Front End Suspension
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hossmaster
New member
what do you mean? Does it just bounce left to right like a worn out shock or does it wobble with the steering? Check the sway bar bushings to see if they are broken in their housing.
Same Side-to-Side Motion
Hello,
I have the same side-to-side motion/"jerkiness" issue with 2001 4Runner SR5 (4WD) on highway or any speed. Especially when wheels are at different road surface levels (e.g. waves in road, potholes, speed bumps). I can shake "side-to-side" the car (more than other 4Runners), just by pushing on the top of the driver's side door.
Mechanics and parts dealers suggest it probably isn't the coil springs (65K miles and 9 years old). Although threads here indicate coil springs do wear after this # of years. Another possible source are worn bushings ... I've been told to check the sway bar bushings, sway bar end links, lower arm bushings, upper arm bushings.
What do you think? Any perspective would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Regards,
Glen
Hello,
I have the same side-to-side motion/"jerkiness" issue with 2001 4Runner SR5 (4WD) on highway or any speed. Especially when wheels are at different road surface levels (e.g. waves in road, potholes, speed bumps). I can shake "side-to-side" the car (more than other 4Runners), just by pushing on the top of the driver's side door.
Mechanics and parts dealers suggest it probably isn't the coil springs (65K miles and 9 years old). Although threads here indicate coil springs do wear after this # of years. Another possible source are worn bushings ... I've been told to check the sway bar bushings, sway bar end links, lower arm bushings, upper arm bushings.
What do you think? Any perspective would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Regards,
Glen
steezemcqueen
Moderator
also check your steering rack bushings
techno
New member
Check the tie rods first. Inners and outers. Do this by lifting both front wheels off the ground and try to turn the wheels left and right by hand. Watch the tie rods while doing this. Look, feel and listen at the same time for excessive play. There should be virtually none.
Also worn steering rack bushes (like mcqueen just said) will produce similar symptoms. My 4Runner used to 'wander' left to right, wasn't jerky, but replacing the steering bushes instantly fixed that.
To me this is 90% a coil or shock absorber issue. When you 'shake' the car, it is moving up and down right? Not actually shifting left/right. Go to the rear of the vehicle and push the bumper down with your foot. Watch how the suspension responds. It should stop bouncing almost immediately. If the shocks are dead and the coils getting tired then it will often bounce around more than once.
My 99 had this horrible a few weeks ago, upon inspection it was noticed the front struts were blown, from old coils, and I live in PA with horrible roads. it was to the point, it was nearly dangerous to drive at speed on some backroads that are not much better than ATV trails. would skip laterally bad.
it would not hurt to check everything everyone else suggested above, but I would bet ya new springs and struts will tune you up. mine is like new again with springs and struts. big big difference.
it would not hurt to check everything everyone else suggested above, but I would bet ya new springs and struts will tune you up. mine is like new again with springs and struts. big big difference.
"Up and Down" Motion
Techno,
Thanks for your detailed response.
I'll check the tie rods when I can ... but the 4Runner doesn't "wander" left-to-right.
Yes, the vehicle moves up and down (from driver's side to passenger side, back and forth) ... My description isn't that vivid, but picture pushing down on the side of a small row boat and seeing the resulting "side-to-side" (watching from the front or rear) motion. Each side (drivers/passenger) of the 4Runner moves up-and-down.
I also pushed down on the rear bumper and it does rock almost two more times (two more cycles).
It actually does feel like a boat from the inside when going over uneven surfaces, as mentioned when wheels are on different surface heights.
I replaced the shocks about a year ago with Bilstein HD (that are to be paired with stock coils). The 4Runner has 65,000 miles and is almost 10 years old.
So, my gut says get new OEM coil springs ... but mechanics and parts dealers say they don't often changes these, and have suggested bushings, sway bar, or that this is normal. A mechanic verified nothing loose on the suspension components, so it could be worn bushings from upper or lower control arm, sway bar, etc.
