Frustrated beyond belief...

[jdogray]

In November I bought a Used 2003 4Runner with 75,000 miles. Soon afterward it started smoking, white smoke only when I start it up. I told the dealership. They said the vehicle had "sat" for awhile and one of the seals probably dried up. Took on a trip, continued to drive it... no other problems except the smoke when starting.

So five weeks ago the dealership took it to a shop to have the seal(s) fixed. Five weeks later I get the vehicle back. Still smokes, and now check engine light is on and the VSC Track OFF light stays on, AND it overheats, because they didn't put the fan shroud on because it was cracked ---one is on order.

The code from the CEL says an O2 sensor is out --- all of sudden it's out?

Any insight would be appreciated. I'm caught between the mechanic and the dealership. thank you. :yield:

 

[DC runner]

So, the biggest issue is that I am sure you are forgetting some info; but this sounds really scamy.

White smoke on start up is usually related to a bad head gasket and those don't "dry up" from sitting around for a month or so.

They lied to you or dang close, I mean seals do dry up; but over YEARS of non-use and on older cars. Newer vehicles would need extreme temps and a LONG TIME. My personal opinion is the dealership that sold you the truck has lied to you, did not perform a fix and might have committed fraud.

So, here is what you do. You take the car to a certified Toyota shop. You tell them your symptoms and leave them to diagnose the problem. Do not MENTIONED one problem as told before, let Toyota.

Let us know what happens.

 

[Brutalguyracing]

So, the biggest issue is that I am sure you are forgetting some info; but this sounds really scamy.

White smoke on start up is usually related to a bad head gasket and those don't "dry up" from sitting around for a month or so.

They lied to you or dang close, I mean seals do dry up; but over YEARS of non-use and on older cars. Newer vehicles would need extreme temps and a LONG TIME. My personal opinion is the dealership that sold you the truck has lied to you, did not perform a fix and might have committed fraud.

So, here is what you do. You take the car to a certified Toyota shop. You tell them your symptoms and leave them to diagnose the problem. Do not MENTIONED one problem as told before, let Toyota.

Let us know what happens.

this ^^^^
or you can always have a floor mat malfunction and go through dealership window:lol:

 

[CXS]

Yep, what they said unfortunately. Sounds like they took in a trade and got taken so decided to do the same to you.

 

[Code2]

So, the biggest issue is that I am sure you are forgetting some info; but this sounds really scamy.

White smoke on start up is usually related to a bad head gasket and those don't "dry up" from sitting around for a month or so.

They lied to you or dang close, I mean seals do dry up; but over YEARS of non-use and on older cars. Newer vehicles would need extreme temps and a LONG TIME. My personal opinion is the dealership that sold you the truck has lied to you, did not perform a fix and might have committed fraud.

So, here is what you do. You take the car to a certified Toyota shop. You tell them your symptoms and leave them to diagnose the problem. Do not MENTIONED one problem as told before, let Toyota.

Let us know what happens.

+2 agreed

 

[drewm]

In November I bought a Used 2003 4Runner with 75,000 miles. Soon afterward it started smoking, white smoke only when I start it up. I told the dealership. They said the vehicle had "sat" for awhile and one of the seals probably dried up. Took on a trip, continued to drive it... no other problems except the smoke when starting.

So five weeks ago the dealership took it to a shop to have the seal(s) fixed. Five weeks later I get the vehicle back. Still smokes, and now check engine light is on and the VSC Track OFF light stays on, AND it overheats, because they didn't put the fan shroud on because it was cracked ---one is on order.

The code from the CEL says an O2 sensor is out --- all of sudden it's out?

Any insight would be appreciated. I'm caught between the mechanic and the dealership. thank you. :yield:

The overheating is from your head gasket being blown, and either oil getting into your coolant, or coolant getting into your oil. Your coolant level is either overfilled with oil or dangerously low. Just FYI, the real fix for a head gasket issue is around $2500-4000 and will take a few days worth of labor. The "fix" they tried was a load of bs.

