Frame Welds Rusting Already

[Chieftain]

I have run into surface rust in the past with my 1990 Toyota pick up and my 10 year old Jeep Wrangler. I have had luck hitting the rusty spots with a wire brush, then a couple coats of Rustoleum rusty metal primer, followed by a few coats of a rustoleum black top coat. Good spring project after enduring the long winter salty roads. That does suck. You wouldn't think after only 3 months it would do that.

 

[sn_85]

I am looking at buying a '14 TE, but this thread has me concerned. Are there preventative measures I can take? Some sort of undercoating I can have done when I buy it?

There are 2,833 posts in the 5th Gen owners thread since 2009 and there are only a handful of complaints in the 40 posts in this thread. I'll let you decide whether or not this sounds like a serious issue. I'm not saying there aren't problems and that people aren't having issues but if this was some widespread issue you think it would have somehow shown up a lot sooner.

 

[Jeremy556]

I am looking at buying a '14 TE, but this thread has me concerned. Are there preventative measures I can take? Some sort of undercoating I can have done when I buy it?

Do they salt the roads in Kentucky?

If so, get a carwash that has an underbody rinse every few weeks in the winter and you'll be fine.

 

[Langzaiguy]

Yeah, we salt the roads in KY. I've had/have Toyota trucks that seem to hold up just fine against rust. My father has an '01 Tacoma that has seen problems, though. Still, are there any preventable measures like undercoatings that I can take advantage of while the vehicle is brand new?

 

[gm4life]

I am looking at buying a '14 TE, but this thread has me concerned. Are there preventative measures I can take? Some sort of undercoating I can have done when I buy it?

I am going to try and help you because the last thing I want you to do is worry about buying a GREAT truck. (This is coming from a die-hard GM fan BTW!) Don't let this stupid thread worry you one bit!

Look at how many 4Runner's that are 10 plus years old are on the road today. I regularly see 3rd generation models in Iowa where we have harsh winters and plenty of salt on the roads during them. These 10-15 year old 4Runners for the most part look great! I have seen a 2004-2007 GMC Sierra Crew Cab SLT (nice truck with big GM 20 inch accessory chrome wheels) and a frame that looked like hell. It was flame orange/red and looked like it had seen better days. (This is not uncommon if you don't take care of your vehicle!) I have also seen trucks twice that old in Iowa that look great. It all depends on one person and that is YOU!

BOF or uni-body vehicles rust. It is a fact of life. You can undercoat them or rust proof them - they will still rust. I have undercoated some and others I have opted not too. It really doesn't make that big of a difference as long as you take care of your vehicle! Driving your cars through the car wash every few weeks during the winter and putting a coat of wax on your car every season (Fall, Winter, Spring and Summer) will make all the difference. Seriously. The 4Runner is no different - don't take care of it and it will rust more than it would if you take care of it. If you follow my simple advice the frame will outlast nearly everything on the truck.

Just for example: I had several hard weeks of winter for the last half of November and much of December in Iowa with my 2013 SR5. I have been able to keep it off the road for a couple weeks over the holidays and took it through a touch free car wash. I then waxed/detailed it and washed my the under-body as best I could in my garage. It still looked great up under it. With proper care and time devoted to washing it every few weeks (or as weather allows because we all know it can be well below freezing from time to time) throughout the winter months you will be fine.

The biggest difference I have noticed with my vehicles is that every single year I take my cars out in the spring and spend a half hour washing out my undercarriages on my cars. That one cleaning alone in March or April after all the snow makes all difference. This is the reason you can a have a steak dinner on the floorboards of my 2005 Bonneville SLE. My dealer can't get over how great that car looks on the under-body - this isn't because it is rocket science or I am genius it is because I take the time and care.

