Sp00ner
New member
Nope, just 3 of us and a bunch of luggage, though we're talking at elevations of 8,000 feet.
Gear hunting while in cruise control is "Character" per Toyota
- Thread starter Charles Bronson
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Nope, just 3 of us and a bunch of luggage, though we're talking at elevations of 8,000 feet.
03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
Agree, 3rd gear at 4500 or more with no trailer in the mountains in the western states. Its sounds like the engine would blow up if I continue this way to the top of the mountain. I feel sorry for the 4runner struggling so hard and just slow down.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
They end at 2019. States 2020+ can’t tune them the way you need.
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honda250xtitan
New member
it's under powered with an old transmission. it's also reliable. but my 1000lbft of Tq 6.7 doenst hunt for gears when in cruise control doing 85 up the mtns 
Sparky9000
New member
2021nightshade4x4
New member
it's under powered with an old transmission. it's also reliable. but my 1000lbft of Tq 6.7 doenst hunt for gears when in cruise control doing 85 up the mtns
Lord Jesus that must be satisfying to drive.
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honda250xtitan
New member
ive heard alot of that regarding the different transmission in those trucks.
Charles Bronson
Member
Yep. What I've learned is that a quick tap of the throttle while in CC (not a ton of tap so as you feel it) will make it shift back to 5th immediately.
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Charles Bronson
Member
I agree with everyone that the 4runner is a truck, is 4700+lbs, has a long geared 5AT, and is lacking in torque and/or torque multiplication, BUT it still doesn't explain to me why I can be in CC and apply some steady and minor throttle when going up an minor long incline and the truck will rarely downshift into 4th and will never gear hunt. It sometimes unlocks the torque converter which provides MORE TORQUE MULTIPLICATION! What a novel idea?! Yet when leaving CC to full control, it doesn't want to unlock the TC in 5th, but rather downshift. It makes no freaking sense that they can't at least lessen this issue with a simple shift logic reprogram. This is 2021 after all.
Driving in the hills of northern Arkansas made me appreciate driving in 4th and even sometimes 3rd. A running speed of 2200-2400rpms seems to be the sweet spot for this motor in terms of response, smoothness, and mpg assuming you're having to deal with some minor topography. We saw nearly 20mpg in driving in the winding hills with a good amount of coasting followed by heavy throttle to climb. I never thought 20mpg would be possible, especially in hilly driving. Speeds ranged from 30mph to 65mph and we did 200 miles in the area. Then we head home on the interstate at speeds of ~75mph and saw 17.0 mpg. In the 4runner's defense, it did have a paddleboard on top and facing a cross wind of ~15mph.
Don't get me wrong, I do love the truck and my wife (her truck) absolutely loves it. Interstate driving just isn't what it's good at. Unfortunately for us, we have to do a lot interstate driving to get to fun places.
Driving in the hills of northern Arkansas made me appreciate driving in 4th and even sometimes 3rd. A running speed of 2200-2400rpms seems to be the sweet spot for this motor in terms of response, smoothness, and mpg assuming you're having to deal with some minor topography. We saw nearly 20mpg in driving in the winding hills with a good amount of coasting followed by heavy throttle to climb. I never thought 20mpg would be possible, especially in hilly driving. Speeds ranged from 30mph to 65mph and we did 200 miles in the area. Then we head home on the interstate at speeds of ~75mph and saw 17.0 mpg. In the 4runner's defense, it did have a paddleboard on top and facing a cross wind of ~15mph.
Don't get me wrong, I do love the truck and my wife (her truck) absolutely loves it. Interstate driving just isn't what it's good at. Unfortunately for us, we have to do a lot interstate driving to get to fun places.
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2021nightshade4x4
New member
You have to think, the Tacoma has a similarly underpowered V6 but SIX gears to fumble through!
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2021nightshade4x4
New member
Agree - Toyota’s not so logical “logic” and something I’ve never heard of… an in-between setting called Flex Lockup? (Read link in my earlier post, toward the end it Sounds like a recipe for premature lockup clutch wear…
TCM (ECM?) programming seems to be set thinking they can predict driver intent given the inputs and readings at any given moment, but they’re basing it on assumptions that the driver input MUST BE incorrect and needs correcting.