 

[chmura]

The overheating is from your head gasket being blown, and either oil getting into your coolant, or coolant getting into your oil. Your coolant level is either overfilled with oil or dangerously low. Just FYI, the real fix for a head gasket issue is around $2500-4000 and will take a few days worth of labor. The "fix" they tried was a load of bs.

It overheated due to the fan shroud not being installed. This might not seem a big deal on the older cars but on certain cars it plays a huge role. Big enough role to overheat an engine.

 

[DC runner]

I want to add some more.

The more I thought about this, the more I am convinced they sold you a POS and are commiting fraud by lying to you.

Lack of fan shroud doesn't cause a healthy car to overheat. Darn near 100% of the trucks I have owned have lost the shrouds at somepoint and they did not over heat.

So, let us connect the dots. Usually a head gasket will go bad when a vehicle overheats. It is clear your vehicle has a bad head gasket and overheats. Neither of which is a good sign. You don't want to buy a vehicle in either condition, nor should you trust one that has those symptoms to be fixed by a shady dealership either.

The reality is, I don't trust your car. Once a vehicle has a bad head gasket, coolant begins to work its way into your oil. This is very bad, because coolant destroys your oils ability to lubricate and destroys the internals of an engine.

If caught early, it is true you can usually fix a head gasket leak with little to no damage to an engine, but since you have no idea how long this vehicle has been like this, then below is my personal opinion for what needs to happen.

1. Consider the engine toast. Only a matter of time before a bearing goes out.
2. The dealership has committed fraud by not being honest with you and attempting to pass serious conditions off as minor annoyances


So, you should express these issues with them and if at all possible, void the entire sale. This will be difficult, as it has been several months since you took possession but you have the fact it has been with them being "fixed" for a large part of it on your side. If I were in your position, I would not continue to view the vehicle as a reliable truck.

My .02 cents.

 

[DC runner]

It overheated due to the fan shroud not being installed. This might not seem a big deal on the older cars but on certain cars it plays a huge role. Big enough role to overheat an engine.

I don't see it. Once moving, the fan does nothing anyway and most cars spend most time moving. I had my shroud off while replacing radiators testing and never had an issue. Fan shrouds help direct and increase cooling efficiency, but not sure I buy the argument that a fan shroud is the problem. I think an above post is correct. The dealership got a lemon and is lying to the poor fellow to get rid of it. Who really knows what happened. A PS traded it in and got away with it, since they go to auction.

 

[jdogray]

Thanks so much for the insights...

Let me see if I can add a little more information that may, or may not help:
After purchasing the vehicle the only trouble I had was the smoking. I drove it from NM to Denver CO and back --- not problems. For a v8 I even got good gas mileage. No dash lights, everything was find ---except the smoke.

Then it goes to the garage to fix the smoke problem. I was told they removed the heads, sent those to a machine shop to be worked on. When they had it put all back together, there was no smoke, but an oil from a different seal, so they fixed that. Total bill - paid by dealership $2,900+.

I picked up the car, drove it about 10 miles, then the CEL comes on and the Track off light comes on and the next morning, it smokes when I start it up.

I've check the oil, no coolant in there. I let the car sit in my drive way idling for 30 minutes --- no over heating.

Before I involve my attorney, I am having the dealership put on the new fan shroud, and the new 02 sensor. Then they will accompany me on a trip over the mountain to Alamogordo (about 70 miles) to ensure it won't overheat. I'll keep you all updated on the progress. I hope I don't have to get my attorney involved. Good Grief.

 

[drewm]

Let me see if I can add a little more information that may, or may not help:
After purchasing the vehicle the only trouble I had was the smoking. I drove it from NM to Denver CO and back --- not problems. For a v8 I even got good gas mileage. No dash lights, everything was find ---except the smoke.

Then it goes to the garage to fix the smoke problem. I was told they removed the heads, sent those to a machine shop to be worked on. When they had it put all back together, there was no smoke, but an oil from a different seal, so they fixed that. Total bill - paid by dealership $2,900+.

I picked up the car, drove it about 10 miles, then the CEL comes on and the Track off light comes on and the next morning, it smokes when I start it up.

I've check the oil, no coolant in there. I let the car sit in my drive way idling for 30 minutes --- no over heating.