Go get your new T4R! Stop worrying about threads talking about small amounts of "surface" rust in welds from the factory already! Go get your truck follow my simple advice and ENJOY it!:car:

 

[gm4life]

Yeah, we salt the roads in KY. I've had/have Toyota trucks that seem to hold up just fine against rust. My father has an '01 Tacoma that has seen problems, though. Still, are there any preventable measures like undercoatings that I can take advantage of while the vehicle is brand new?

Regarding undercoating...

This is a good one. You see right now I have two vehicles undercoated (one of which was rust proofed) and two that weren't.

My 2005 Bonneville SLE was rustproofed and undercoated within a month of me bringing her home. The reason I did the undercoating was the wheel wells were mostly showing the paint color (Cranberry Red) and not undercoating/sound proofing. I had the car rust proofed (they drill holes in the doors and spray black stuff) because the car has lower body plastic cladding and I didn't want stuff getting stuck between the metal of the door and plastic cladding. If you have seen a 2004-2005 Bonneville GXP or 2005 SLE you know exactly what I am talking about. This has worked great so far and helped avoid the typically GM painting bubbling on the back side edge of the doors on the bottom. GM cars real often start rusting up behind the door because people forget to wax/clean behind them and then the rust spreads around the lower edge of the door to the front side of the door. The 4Runner along with other Toyota products have a small piece of rubbery stuff painted over to avoid this on the back side of the doors.

My 2012 Impala LTZ was just undercoated because I had no plastic body cladding to deal with but did have wheel wells with white paint in them - drove me nuts. The undercoating took care of that.

I decided not to undercoat my 2007 Torrent FWD because the wheel wells had lots of protection with soundproofing/undercoating in them. I also didn't have to worry about rust proofing. Same thing applied to my 4Runner plus I figured I could very easily wash under it because of the high right height. So cleaning my frame and floorboards off shouldn't be a problem.

I have heard both sides of the rust proofing argument and I have seen cars that look great with and without it. It certainly won't hurt it but due to its high ride height and well protected wheel wells I wouldn't worry about it on a 4Runner. Follow my simple tips from my prior post and ENJOY your new T4R!

 

[Orion*42]

The frame has not failed to the extent that it has bent, or like a ship broken it's back. There are sections along the bottom of the frame where I can push my fingers through the painted surface and it is rotted through on both sides so it has lost the strength of the primary frame c channel as well as the box. That is part of the problem with the box frame, you cant get inside it to clean it. Otherwise the vehicle looks to be in great shape, which is why this is so painful. I think a lot of folks are blissfully driving around until the frame fails, I have seen plenty of posts where that has happened. In my case my clutch was due to be replaced, and I was looking at replacing it myself. I looked at the shape that the frame was in to put it up on the lift, and there is a good chance it would not survive the experience. Since then I have been looking for a donor vehicle with a frame or some other alternative similar to what the Land Rover Defender folks have to go through, but so far have not found anything. I have been watching salvage auctions for months now, and a lot of the 3rd gens just get totaled if the body work costs too much where they may also have frame issues as well, but fall off of the radar because of body repair costs. The Suburban is still in decent shape but is starting to see some rust on the body and frame. I treated it with Fluid Film this fall which is a temporary undercoating made of lanolin and seems to be working well so far. It has a C frame which is a lot easier to clean and treat.

 

[Curt Sauve]

The frame has not failed to the extent that it has bent, or like a ship broken it's back. There are sections along the bottom of the frame where I can push my fingers through the painted surface and it is rotted through on both sides so it has lost the strength of the primary frame c channel as well as the box. That is part of the problem with the box frame, you cant get inside it to clean it. Otherwise the vehicle looks to be in great shape, which is why this is so painful. I think a lot of folks are blissfully driving around until the frame fails, I have seen plenty of posts where that has happened. In my case my clutch was due to be replaced, and I was looking at replacing it myself. I looked at the shape that the frame was in to put it up on the lift, and there is a good chance it would not survive the experience. Since then I have been looking for a donor vehicle with a frame or some other alternative similar to what the Land Rover Defender folks have to go through, but so far have not found anything. I have been watching salvage auctions for months now, and a lot of the 3rd gens just get totaled if the body work costs too much where they may also have frame issues as well, but fall off of the radar because of body repair costs. The Suburban is still in decent shape but is starting to see some rust on the body and frame. I treated it with Fluid Film this fall which is a temporary undercoating made of lanolin and seems to be working well so far. It has a C frame which is a lot easier to clean and treat.