What do you think?
Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Glen
2001 4Runner SR5 with 65,000 miles; Four Bilstein HD Shocks (just 1 year old); Stock Coil Springs; On-road only; Heavy use on problematic NY roads potholes, metal road covers, speed bumps, etc.; New Michelin Latitude Tour tires (same issue with Bridgestone H/L Alenza tires) - both excellent tires
Techno,
Thanks for your detailed response.
I'll check the tie rods when I can ... but the 4Runner doesn't "wander" left-to-right.
Yes, the vehicle moves up and down (from driver's side to passenger side, back and forth) ... My description isn't that vivid, but picture pushing down on the side of a small row boat and seeing the resulting "side-to-side" (watching from the front or rear) motion. Each side (drivers/passenger) of the 4Runner moves up-and-down.
I also pushed down on the rear bumper and it does rock almost two more times (two more cycles).
It actually does feel like a boat from the inside when going over uneven surfaces, as mentioned when wheels are on different surface heights.
I replaced the shocks about a year ago with Bilstein HD (that are to be paired with stock coils). The 4Runner has 65,000 miles and is almost 10 years old.
So, my gut says get new OEM coil springs ... but mechanics and parts dealers say they don't often changes these, and have suggested bushings, sway bar, or that this is normal. A mechanic verified nothing loose on the suspension components, so it could be worn bushings from upper or lower control arm, sway bar, etc.
What do you think?
Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Glen
2001 4Runner SR5 with 65,000 miles; Four Bilstein HD Shocks (just 1 year old); Stock Coil Springs; On-road only; Heavy use on problematic NY roads potholes, metal road covers, speed bumps, etc.; New Michelin Latitude Tour tires (same issue with Bridgestone H/L Alenza tires) - both excellent tires
brian2sun
Elite Member
Here's my thoughts...
The lack of recovery after bumps and the bounciness of your truck that you describe seems to indicate bad shocks. It's unlikely because they are so new, but Bilstein has had some quality issues lately so you never know (look for oil and dirt on the shock body - maybe it sprung a leak).
I don't even have my front sway bar on anymore, but I don't have any issues like you describe at all so I'm sure that's not the issue here. Here are some places to check and how...
When checking the tie rods, it's normal to have a little play if you jack up both tires off the ground and turn the tires by hand. There shouldn't be a lot, but there will be some play between the teeth of the rack and pinion gears. Look at your steering wheel (and the opposite tire) as you move one of the front tires back and forth - if the steering wheel and the opposite tire move a little too (maybe up to a 1/8-1/4"), that's normal. If there is slop in there, than it's most likely your inner or outer tie rods (or both).
It it always a good idea to inspect your upper and lower ball joints as these could be your problem. Look for slop in them and also make sure the rubber boots are not torn or dried out. Instead of rocking the tire side to side (like you do to check the TREs), rock the tire from top to bottom and check for play (much like checking for a bad wheel bearing). If the is any play at all you should see it in the ball joint(s). If you don't see the slop in the BJs, but there is still notceable play, then your wheel bearings are probably shot.
The rack bushings are also a possible cause like others mentioned earlier. The bushings are easy to check: With the tires on the ground, just start the truck, get on one knee, grab the steering wheel and rock it back and forth a couple inches in both directions while you have you head down under the truck looking at the rack. The rack should not move with the tires. A tiny little bit is ok, but mine doesn't move one bit with my new rack bushings. Before I replaced them, the whole rack had about .5" of play in it.
If you do end up replacing the rack bushings, I suggest doing yourself a favor and replacing everything (BJs and TREs too). You have to get it aligned after messing with any of these items so I think it's wise to just replace everything while you're in there, align it once and be done with it.
The lack of recovery after bumps and the bounciness of your truck that you describe seems to indicate bad shocks. It's unlikely because they are so new, but Bilstein has had some quality issues lately so you never know (look for oil and dirt on the shock body - maybe it sprung a leak).
