Front driver lean

jonb2

Member
Hi all,

2007 4runner 2wd, stock coils and Bilstein 5100 front and rear. Have typical driver side lean. I corrected the rear for the most part with a single Daystar spacer installed on driver side--that got rid of most of the rear lean. However still have about 1/2" front driver lean.

I was going to purchase and install Toytech 1/4" spacer front driver side coil to help front lean.

1. Will this work to help and does it affect or lift the passenger side at all (I know this happened with the rear Daystar install) ?

2. Will I need a wheel alignment after spacer install ?

3. Is this even possible as I read somewhere that you should not install a spacer on top of the Bilstein which I currently have set at 1.75" front lift ?

thanks for any advice !
 
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I'll be the one to say that you might have bigger issues if you are putting spacers in one corner at a time to correct the problem.
 
Not really. There are numerous posts about driver lean, both front and back, being corrected with appropriately sized spacers. I just could not find answers to my specific questions in those posts.

thanks.
 
The rake condition that is well known, which is where the front is lower than the rear, is different than a left to right lean. What you are describing is not rake, therefore I stand by my statement.
 
The .25 top hat spacer can work, but you will have to more than likely have to remove your coil over setup to put longer 3 bolts in the top hat so when the spacer sits on top you can bolt it back in. Look at how muck threads are showing on them now while installed and see if there is enough threads to add the spacer and bolt down.

Don't worry, guys with adjustable coil overs (crank style) adjust them at different heights to correct this problem.
 
Must be a California thing.

:laugh:


Springs dictate your ride height so unless your mounts are bent or welded in the wrong spot, adding spacers is concealing an issue of some kind.

I have installed several suspension packages over the years and not once was there a need to space particular corners in order to level ride height.

Coilovers are different in that you are not offsetting the location of the shock, something which will otherwise run the risk of affecting ride quality since one shock is, for example, 1/2" lower than the other. It's kinda hackish, IMO, and not a method I'd recommend to anyone.

I fully realize I have not answered your questions. I am hoping my comments will fall under the "thanks for any advice" criteria.
 
The rake condition that is well known, which is where the front is lower than the rear, is different than a left to right lean. What you are describing is not rake, therefore I stand by my statement.

A quick google search should show that left to right, ride height variances are something that 4Runner/FJ's run into. (aside from those who like/want rake)

For example, for those that have OME suspensions, OME sells "trim packers" to help correct this lean for both the front and rear of vehicles.

https://wheelersoffroad.com/product/old-man-emu-205552/old-man-emu-150pr10-rear-trim-packer/

https://wheelersoffroad.com/product/old-man-emu/old-man-emu-95pf5-trim-packer/
 
Don't forget the torsion bar. Look at your end links and check for wear. Chevy trucks (at least the last one I had 2004) have different types of torsion bars and you can correct a couple of inch difference side to side and even across the back.
 
I'll be the one to say that you might have bigger issues if you are putting spacers in one corner at a time to correct the problem.

Actually, the driver side "lean" is a common phenomena with the 4th gen Runners. Possibly due to the fuel tank being located on the driver side of the vehicle in addition to wear from driver weight... who knows? That being said, the "lean" seems to be more noticeable when a 4th gen is lifted beyond OEM height. And the OP is correct: most of us indeed correct said "lean" with a Daystar (or similar) rear spacer installed above the driver side rear coil. Upon installing my Toytec Ultimate lift on my '05, I too had to install a spacer on the rear driver side assembly, to level my rig out (which to my delight, leveled it out perfectly). Now, being that the OP has already installed a spacer in the rear, he should consider installing newer front coil springs as it sounds like his coils may be sagging (possibly a set of used Tacoma coils if price is an issue?).
 
I have yet to notice a driver's side lean on the 4th gens I've seen over the years, including my own...a vehicle that went from stock height to OME 3" lift.

Leveling ride height front to back is one thing but to compensate left to right by changing the position of one shock with spacers, or installing longer bolts to further compensate for more spacers, suggests there is an issue with the springs and/or location of the mounts. I'll go out on a limb and suggest a torn bushing too. Regardless, the issue requires more investigation.

And so because this method of spacing has been used for 10 years by 4Runner drivers, it is more readily accepted than what I'm stating here. I more than get it however, like it or not, changing the shock height by what sounds like inches using unequal amounts of spacing at the corners is tantamount to taping over the Check Engine Light.

It's great that the vehicle looks level but now you are dealing with shocks that differ in height...something that has its own implications.
 
I have yet to notice a driver's side lean on the 4th gens I've seen over the years, including my own...a vehicle that went from stock height to OME 3" lift.

Leveling ride height front to back is one thing but to compensate left to right by changing the position of one shock with spacers, or installing longer bolts to further compensate for more spacers, suggests there is an issue with the springs and/or location of the mounts. I'll go out on a limb and suggest a torn bushing too. Regardless, the issue requires more investigation.

And so because this method of spacing has been used for 10 years by 4Runner drivers, it is more readily accepted than what I'm stating here. I more than get it however, like it or not, changing the shock height by what sounds like inches using unequal amounts of spacing at the corners is tantamount to taping over the Check Engine Light.