Have there been a lot of frame failures on the T4R? Has there been a recall like the Taco frame recall?

 

[Orc]

Imagine getting your new John Deere 9R series ($400,000) with rust on it? way more rust that those specs on your Toyota.

Nothing is perfect and that rust is not going to change performance or even the looks of the truck. Metal rusts, the truck has a finite life get the most of it!

 

[gm4life]

Have there been a lot of frame failures on the T4R? Has there been a recall like the Taco frame recall?

No. None that I am aware of. The T4R has not had the issues the Tacoma has had. Toyota has not recalled any 4Runners because of frame issues. Enjoy your new truck sir.

 

[gm4life]

Imagine getting your new John Deere 9R series ($400,000) with rust on it? way more rust that those specs on your Toyota.

Nothing is perfect and that rust is not going to change performance or even the looks of the truck. Metal rusts, the truck has a finite life get the most of it!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Langzaiguy]

Wow, excellent responses--especially gm4life's thought out answer. I suppose it just comes down to proper cleaning and maintenance of the vehicle.

I've just been extra cautious after my father's experience with his Tacoma. Toyota tried to put some sort of rust treatment on the frame but it didn't work. I think he ended up getting a small sum of money from Toyota.

As Orc said, metal deteriorates. I suppose I'll take care of the vehicle and make the most of it!

 

[Prestige Worldwide]

I recently purchased a 2013 4R TE and after reading this thread I became a little concerned, as I'm sure a few others did. I subsequently emailed Toyota Customer Care with my concerns about rust issues and I just wanted to share the response that I received from Toyota with all of you:


Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

Congratulations on your recent purchase of the 2013 4Runner! We hope your Toyota will surpass your expectations in every way.

We apologize for any concern you may have been caused by what you have seen from on-line forums, because from 2005 on, Toyota incorporated a brand new composite material with better impact strength than steel. It's also rust resistant and much more dent resistant than steel.

The coating processes to the frame was modified to address rust issues.

Each Toyota goes through an extensive rust inhibitor process, which starts with rust-resistant steels coated with a zinc and iron alloy panels. If a small scratch occurs, it helps protect the metal from rusting until it can be fully repaired.

Then the body is fully dipped in a phosphate bath to make sure that even the most inaccessible areas resist rust. A special wax sealer is applied to the corners of crevices of the hood, doors, and trunk lid to help protect rust-prone areas.

Finally, anti-chip paint is applied to the front edge of the hood, lower door panels, and rocker panels to help protect these areas from stone chips and other minor debris thrown from the tires. Lower door moldings also help protect the lower doors.

We have included exterior care information from the Owner's Manual, which is more preventative, below.

Per the Owner's Manual:

To prevent paint deterioration and corrosion on the body and components (aluminum wheels etc.)

Wash the vehicle immediately in the following cases:
• After driving near the sea coast
• After driving on salted roads
• If coal tar or tree sap is present on the paint surface
• If dead insects, insect droppings or bird droppings are present on the
paint surface
• After driving in an area contaminated with soot, oily smoke, mine dust,
iron powder or chemical substances
• If the vehicle becomes heavily soiled with dust or mud
• If liquids such as benzene and gasoline are spilled on the paint surface
If the paint is chipped or scratched, have it repaired immediately.
To prevent the wheels from corroding, remove any dirt and store in a place
with low humidity when storing the wheels

Thank you for choosing Toyota for your driving needs. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,

Darren R.
Toyota Customer Experience


I am happy that Toyota responded to my inquiry promptly. It doesn't totally put my concerns to rest after learning that some post-2005 models experienced some rust issues, but I will be sure to do what some others have posted in order to do the best I can to prevent any problems with my truck. I hope this information helps some others too. Thanks guys!