Reminds me of going from cable throttle to drive by wire. The 1+ second delay from input to response, slow mushy shifts… engineers with this preconceived notion that it MUST be drivers stabbing the throttle after seeing the light turn green that accounts for their products’ shitty fuel mileage!
HA!
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Charles Bronson
Member
Yeah, I've never heard of "Flex Lockup" until today. Most electronically controlled planetary automatics have torque converters that have "slip lock" which means the trans can lock, fully unlock, or partially lock the torque converter. Depending on the stall speed of the torque converter, it can give essentially provide few extra gears for 4th and 5th as unlocking the torque converter allows the trans to stay in the same gear but at a slightly higher rpm (~500rpms) plus some additional and much-needed torque multiplication. When the torque converter unlocks in the 4runner 5AT, rpms jump about 500rpms and then the truck usually has no issue cresting the hill. Every auto I've owned in the past 15 years manages to do this in cruise control. Why in 2021 Toyota still can't figure out how to do this is beyond boggling.
The biggest thing holding this truck back from better mpgs, acceleration, and overall driveability is a 8 speed auto like the one used in RWD Lexus products since freaking 2007.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
8 spd could be a game changer, but it’s got to commit to those gear changes, too. It’s like there’s no learning going on, or it’s constantly in relearn. I am curious what OTHER dynamics (that we haven’t yet discussed) are at play here, too.
Did we not have V8’s 20 years ago with less power than the V6, in heavier trucks, connected to a 4AT that had less trouble climbing grades than the 4Runner lol
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Gecko
New member
^This. Asking a computer to consider transmission gear ratios + engine outputs + elevation changes + keeping a consistent speed = never going to feel "natural" because it's programmed to keep a consistent speed first and will upshift/downshift as needed to do that, and it often feels quite haphazard. Even on vehicles with 6-, 8- and 10-speed transmissions, this has been my experience.
With that said, the tall gearing and slow downshifts of the 5AT exacerbate the issue, but yeah.
With that said, the tall gearing and slow downshifts of the 5AT exacerbate the issue, but yeah.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
Gear hunting while in cruise control is "Character" per Toyota
So maybe the vehicle reacting to a 1 MPH decrease in speed seems sudden and unnecessary to a driver who only stabs the gas after he:
1.) notices decel, usually > 1 MPH
2.) reacts, pressing pedal
3.) vehicle reacts, downshifting
It’s an awkward operator experience for the same reasons people only get carsick as passengers, never as the driver. Anything happening feels “wrong” when it’s not operator-commanded. That’s my theory (or yours, that I’ll adopt)
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So maybe the vehicle reacting to a 1 MPH decrease in speed seems sudden and unnecessary to a driver who only stabs the gas after he:
1.) notices decel, usually > 1 MPH
2.) reacts, pressing pedal
3.) vehicle reacts, downshifting
It’s an awkward operator experience for the same reasons people only get carsick as passengers, never as the driver. Anything happening feels “wrong” when it’s not operator-commanded. That’s my theory (or yours, that I’ll adopt)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Charles Bronson
Member
I guess the term "hill" is dependent on your definition. Steep and winding hills on two lane roads/highways? No way. Hills on the 4+ lane interstates of the Midwest? Hell yes you'll want and need CC.
That's true. I have lived all over CA and Nevada. CC in every vehicle is ineffective on all the foothills, coastal ranges and mountains whether it be freeway or highway. Basically, it's effective on valley roads only. Certainly this also depends on how loaded you are and wether or not you are running heavier, oversized tires. I have rarely used it over the years. I guess that's a personal choice. I might if there had been adaptive systems I suppose, too much traffic.
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bowhun2r
Member
Maggie S/C as a few others have noted cures this on HW cruising.
It's not a rocket ship... but I can tell you going up large inclines at HWY speeds it makes a huge difference.
Unfortunately, looks like Magnuson has not cracked the nanny's for Toyota Safety Sense. Bummer... If/when they do this would cure this.
It's not a rocket ship... but I can tell you going up large inclines at HWY speeds it makes a huge difference.
Unfortunately, looks like Magnuson has not cracked the nanny's for Toyota Safety Sense. Bummer... If/when they do this would cure this.
