Front-end clunk/pop while turning, sway bar bushings are new... What next?

[dbsoundman]

OK, so I just replaced my front sway bar bushings because I was hearing a clunk or pop type sound when I made a turn. Typically, it happened when I was making a faster turn; not crazy fast, but definitely not "nice and easy, driving your grandma" slow either.

The problem is, the noise still happens, even now that the bushings have been replaced. So what do I do next? Is it maybe something in the steering? Just need some suggestions on likely suspects at this point. It doesn't seem to be getting worse fortunately, but it still concerns me...

Thanks!

-Dan

 

[A.Wilson013]

Could be so many things, Dan.

How are the bushings on your upper and lower control arms? Bushings on the struts?

Good luck on your search, I imagine that's very annoying.

 

[the great him]

steering rack bushings, upper and or lower ball joints, control arm bushings, spindles making contact with the coils... gonna have to get in there and give things a good look over, jack it up and start trying to manipulate parts...

 

[dbsoundman]

Thanks guys. I should have mentioned, the lower ball joints have been replaced, and I got new struts installed at the same time. Knowing that, does it possibly shorten the list a bit?

EDIT: some more detail...I have NO shimmying issues while braking, and my steering is nice and tight (at least as far as I can tell, it certainly hasn't gotten any worse since I got this 4runner in November of 2012). Based on what I've read so far, that may rule out the lower control arm and steering rack bushings...

 

[dbsoundman]

steering rack bushings, upper and or lower ball joints, control arm bushings, spindles making contact with the coils... gonna have to get in there and give things a good look over, jack it up and start trying to manipulate parts...

Can you explain what spindles might be making contact with the coils? It's possible that the coils shifted with the new struts, which could cause some contact. Not sure that's the case since my noise can happen when turning either way, and in varying turning radii, but you never know!

 

[dbsoundman]

OK guys, still need help! I jacked up the front end today and found that the clunk does not happen when the front wheels are not on the ground. This makes me think that steering is good, am I right?

I snapped some pictures of what I believe to be the upper and lower control arm bushings, and once I get them uploaded later hopefully they might tell us something.

 

[awthorn]

Is the clunking while turning at full lock or close to it? You recently replace the LBJs right? Try slapping some MP grease on the bump stops. I had a similar issue that freaked me out right after my lift and new LBJs. Greasing the bump stops fixed the issue

Oh and for reference here is a post about it with a pick of where to grease. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/125918-clunk-noise-turning-left-right-2008-toyota-4runner.html#post1189488

 

[4'running'26]

I had the same exact thing and it was the sway bar links themselves. The right side was very loose.

 

[dbsoundman]

Hmm...well, first the noise only happens at about mid-turning radius (basically, just under the amount of turn you need to make a typical left or right turn), so I don't think it's the LBJs.

I didn't notice anything funny about the sway bar end links, but how exactly could I tell if they were loose? Without the sway bar connected they do flop around, but they didn't seem uncharacteristically loose...but I have no idea what they're supposed to be like either.

While we're at it, here are some pictures I snapped while looking at the front end today.

Shot of one of the lower control arm bushings:
2014-06-02 18.58.58 by dbsound06, on Flickr

Upper control arm bushing:
2014-06-02 18.59.22 by dbsound06, on Flickr

I don't know what I'm looking at here, but the LCA bushing did look like it was sort of dried out, and was maybe too small, like it had shrunk? What do you guys think?

 

[1985taylor1925]

The swar bar link basically looks like a little ball joint in that rubber boot. It is certainly possible that that ball joint has play in it. But you should be able to feel that by disconnecting them and messing with them a bit.

You really cant tell if the control arm bushings are good just by looking at them. Ive never changed mine, but I know other members have been able to diagnose play in them. If you lift the front end you should be able to see movement in the bushings if you use something like a pipe to create leverage and torque the control arms back and forth. Ive done this with mine and never found any play in the bushings. If you cant see any play in them then theyre probably fine.

Finally, I had the exact same issue that you have some time ago, and it was the steering rack. It might feel perfectly fine driving down the road, but when it gets to a certain point around a turn it will knock. In this case the knock should be coming from the driver side. This is due to play in the rack, and they are notorious for slop/play/knocking/etc on 3rd gens. You can diagnose this by lifting the front end, sliding the boots off so you can see the inner tie rods, and then turning the wheel back and forth while watching the inner tie rod on the driver side. I could literally see the point at which mine was knocking while turning the wheel

P.S.
Say hi to my uncle Jason. He lives in Co Springs

 

[dbsoundman]

The swar bar link basically looks like a little ball joint in that rubber boot. It is certainly possible that that ball joint has play in it. But you should be able to feel that by disconnecting them and messing with them a bit.

You really cant tell if the control arm bushings are good just by looking at them. Ive never changed mine, but I know other members have been able to diagnose play in them. If you lift the front end you should be able to see movement in the bushings if you use something like a pipe to create leverage and torque the control arms back and forth. Ive done this with mine and never found any play in the bushings. If you cant see any play in them then theyre probably fine.

Finally, I had the exact same issue that you have some time ago, and it was the steering rack. It might feel perfectly fine driving down the road, but when it gets to a certain point around a turn it will knock. In this case the knock should be coming from the driver side. This is due to play in the rack, and they are notorious for slop/play/knocking/etc on 3rd gens. You can diagnose this by lifting the front end, sliding the boots off so you can see the inner tie rods, and then turning the wheel back and forth while watching the inner tie rod on the driver side. I could literally see the point at which mine was knocking while turning the wheel

P.S.
Say hi to my uncle Jason. He lives in Co Springs

That's some excellent info, thanks! When you had your steering rack issue, did you also occasionally get a knock when driving straight and you hit a bump, especially at lower speeds? That's the only thing I'm noticing that you did not mention -- otherwise, I definitely feel it more on the driver's side, it generally happens more noticeably at lower speeds (could be that I just can't hear it at higher speeds though), and it happens at a certain point in my turning radius generally.