 

[gm4life]

Wow, excellent responses--especially gm4life's thought out answer. I suppose it just comes down to proper cleaning and maintenance of the vehicle.

I've just been extra cautious after my father's experience with his Tacoma. Toyota tried to put some sort of rust treatment on the frame but it didn't work. I think he ended up getting a small sum of money from Toyota.

As Orc said, metal deteriorates. I suppose I'll take care of the vehicle and make the most of it!

Glad I could be of help. I just want to make sure you don't worry too much - take care of your truck and you will be fine.

 

[gm4life]

I recently purchased a 2013 4R TE and after reading this thread I became a little concerned, as I'm sure a few others did. I subsequently emailed Toyota Customer Care with my concerns about rust issues and I just wanted to share the response that I received from Toyota with all of you:


Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

Congratulations on your recent purchase of the 2013 4Runner! We hope your Toyota will surpass your expectations in every way.

We apologize for any concern you may have been caused by what you have seen from on-line forums, because from 2005 on, Toyota incorporated a brand new composite material with better impact strength than steel. It's also rust resistant and much more dent resistant than steel.

The coating processes to the frame was modified to address rust issues.

Each Toyota goes through an extensive rust inhibitor process, which starts with rust-resistant steels coated with a zinc and iron alloy panels. If a small scratch occurs, it helps protect the metal from rusting until it can be fully repaired.

Then the body is fully dipped in a phosphate bath to make sure that even the most inaccessible areas resist rust. A special wax sealer is applied to the corners of crevices of the hood, doors, and trunk lid to help protect rust-prone areas.

Finally, anti-chip paint is applied to the front edge of the hood, lower door panels, and rocker panels to help protect these areas from stone chips and other minor debris thrown from the tires. Lower door moldings also help protect the lower doors.

We have included exterior care information from the Owner's Manual, which is more preventative, below.

Per the Owner's Manual:

To prevent paint deterioration and corrosion on the body and components (aluminum wheels etc.)

Wash the vehicle immediately in the following cases:
• After driving near the sea coast
• After driving on salted roads
• If coal tar or tree sap is present on the paint surface
• If dead insects, insect droppings or bird droppings are present on the
paint surface
• After driving in an area contaminated with soot, oily smoke, mine dust,
iron powder or chemical substances
• If the vehicle becomes heavily soiled with dust or mud
• If liquids such as benzene and gasoline are spilled on the paint surface
If the paint is chipped or scratched, have it repaired immediately.
To prevent the wheels from corroding, remove any dirt and store in a place
with low humidity when storing the wheels

Thank you for choosing Toyota for your driving needs. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,

Darren R.
Toyota Customer Experience


I am happy that Toyota responded to my inquiry promptly. It doesn't totally put my concerns to rest after learning that some post-2005 models experienced some rust issues, but I will be sure to do what some others have posted in order to do the best I can to prevent any problems with my truck. I hope this information helps some others too. Thanks guys!

Thanks for posting this good information. I did notice one key word... Please notice the word I put in bold before the cleaning information. Obviously you can't clean or take your truck to a wash when it is below zero but as time/weather allows - so every couple weeks or so is fine. Take it through the wash and give it a couple under-body washes a winter and good one after spring has started and you will be just fine.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

I recently purchased a 2013 4R TE and after reading this thread I became a little concerned, as I'm sure a few others did. I subsequently emailed Toyota Customer Care with my concerns about rust issues and I just wanted to share the response that I received from Toyota with all of you:


Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

Congratulations on your recent purchase of the 2013 4Runner! We hope your Toyota will surpass your expectations in every way.