Before I involve my attorney, I am having the dealership put on the new fan shroud, and the new 02 sensor. Then they will accompany me on a trip over the mountain to Alamogordo (about 70 miles) to ensure it won't overheat. I'll keep you all updated on the progress. I hope I don't have to get my attorney involved. Good Grief.

Okay, now this is different, you have the V8 which is not known for having a headgasket issue. How much smoking are we talking about when you start it? It's normal to have some water vapor, but puffy white smoke that hangs around and smells sweet is bad and that's coolant.

Did you check the coolant in the yellow/clear reservoir? It should be bright pink. If the coolant is not pink at all, that engine is pretty much a throw away as the pathways are probably all corroded because they are not using the required OEM Toyota coolant. If it is dark pink, there is oil mixed with it. Also make sure the level of coolant doesn't change. If you're getting white smoke, your coolant is being burned in the engine.

Assuming the did the head gasket right and checked the block and heads for warpage, the only other way to get coolant to burn in an engine is if your block is damaged, but I would hope all that would have been inspected when the heads were off.

 

[CXS]

I picked up the car, drove it about 10 miles, then the CEL comes on and the Track off light comes on and the next morning, it smokes when I start it up.

Ignore the dash lights - too many variables that can have easy solutions. Focus on the smoke which is a big deal. You need to provide accurate details of when and how much it smokes for anyone here to help.

 

[toyo]

Take some of the oil and get it analyzed at Blackstone. I'd be curious to see the Glycol #'s.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Maybe post a video of a cold start so we can see the smoke. I've had a few cars over the years that developed valve seal issues that would smoke on a cold start as well.

 

[jdogray]

Picture of smoke during start up

I'm tried attaching a video of the smoke during start up, but the file was too big I guess. Here is a snap shot of the video. This was at about 10:30a.m.

 

[drewm]

I'm tried attaching a video of the smoke during start up, but the file was too big I guess. Here is a snap shot of the video. This was at about 10:30a.m.

That looks like coolant. Did it smell sweet like coolant?

The only other thing I could possibly think of is if someone dumped something in your gas tank that wasn't gas.

 

[Robs08Runner]

If that thing smokes like that all the time, it would have to go low on coolant. I'd mark where the coolant was in the overflow to see if its dropping any. If yes, something didn't go right on the head gasket job. Example, the heads weren't checked and are warped. If the level stays the same, I'd guess that the valve guide seals are gone. My mother's S10 smoked like that only at startup. Turned out the bad seals were letting oil down into the combustion chambers causing the smoke. Hope this helps.

 

[DC runner]

What would worry me is how long it has been like this. Reshaping the heads need to be a quick find, otherwise if you are continually overheating the block or a section of the block; you risk damage to the block and internal components.

This is usually why a new head gasket and head fails; the block section has warped or is damaged beyond repair.

So, this is a V8. Those are very sturdy engines, not prone to this. Had you said V6, I would have said you could own it up to design but with the V8 you probably had a very negligent previous owner who let it overheat on the road and ran it dry drying to get to a shop or home. We all know the type. No AAA or tow assistance and so they literally destroy the car to get it home.

If it returned to smoking that soon after the "repair" then it probably can't be repaired so easily. The surfaces cannot be mated and the gasket is blowing as soon as possible. This also means coolant is just dumping into the oil, destroying the internal components..

Ugg.

 

[CXS]

The photo helps a lot, thanks. How long does it smoke like that? I'm wondering how long it takes to burn off whatever it is that's smoking. Maybe you mentioned it already but I didn't see how long it lasts. Does it burn off in 10 seconds? 60 seconds? If you shut it down after the smoking stops and re-start does it smoke all of again?

It's sure looking like a bad head gasket...

 

[jdogray]

The photo helps a lot, thanks. How long does it smoke like that? I'm wondering how long it takes to burn off whatever it is that's smoking. Maybe you mentioned it already but I didn't see how long it lasts. Does it burn off in 10 seconds? 60 seconds? If you shut it down after the smoking stops and re-start does it smoke all of again?

It's sure looking like a bad head gasket...

It is ONLY during start up, then it stops. Also, work on the heads was just finished the day before this picture was taken.