types of threads.

Like I mentioned if there is rust on control arms, skid plates, axle housings, towing accessories, and bolts it would lead me to believe it could have been easily prevented by exterior coatings.

This comes from my minimal experience of my bare frame getting surface rust after 1 winter in Kansas, and the next winter not a spec of rust since I took 5 minutes to spray 1/2 can of fluid film.

 

[gookies]

That is crazy, I live in Michigan and my 03' doesn't even have holes in the frame. No rust prevention coating either until recently after finding out about fluid film.

 

[Terminator03]

I can agree that regular maintenance attention to the underbody is a good thing, but I would have to disagree about Toyota's (IMHO) part in the problem. I have had many different vehicles over my life, and this is the 1st one to exhibit this degree of frame rust failure. The forum is full of those, especially in the Northern regions, complaining about frame rust issues. My wife has an '02 BMW X5. It does have its issues, but frame rust is not one of them. I have had many vehicles that had body panel rust problems, but not frame rust to the point of failure. This is an all too common problem with Japanese vehicles, especially in the early years of production. I worked for a Honda dealer, as a line mechanic (we weren't called Technicians back then ;-), and in the late 70's and early 80's Honda had serious frame rust issues. I remember, what we fondly called the "Rust Buster" recall campaign. I must have replaced several hundred front frame members on the original 1200 CVCC models. I have to give Honda credit, because as bad as those early cars were, they learned their lesson, and they improved their build quality.

As for the Toyota's, frames, just cleaning and spraying the outside of the frame rails isn't enough to prevent rust failure. From what I have seen, most of the frames tend to rust from the inside surfaces of the frames. The inside surfaces of the box frames are not easy to get access to, and keep clean. Normal road spray tends to wash road debris up into these areas, and they are not easy to clean, unless you have access to a lift, and the time to do it. There are certain areas, inside these frames that collect dirt and sand, which will remain there and act as a collection point for moisture to sit. Frame maintenance, as you and some others talk about, shouldn't have to be a required part of normal vehicle maintenance, just to keep these frames from dissolving from rust. IMHO, Toyota dropped the ball, in the name of cost control, and did not design and manufacture a frame strong enough to withstand the demands put on it. If you intend to market and sell vehicles to all regions of the country/world, you should do your research and build them to withstand northern winters, as well as southern beaches.

IMHO, I strongly feel that Toyota shares the larger part of the blame for this issue.

Very well written and explained! I was going to type something very similar, so I’m glad I read more posts before writing! Mine is nowhere near as bad as the op’s, but I do have some spots that are on top of the inner fender in the engine bay that are bubbling and have surface rust that I want to sandblast, prime and paint before they rust through. To your point, that area was factory primed and painted, AND is not in direct salt spray like the undercarriage, so in theory shouldn’t have rusted! That tells me that the rust had to develop in the metal UNDER the paint, so no amount of PM would have prevented it, same as the frames. I also have some small holes that I need to cut out and weld in some plates on the tops of the frame rails toward the back of the front wheel wells. I noticed those when I was making new rubber, inner splash shields due to the originals being missing when I bought the truck. I plan to sandblast and coat everything I can access this summer, but as you pointed out, there are plenty of areas where sand, salt, etc. can collect that can’t be accessed to even coat, let alone remove the rust. I do believe the reason a lot of foreign vehicles rusted was/is the heavy use of recycled metals, which could have inherent rust in them during manufacturing, so even if they are coated, the rust still comes from inside as soon as there is the tiniest exposure to oxygen. Rust is very much like cancer...

I also agree that crawling underneath and coating the frame once or twice a year is NOT something the average owner will, or should have to do! The frame should last the life of the car, and even on older Ford’s and Chevy’s that had huge body rot issues, the frames didn’t rot through in most cases, at least not as quickly and as prolifically as the Tacomas and 4Runners!