It's great that the vehicle looks level but now you are dealing with shocks that differ in height...something that has its own implications.

Not sure what kind of lifts you've been installing, but you've obviously been ridiculously lucky if you've never had the driver side lean. I had to install a Daystar 1.5" to compensate for the driver side lean after installing my lift. MANY people on this forum have had to do it also, it's very common. Maybe it's more common with certain lift kits than others, but it's common enough that there are tons of posts about people doing it.
 
I just raised my bilsteins over the weekend and I measured them when I finished and the driver side was about 1/2 Lower then the passenger side. I wished I had measured then before I took them apart so I could have went up higher on the drivers said.
 
I have yet to notice a driver's side lean on the 4th gens I've seen over the years, including my own...a vehicle that went from stock height to OME 3" lift.

Leveling ride height front to back is one thing but to compensate left to right by changing the position of one shock with spacers, or installing longer bolts to further compensate for more spacers, suggests there is an issue with the springs and/or location of the mounts. I'll go out on a limb and suggest a torn bushing too. Regardless, the issue requires more investigation.

And so because this method of spacing has been used for 10 years by 4Runner drivers, it is more readily accepted than what I'm stating here. I more than get it however, like it or not, changing the shock height by what sounds like inches using unequal amounts of spacing at the corners is tantamount to taping over the Check Engine Light.

It's great that the vehicle looks level but now you are dealing with shocks that differ in height...something that has its own implications.

Well, no sense in arguing with you about it. I can only say that there are no shortage of members of T4R.org with 4th gens that have had this same issue and resolved it with the rear spacer.
 
Wow thanks again for all the responses and I think my original question was pretty simple and went off track a little.

I was going to purchase and install Toytech 1/4" spacer front driver side coil to help front lean.

1. Will this work to help and does it affect or lift the front passenger side at all (I know this happened with the rear Daystar install) ?

2. Will I need a wheel alignment after spacer install ?

3. Is this even possible as I read somewhere that you should not install a spacer on top of the Bilstein which I currently have set at 1.75" front lift ?

thanks and I will also check out options for possible new front coils too.
 
I have yet to notice a driver's side lean on the 4th gens I've seen over the years, including my own...a vehicle that went from stock height to OME 3" lift.

Leveling ride height front to back is one thing but to compensate left to right by changing the position of one shock with spacers, or installing longer bolts to further compensate for more spacers, suggests there is an issue with the springs and/or location of the mounts. I'll go out on a limb and suggest a torn bushing too. Regardless, the issue requires more investigation.

And so because this method of spacing has been used for 10 years by 4Runner drivers, it is more readily accepted than what I'm stating here. I more than get it however, like it or not, changing the shock height by what sounds like inches using unequal amounts of spacing at the corners is tantamount to taping over the Check Engine Light.

It's great that the vehicle looks level but now you are dealing with shocks that differ in height...something that has its own implications.

You don't have the lean, good for you! Lots of us do, and many people have invested a significant amount of time investigating the causes and potential solutions. I can assure you that I do not have an issue with my springs, mounts, or torn bushings as you suggest. And I can also assure you that the handful of other individuals I know with lifts on their 4Runners do not have those issues. But we all experience the driver's side lean.

The most likely cause is that the 4Runner is a right-hand drive vehicle that was converted to left-hand drive for use in the US and other markets. In right-hand drive markets (Japan, Australia, etc.), the gas tank, battery, front diff, etc. are on the opposite side of the driver resulting in more even weight distribution. Not so in the US.

It appears as though the stock Toyota springs attempt to compensate for the problem, as the driver's side springs are slightly longer than the passenger side (hence the different colored markings). Unfortunately, aftermarket springs are not usually supplied in this configuration. Therefore, the driver's side rear needs either a longer spring or a spacer to compensate for the lean, as described above. Some 4Runners require some adjustment in the front as well.

Short of speaking directly with the Toyota engineers, there is not much more that any of us can do beyond what has already been done. I don't think it is fair of you to compare this with taping over the check engine light, as you have self-admittedly done zero research on the subject while many others have. Plenty of threads on the issue if you would like to educate yourself on the issue and propose a solution.
 
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Wow thanks again for all the responses and I think my original question was pretty simple and went off track a little.

I was going to purchase and install Toytech 1/4" spacer front driver side coil to help front lean.

1. Will this work to help and does it affect or lift the front passenger side at all (I know this happened with the rear Daystar install) ?

2. Will I need a wheel alignment after spacer install ?

3. Is this even possible as I read somewhere that you should not install a spacer on top of the Bilstein which I currently have set at 1.75" front lift ?

thanks and I will also check out options for possible new front coils too.

1. It will raise the front driver, but also may raise front passenger a little bit as with the rear spacer.

2. Yes, it would be a good idea to get an alignment any time you change suspension geometry.

3. It is not advised to install spacers in addition to the Bilsteins because the Bilsteins essentially have preload spacers built in (adjustable spring perch). That being said, I don't think it would be a problem to install the trim-packer to fine-tune your adjustment. This is similar to someone with coilovers cranking the driver's side up a little bit to compensate for the lean.
 