I don't even have my front sway bar on anymore, but I don't have any issues like you describe at all so I'm sure that's not the issue here. Here are some places to check and how...
When checking the tie rods, it's normal to have a little play if you jack up both tires off the ground and turn the tires by hand. There shouldn't be a lot, but there will be some play between the teeth of the rack and pinion gears. Look at your steering wheel (and the opposite tire) as you move one of the front tires back and forth - if the steering wheel and the opposite tire move a little too (maybe up to a 1/8-1/4"), that's normal. If there is slop in there, than it's most likely your inner or outer tie rods (or both).
It it always a good idea to inspect your upper and lower ball joints as these could be your problem. Look for slop in them and also make sure the rubber boots are not torn or dried out. Instead of rocking the tire side to side (like you do to check the TREs), rock the tire from top to bottom and check for play (much like checking for a bad wheel bearing). If the is any play at all you should see it in the ball joint(s). If you don't see the slop in the BJs, but there is still notceable play, then your wheel bearings are probably shot.
The rack bushings are also a possible cause like others mentioned earlier. The bushings are easy to check: With the tires on the ground, just start the truck, get on one knee, grab the steering wheel and rock it back and forth a couple inches in both directions while you have you head down under the truck looking at the rack. The rack should not move with the tires. A tiny little bit is ok, but mine doesn't move one bit with my new rack bushings. Before I replaced them, the whole rack had about .5" of play in it.
If you do end up replacing the rack bushings, I suggest doing yourself a favor and replacing everything (BJs and TREs too). You have to get it aligned after messing with any of these items so I think it's wise to just replace everything while you're in there, align it once and be done with it.
Assessment: New Coils and Sway Bar Bushings
Thanks Brian2sun, techno, champ306, hossmaster, and others for your suggestions.
Brought the 4Runner to a Toyota Dealer Service to have this checked (no diagnostic fee). Extremely experienced service manager took the time to provide direct analysis (on ground and on lift) covering all the points posted here.
1. Coils are definitely "tired" and rear is sagging slightly (noticeable when side-by-side to another 4Runner with new stock coils). Indicated by residual bounce, sagging rear, and ability to squeeze the rear coils by hand.
Will also replace a number of other bushings related to this replacement just in case.
2. Sway bar bushings are "worn" - there's a slight space where the bushing doesn't touch a portion of the sway bar allowing movement of the bar
3. Tie rods are fine
4. Ball joints are fine
5. Rack bushings are fine
6. New Bilstein shocks look fine - no leaks
Plan to purchase Toyota OEM coils (front and rear), sway bar bushings (front and rear), related other bushings, from ToyotaPartsZone.com... Approximately $400 + shipping. About 20% off list from this online vendor.
Original equipment (OEM) coils seems to be recommended on this and other threads for same height needs (no lift needed) + Bilstein HD shocks. Moog, Raybestos, and Husky Springs also make OEM replacement coils (about 50% the cost of Toyota OEM).
Thanks again!
Regards,
Glen
Thanks Brian2sun, techno, champ306, hossmaster, and others for your suggestions.
Brought the 4Runner to a Toyota Dealer Service to have this checked (no diagnostic fee). Extremely experienced service manager took the time to provide direct analysis (on ground and on lift) covering all the points posted here.
1. Coils are definitely "tired" and rear is sagging slightly (noticeable when side-by-side to another 4Runner with new stock coils). Indicated by residual bounce, sagging rear, and ability to squeeze the rear coils by hand.
Will also replace a number of other bushings related to this replacement just in case.
2. Sway bar bushings are "worn" - there's a slight space where the bushing doesn't touch a portion of the sway bar allowing movement of the bar
3. Tie rods are fine
4. Ball joints are fine
5. Rack bushings are fine
6. New Bilstein shocks look fine - no leaks
Plan to purchase Toyota OEM coils (front and rear), sway bar bushings (front and rear), related other bushings, from ToyotaPartsZone.com... Approximately $400 + shipping. About 20% off list from this online vendor.