 

[TechWrench]

Most of the rust pictures I have seen, everything has a layer of rust. That's not quite the case on this thread's pictures but that would refute the rusting from the inside out claim. Actually the muffler and skid plates look perfectly fine but I haven't found that to be the case in most of these types of threads.

Like I mentioned if there is rust on control arms, skid plates, axle housings, towing accessories, and bolts it would lead me to believe it could have been easily prevented by exterior coatings.

This comes from my minimal experience of my bare frame getting surface rust after 1 winter in Kansas, and the next winter not a spec of rust since I took 5 minutes to spray 1/2 can of fluid film.

If you look closely at the OP's pics, much of the rust damage occurred at weld joints in the frame, and if you look at the edges of some of the rust holes, you can see that the outer edges of the holes indicate the rust damage started from the inside and worked its way out to the surface. I have owned, and seen many vehicles with surface rust on frame, differential, and other suspension components. Many of these vehicles had 10, 15, or 20 years of this surface rust, without any significant complete rust-thru problems. Sure, everyone would like to see a pristine, rust free painted surface on their frame and suspension components, but unless you live in the south west, it isn't likely to happen. Surface rust, in of itself isn't a major problem, as long as it doesn't eat its way all the way through the metal. As you mention, it is very possible that the steel used in these frames is, in part, made from reclaimed metal, and the steel may be rusting from the inside out. As I recall, in the 70's, Plymouth/Dodge had a big problem with fenders rusting away, from the inside out, on several model cars. It, as I recall, was caused by inferior metal used in the body parts manufacturing process.

 

[bluej79]

Looking for advice (can’t start a new thread - newbie).

I just got a ‘05 T4R Sport v8 for towing a small camper. Didn’t have the frame inspected before the deal was done. There is significant rust damage where the trailer hitch assembly is attached to the frame. The support for the radiator is also rusted on its way out.

The primary use for this guy was towing! Brought it to a good frame/welding shop and the guy told me do not tow anything until it’s fixed (that was obvious to me). They want about $1,000 to plate and fix the rear frame and the support.

The car is otherwise fine - 73,000 miles. Not sure it’s worth investing the $ in it, if this will be an endless battle. Should have done my homework - did not expect this. Would also need the timing belt done, so now I’m looking at about $2500 in repairs/maintenance. Might be better to just resell it? TIA.

 

[AuSeeker]

Looking for advice (can’t start a new thread - newbie).

I just got a ‘05 T4R Sport v8 for towing a small camper. Didn’t have the frame inspected before the deal was done. There is significant rust damage where the trailer hitch assembly is attached to the frame. The support for the radiator is also rusted on its way out.

The primary use for this guy was towing! Brought it to a good frame/welding shop and the guy told me do not tow anything until it’s fixed (that was obvious to me). They want about $1,000 to plate and fix the rear frame and the support.

The car is otherwise fine - 73,000 miles. Not sure it’s worth investing the $ in it, if this will be an endless battle. Should have done my homework - did not expect this. Would also need the timing belt done, so now I’m looking at about $2500 in repairs/maintenance. Might be better to just resell it? TIA.

Without knowing the entire extent of the frame rust it's hard to really give you a good answer, also depends on how much you paid for it, if the rust is only what you stated here and you got a real good deal on it, I would say fix it.

The cost of the timing belt shouldn't be a determining factor in this since it's a normal maintenance factor and you still have a bit of miles left before it really needs to be done at or around 90,000 miles, so you have most likely another year or more depending oh how much you drive it, some have gone much longer but I wouldn't advise not waiting much pass the recommended mileage since Toyota also advises a certain time period on the belt replacement which I don't recall how long that is but I'm sure 14 years may be well past that time frame.

That all being said the seller most likely knew the rust was an issue so if you paid a premium price they came out smelling like a rose and you not doing the proper research now have to deal with the issue, if you decide to sell I would bite the bullet and disclose the rust to any buyer and take the lost, but that's for you to decide.

 

[Gatafly]

Looking for advice (can’t start a new thread - newbie).