Thanks!

 

[1985taylor1925]

That's some excellent info, thanks! When you had your steering rack issue, did you also occasionally get a knock when driving straight and you hit a bump, especially at lower speeds? That's the only thing I'm noticing that you did not mention -- otherwise, I definitely feel it more on the driver's side, it generally happens more noticeably at lower speeds (could be that I just can't hear it at higher speeds though), and it happens at a certain point in my turning radius generally.

Thanks!

Yep, I have the exact same thing. When I pull into my driveway at around 5 mph, the driver side tire hits a little hole in the concrete and theres the clunk. Happens almost every time. Happens all the time on rough roads as well, and its at slow speeds that you notice it. I have a brand new rack from Safari LTD sitting in the room next to me right now. Just waiting to get the time to install it.

 

[jakknz]

I had a popping in the front end as well when turning into driveway and while turning on the road. It was worse when raining. Mine turned out to be a bad inner tie rod AND loose control arm bolts causing the cam hardware to shift when making hard turns.

 

[Brian757]

A few things to look into for those affected:
1) Replace Steering rack (Inner tie rod/axle play)
2) The slip joint on steering shaft is coming loose (Time to tack)

 

[1985taylor1925]

A few things to look into for those affected:
1) Replace Steering rack (Inner tie rod/axle play)
2) The slip joint on steering shaft is coming loose (Time to tack)

Yeah although I don't think the second one is all that common. A few years ago when I was going through all my front end issues that's one of the things I did. I had it welded regardless, but I couldn't produce any play in the slip joint while diagnosing. But its certainly possibly that op may have that issue. Op, I tracked all my front end issues in this thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/71231-jitters-bumps.html

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Steering rack guide possibly?

 

[gstai]

Yep, I have the exact same thing. When I pull into my driveway at around 5 mph, the driver side tire hits a little hole in the concrete and theres the clunk. Happens almost every time. Happens all the time on rough roads as well, and its at slow speeds that you notice it. I have a brand new rack from Safari LTD sitting in the room next to me right now. Just waiting to get the time to install it.

I have the same problem right now. I've replaced the upper and lower ball joints, both cv axles, the driver side control arm. I know its not the sway bar because I've removed the entire assembly and the clunk continues.
I am interested in knowing more about Safari LTD. Are they a cheaper alternative to the many Toyota part sites? Is it better quality? What did you pay for yours? I have had this clunk for months now and its driving me crazy lol

 

[1985taylor1925]

Steering rack guide possibly?

Most likely yes. But Ive done that fix three times. I will only mask the problem for a while. It seems that once the rack is worn out the only real solution is to replace it with a new one. There is a rebuild kit, or at least there used to be, for a around 100. But Ive had two remanufactured racks and they were both junk. So I don't see much point in rebuilding.

I have the same problem right now. I've replaced the upper and lower ball joints, both cv axles, the driver side control arm. I know its not the sway bar because I've removed the entire assembly and the clunk continues.
I am interested in knowing more about Safari LTD. Are they a cheaper alternative to the many Toyota part sites? Is it better quality? What did you pay for yours? I have had this clunk for months now and its driving me crazy lol

I paid 450 for mine with a military discount. I think they originally quoted me like 530, and then brought that down to 490 after I said I would keep looking elsewhere, and then brought it down again with the discount. I believe they offer some sort of discount for forum members because of the number of referrals they get from this site. They claim that the the internal bushings are better in their rack. The oem rack comes with essentially hard plastic bushings. I believe the Safari rack comes with brass bushings. But they don't make the rack. The service guy mentioned to me they get them from a company. I would like to know who the company is

 

[dbsoundman]

Most likely yes. But Ive done that fix three times. I will only mask the problem for a while. It seems that once the rack is worn out the only real solution is to replace it with a new one. There is a rebuild kit, or at least there used to be, for a around 100. But Ive had two remanufactured racks and they were both junk. So I don't see much point in rebuilding.



I paid 450 for mine with a military discount. I think they originally quoted me like 530, and then brought that down to 490 after I said I would keep looking elsewhere, and then brought it down again with the discount. I believe they offer some sort of discount for forum members because of the number of referrals they get from this site. They claim that the the internal bushings are better in their rack. The oem rack comes with essentially hard plastic bushings. I believe the Safari rack comes with brass bushings. But they don't make the rack. The service guy mentioned to me they get them from a company. I would like to know who the company is

So what's the labor time/effort like to replace the rack? Is it about the same amount of work as just replacing the bushings? Not sure I can swing the cost of the whole rack plus labor right now but I'd definitely entertain it if it's a better option.

 

[1985taylor1925]

So what's the labor time/effort like to replace the rack? Is it about the same amount of work as just replacing the bushings? Not sure I can swing the cost of the whole rack plus labor right now but I'd definitely entertain it if it's a better option.

A new rack is certainly the best option long term. I would give yourself a day to do the rack and bushings if you do it yourself. For the time being though, the rack guide repair would probably be your best fix. About 75 in parts, and very simple. It specifically addresses the play on the driver side, which is the issue with these racks 95% of the time. Heres the link

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/70884-how-replace-steering-rack-guide-pictures.html#post604234

First you will want to diagnose the problem to be sure you don't spend 75 for nothing