I have it done to mine, 1/4" trim packer on top of my 5100's cranked all the way up. No issues ever and it helped to accomplish exactly what you are looking for.
 
Wow thanks again for all the responses and I think my original question was pretty simple and went off track a little.

I was going to purchase and install Toytech 1/4" spacer front driver side coil to help front lean.

1. Will this work to help and does it affect or lift the front passenger side at all (I know this happened with the rear Daystar install) ?

2. Will I need a wheel alignment after spacer install ?

3. Is this even possible as I read somewhere that you should not install a spacer on top of the Bilstein which I currently have set at 1.75" front lift ?



thanks and I will also check out options for possible new front coils too.

? I have for you, how much a lean did you have before your rear daystar was added.

I had a 3/2.5 leveling kit in prior before I got mod crazy and added some serious weight to my ride and had no lean. After I started the weight consumption, I changed to OME 3"/5100 at 0 on the front and later 3" overland springs in the rear. I acquired the lean, 1" front and rear drivers. I cut 1 of my spacers for the rear to a daystar size and it pushed the driver up even and put more vehicle weight on the passenger front to almost evening out the front to the point you need a tape to tell there is a fraction of a lean.

1/4" top hat spacer will net you that 1/2" you need. With your front being heavier than the rear, I don't think it will transfer any to the rear.

Edit... I did do a 1/2" top hat spacer on mine at first and it did level the front, side by side, but I acquired a bind on my driver CV axle at full drop. Decided to remove and tried my above method.
 
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You don't have the lean, good for you! Lots of us do, and many people have invested a significant amount of time investigating the causes and potential solutions. I can assure you that I do not have an issue with my springs, mounts, or torn bushings as you suggest. And I can also assure you that the handful of other individuals I know with lifts on their 4Runners do not have those issues. But we all experience the driver's side lean.

The most likely cause is that the 4Runner is a right-hand drive vehicle that was converted to left-hand drive for use in the US and other markets. In right-hand drive markets (Japan, Australia, etc.), the gas tank, battery, front diff, etc. are on the opposite side of the driver resulting in more even weight distribution. Not so in the US.

It appears as though the stock Toyota springs attempt to compensate for the problem, as the driver's side springs are slightly longer than the passenger side (hence the different colored markings). Unfortunately, aftermarket springs are not usually supplied in this configuration. Therefore, the driver's side rear needs either a longer spring or a spacer to compensate for the lean, as described above. Some 4Runners require some adjustment in the front as well.

Short of speaking directly with the Toyota engineers, there is not much more that any of us can do beyond what has already been done. I don't think it is fair of you to compare this with taping over the check engine light, as you have self-admittedly done zero research on the subject while many others have. Plenty of threads on the issue if you would like to educate yourself on the issue and propose a solution.
I have proposed solutions. My "zero research" and statements posted thus far are based off basic observations in traffic and direct mechanical experience. I have yet to see this lean that appears to occur everywhere except the Northeast. There are three 4th gens in my neighborhood....all absent of lean. All of them are raked, with the exception of mine, and I think we all agree on rake so we're done there.

I take forum posts with a huge grain of salt. Once people start to latch on to an idea, it runs away more often than not. I couldn't begin to tell you the variety of motorcycles out there have a "bad second gear design from the factory" or how many "faulty AWD systems" exist.

It's not like I'm posting for my own amusement. I've made observations that contradict how common this topic seems to be and posted my thoughts as well as suggestions. Again, I get it. We've gotten very comfortable with spacing shocks over the last 10years and anything that goes against that mindset MUST be wrong.

Fair or not, my experience causes me to have my doubts that 160lbs justified to one side of a vehicle that is sprung for 5000lbs or more is going to result in a permanent and significant sag of 3/4" or more. There is something else going on there.



Not sure what kind of lifts you've been installing, but you've obviously been ridiculously lucky if you've never had the driver side lean. I had to install a Daystar 1.5" to compensate for the driver side lean after installing my lift. MANY people on this forum have had to do it also, it's very common. Maybe it's more common with certain lift kits than others, but it's common enough that there are tons of posts about people doing it.
This is the first I've seen on this topic in the ~4 years I've been here. The suspensions I've installed have been across numerous makes and models, both lifts and drops, spanning across several years. Zero of my installs have resulted in ride height issues.
Chalk it up as "ridiculously lucky" I suppose because me telling the forum "I might be good at this" won't go over well.
:heh:



I'll repeat something that was obviously missed the first time:
Adjusting ride height on coilovers is a completely different ball game than spacing the location of a shock. The two adjustments cannot reasonably be compared since coilovers are desgined for changing ride height without moving the position of the shock.



In closing, I won't be responding to anything else in this thread since a few seem to be upset. Please know my only intent was to offer some perspective on why spacing shocks isn't the greatest idea and why it should be avoided.

Carry on....
 
I have lean. Can't see it though. I had to measure and it leans a little over half inch. Had my buddy measure his 4Runner. Guess what? It leans. Now it bugs him... haha.
 

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