We apologize for any concern you may have been caused by what you have seen from on-line forums, because from 2005 on, Toyota incorporated a brand new composite material with better impact strength than steel. It's also rust resistant and much more dent resistant than steel.

The coating processes to the frame was modified to address rust issues.

Each Toyota goes through an extensive rust inhibitor process, which starts with rust-resistant steels coated with a zinc and iron alloy panels. If a small scratch occurs, it helps protect the metal from rusting until it can be fully repaired.

Then the body is fully dipped in a phosphate bath to make sure that even the most inaccessible areas resist rust. A special wax sealer is applied to the corners of crevices of the hood, doors, and trunk lid to help protect rust-prone areas.

Finally, anti-chip paint is applied to the front edge of the hood, lower door panels, and rocker panels to help protect these areas from stone chips and other minor debris thrown from the tires. Lower door moldings also help protect the lower doors.

We have included exterior care information from the Owner's Manual, which is more preventative, below.

Per the Owner's Manual:

To prevent paint deterioration and corrosion on the body and components (aluminum wheels etc.)

Wash the vehicle immediately in the following cases:
• After driving near the sea coast
• After driving on salted roads
• If coal tar or tree sap is present on the paint surface
• If dead insects, insect droppings or bird droppings are present on the
paint surface
• After driving in an area contaminated with soot, oily smoke, mine dust,
iron powder or chemical substances
• If the vehicle becomes heavily soiled with dust or mud
• If liquids such as benzene and gasoline are spilled on the paint surface
If the paint is chipped or scratched, have it repaired immediately.
To prevent the wheels from corroding, remove any dirt and store in a place
with low humidity when storing the wheels

Thank you for choosing Toyota for your driving needs. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,

Darren R.
Toyota Customer Experience


I am happy that Toyota responded to my inquiry promptly. It doesn't totally put my concerns to rest after learning that some post-2005 models experienced some rust issues, but I will be sure to do what some others have posted in order to do the best I can to prevent any problems with my truck. I hope this information helps some others too. Thanks guys!

The only piece of that giant response from toyota that attempted to address the rusty frame question was:

"The coating processes to the frame was modified to address rust issues."

The rest of the stuff was about the body, which isn't as much as a concern. Really, where are the details of the improvements in their FRAME coating? Because from what I have seen, things haven't improved since 2005.

Also if

Each Toyota goes through an extensive rust inhibitor process

then our frames wouldn't come pre-rusted from the factory....

 

[Orc]

Toyota was late to the galvanized steel game. The only car maker that fully dips all sheet metal is VW. Little things like this and some big things are why VW will be the top auto maker very soon.

 

[Jeremy556]

Toyota was late to the galvanized steel game. The only car maker that fully dips all sheet metal is VW. Little things like this and some big things are why VW will be the top auto maker very soon.

:rofl:
Those VWs will be pristinely rust free for decades in the junkyard.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Toyota was late to the galvanized steel game. The only car maker that fully dips all sheet metal is VW. Little things like this and some big things are why VW will be the top auto maker very soon.

I owned a 2011 and 2012 VWs, and put about 10k miles on each. While they were amazing cars, and those Germans put alot of attention to detail into them, they each had multiple issues in those 10k miles, that no new car should have. In a year and a half I was at the dealer for warranty work 6 times, and only 4 of the times did the problems get fixed. Unless VAG gets better with their quality control process, they will never be a top automaker. It doesn't help that most of the production of their US bound vehicles is now in Mexico. I do wounder how the Amarok's frames handle rust though.

*I do like my trouble free "Dinosaur" though, even if it is a bit rusty for no good reason!

 

[Orc]

Yes not all VW are perfect but my 2010 German made GTi runs great after 60k. No issues with it.

BMW is making cars in south Africa so mexico isn't too bad.

Opinions aside VW has all body panels galvanized and will be the largest auto maker in the world soon.