Original equipment (OEM) coils seems to be recommended on this and other threads for same height needs (no lift needed) + Bilstein HD shocks. Moog, Raybestos, and Husky Springs also make OEM replacement coils (about 50% the cost of Toyota OEM).
Thanks again!
Regards,
Glen
Coil Springs Not The Problem
I replaced the existing Toyota OEM coil springs, sway bar bushings, and end-link stabilizer bushings, and these replacements didn't resolve the issue. So, the original coil springs and the above were fine.
So, I'm back to the issue being the Bilstein BE-2450 (front) and BE-2451 (rear) shocks.
I found other postings that indicated the 1999 coil springs were a different height than the 2001 coil springs, and found they are the same part number 1996-2001 for 4WD V6 models. They are different (longer) for 2WD models.
Bilstein has offered to send me new shocks, adjusting the valving to see if that resolves the "rocking" motion (over bumps/potholes) and "floating" (on highway).
Thanks for everyones' posts and insights.
I replaced the existing Toyota OEM coil springs, sway bar bushings, and end-link stabilizer bushings, and these replacements didn't resolve the issue. So, the original coil springs and the above were fine.
So, I'm back to the issue being the Bilstein BE-2450 (front) and BE-2451 (rear) shocks.
I found other postings that indicated the 1999 coil springs were a different height than the 2001 coil springs, and found they are the same part number 1996-2001 for 4WD V6 models. They are different (longer) for 2WD models.
Bilstein has offered to send me new shocks, adjusting the valving to see if that resolves the "rocking" motion (over bumps/potholes) and "floating" (on highway).
Thanks for everyones' posts and insights.
black ripper 58
New member
What's the name of this part?
The bushing for this bigger metal part on the driver side is loose and makes a knocking sound occasionally when I turn. I also noticed that the sway bars need to be replaced.
My local O'Reilly auto parts employee said this was called a tie rod...obviously it's not.
Will I necessarily need to replace this entire part or can the bushing be replaced without too much fuss? Is the junkyard my only option?
Any links to the part would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks friends!
The bushing for this bigger metal part on the driver side is loose and makes a knocking sound occasionally when I turn. I also noticed that the sway bars need to be replaced.
My local O'Reilly auto parts employee said this was called a tie rod...obviously it's not.
Will I necessarily need to replace this entire part or can the bushing be replaced without too much fuss? Is the junkyard my only option?
Any links to the part would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks friends!
Attachments
Millerad1651
New member
Which part are you talking about? There are a lot of things located in that pic...
black ripper 58
New member
It's the lower large part that connects to the wheel. The large bolt on the far left if the one that's making the knocking sound. It is sort of a "wish-bone" shape. Thanks for your response.
sn0wrunner
New member
That would be the lower control arm. From what you described it sounds like the bushings are shot. Looking at the condition I would guess they sleeves are seized as well. Your best bet would be going directly through Toyota for replacements. You can buy bushings aftermarket, but if your sleeves are seized, OEM Toyota bushings with new sleeves already in them are probly your best bet.
Here are the Toyota part numbers. You'll want two of each.
48061-35050
48061-35040
Best price will be at Toyota of Dallas. They will ship to you. And they do need to be pressed in.
Good luck!
Here are the Toyota part numbers. You'll want two of each.
48061-35050
48061-35040
Best price will be at Toyota of Dallas. They will ship to you. And they do need to be pressed in.
Good luck!
Last edited:
black ripper 58
New member
Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. That picture represents what Illinois winters do to vehicles with the massive amount of salt they put on the roads in the Chicago area. I'm in Tennessee now so that should stop.
My vehicle also sags a bit in the back. Any recommendations for shock/suspension replacement?
My vehicle also sags a bit in the back. Any recommendations for shock/suspension replacement?