I just got a ‘05 T4R Sport v8 for towing a small camper. Didn’t have the frame inspected before the deal was done. There is significant rust damage where the trailer hitch assembly is attached to the frame. The support for the radiator is also rusted on its way out.

The primary use for this guy was towing! Brought it to a good frame/welding shop and the guy told me do not tow anything until it’s fixed (that was obvious to me). They want about $1,000 to plate and fix the rear frame and the support.

The car is otherwise fine - 73,000 miles. Not sure it’s worth investing the $ in it, if this will be an endless battle. Should have done my homework - did not expect this. Would also need the timing belt done, so now I’m looking at about $2500 in repairs/maintenance. Might be better to just resell it? TIA.

4 Runner 2003-2009 4th Gen Archives - Page 2 of 2 - autorust.com

There are several places online to get the front piece also. With those low miles I say fix it. I get mine back from the shop today where I had a Safe-T-Cap put on the left rear frame section where the rear control arm attaches and also replacing the cross piece where the skid plate and tranny coolant lines attach. It will cost me $1500 and I think it is worth it. Mine is an '04 with 225k miles, but runs like new and the tranny is perfect. If it lasts 8 months, which i guarantee it will, it will be worth it because that is less than a car payment. You will probably lose a lot more than that on resale unless you find another person like yourself that does not look it over enough.

 

[bluej79]

4 Runner 2003-2009 4th Gen Archives - Page 2 of 2 - autorust.com

There are several places online to get the front piece also. With those low miles I say fix it. I get mine back from the shop today where I had a Safe-T-Cap put on the left rear frame section where the rear control arm attaches and also replacing the cross piece where the skid plate and tranny coolant lines attach. It will cost me $1500 and I think it is worth it. Mine is an '04 with 225k miles, but runs like new and the tranny is perfect. If it lasts 8 months, which i guarantee it will, it will be worth it because that is less than a car payment. You will probably lose a lot more than that on resale unless you find another person like yourself that does not look it over enough.

Interesting - the Saf T Cap is cool. Do you think that’s better than a frame shop plating it on their own?

 

[bluej79]

I'm just on the fence about total cost of repair, etc. Understand things like the timing belt are normal maintenance items, it's not cheap either. The only reason I got this was for towing. I'm sure it's fine for someone who doesn't care about that. This is what makes me nervous -

 

[Gatafly]

Interesting - the Saf T Cap is cool. Do you think that’s better than a frame shop plating it on their own?

It certainly will look better, but it might even cost less because the amount of labor for fabricating the sheet steel. I got mine back last night and am very happy with it.

 

[Jdevtac]

Looks similar to how my 2004 looked.

Had a SafeTCap put on my rear control arm mount also, due to a perforation akin to yours.

My rear diff wasn’t quite as bad. Was mostly just flaming rust on the front side, and on the back of the pumpkin. I wire wheeled the shit out of it and painted. Could probably use new mounting studs and ideally a whole new 3rd housing but that’s not in the cards now.

The ass end of my frame is real chewed up. I removed the rear bumper and went to town on chipping off the flaking rust and large chunks of metal that were hanging on by a thread. Gave me full access to the frame rail though, so I was able to vacuum it out real good and then coated it with Eastwood Internal frame spray. I coated most of the rear crossmember though in POR15 and topcoated with duplicolor. The rear crossmember was surprisingly solid while the rear frame rails where it was attached were in sorry ass shape.

You should also inspect your spare tire hoist. Mine had just enough life left for me to lower the spare then remove the hoist. I replaced it with the new Toyota part# that uses a chain instead of a cable.

The whole frame after touch up painting an wire wheeling is now coated in CorrosionX.

I still need to have another safetcap placed on the middle of the passenger side frame for peace of mind, but I’m holding out for a moment and see where this class action 4runner frame lawsuit and NHTSA investigation go. Not holding my breath though. A new frame would however be nice.

 

[sumday]

just found some holes in mine. president moron isnt helping by shutting the government down, vacant, interim or incompetent officials