Toyota's shift logic engineer should be shot

[Charles Bronson]

We've owned our 2020 ORP since July. Yesterday we drove 200 miles to Wichita which was through a constant 20mph+ headwind and lots of very long and steep hills through the Flint Hills of south central Kansas. The 4runner was constantly bouncing between 5th and 4th. Then when you'd get past the grade, it took forever to upshift to 5th. I could remedy this with a simple tap of the accelerator to force the upshift. The truck only managed 16mpg too. LOL Towards the end of trip I learned the key was to keep it under 78mph and when in cruise control, give it a little throttle myself going up hills to unlock the torque converter in 5th gear to keep it from downshifting to 4th.

Whoever at Toyota did the shift logic should be shot. It is seriously bad in those situations. There is no need for a downshift into 4th. Simply unlocking the torque converter in 5th is enough for those types of grades. It's as if the trans ecu doesn't recognize that 5th gear torque converter unlock is an option. I tried also using the manual mode function with it in 5th but it didn't help.

For those that have throttle enhancers like the Sprint Booster, does your 4runner exhibit this annoying behavior?

 

[fkheath]

Let's see: you are driving a box at 80 MPH with a 20+ MPH head wind (100+ MPH wind speed), uphill, and you complain about getting "only" 16 MPG?

 

[umidkusername]

Let's see: you are driving a box at 80 MPH with a 20+ MPH head wind (100+ MPH wind speed), uphill, and you complain about getting "only" 16 MPG?

I don't think his issue was really with the MPG.

 

[00Sebby]

It is pretty bad. I never had the 5-4-5-4-5-4-5-4-5 shifting in my '10 TE nor did it ever seem to get hung up in 4th. The '20 ORP on the other hand does these things quite often forcing me to manually put it in 4th until I get past the grade. It's kind of dumb.

 

[jp.vegas]

Yeah, that's an accurate observation vis a vis the 4th gear 5th gear battle. I see it a lot when I'm using the radar cruise on the freeway and you hit a slight grade...it's quick to downshift and then sticks there. A tap of the throttle brings it back to 5th gear. It's annoying for sure on my 30 minute commute, I'm sure it doesn't get more pleasant over time on a longer drive.

 

[mteolus]

They should have put the GX460 6 speed tranny in the 4Runner and geared it with 4.56. I've gotten as low as 13 mpg against a wind, pretty much stays in 4th. But I have a lift and bigger tires.

 

[JLTD]

My '15 does the same and requires babysitting as OP said. Most posts I have seen about the FJ indicate it exhibits similar behaviour.

Since shifting causes lots of wear, I just put mine in S4 and wait for the top of the hill.

I hear that installing the supercharger gets rid of this issue.

Some sort of aftermarket programming change may work as well, but I am planning on staying stock so haven't explored that option.

 

[AgentKooper]

I drive my 2021 from 5,280 feet over 11,000 foot passes weekly to go skiing, and my shift logic seems just fine. I read these complaints about the 5th gen power train all the time, and it feels like people are describing a totally different vehicle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Grape Ape]

Just shift manually...additionally, I'd love to get 16 mpg, I've had a 5th Gen since 2009 and never averaged more than 15, usually more like 14-14.5

 

[spartacus]

I drive mountain roads all the time and I like the shift points. locking and unlocking torque converter creates heat which reduces Tranny life so staying in 4 is like driving a stick. Also going down grades in lower gear keeps the speed in check and lessen the chance of brakes overheating.

 

[BetteMidler]

Honestly thought this was a troll post when OP said steep hills in Kansas.

 

[jcrown7]

Pulling an empty 5x8 trailer, I have spent nearly 1/3 the distance crossing Texas in 4th gear on the interstate just to keep the 4R from gear searching.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

Paul K,

If it's gear hunting, downshift. Use that S mode that everyone thinks is a sport mode but isn't. It's an anemic V6 that groans when you ask for any kind of power.

The 3.5 in the turd gen Tacoma is worse so be thankful it isn't that engine.

 

[Teamoatmealpie]

We've owned our 2020 ORP since July. Yesterday we drove 200 miles to Wichita which was through a constant 20mph+ headwind and lots of very long and steep hills through the Flint Hills of south central Kansas. The 4runner was constantly bouncing between 5th and 4th. Then when you'd get past the grade, it took forever to upshift to 5th. I could remedy this with a simple tap of the accelerator to force the upshift. The truck only managed 16mpg too. LOL Towards the end of trip I learned the key was to keep it under 78mph and when in cruise control, give it a little throttle myself going up hills to unlock the torque converter in 5th gear to keep it from downshifting to 4th.

Whoever at Toyota did the shift logic should be shot. It is seriously bad in those situations. There is no need for a downshift into 4th. Simply unlocking the torque converter in 5th is enough for those types of grades. It's as if the trans ecu doesn't recognize that 5th gear torque converter unlock is an option. I tried also using the manual mode function with it in 5th but it didn't help.

For those that have throttle enhancers like the Sprint Booster, does your 4runner exhibit this annoying behavior?

I find the Sprint Booster will down shift earlier, but then wont up shift and will hang in that lower gear, at higher RPMS. Even when it feels like has achieved enough speed to up-shift, it wont.

I kept my SB push button changer mounted on dash so, when I hit the highway I turn it off, if I know I am headed over the mtns.

 

[BigGy]

Is what it is. Put yer foot in it. Actually DRIVE your vehicle....vs....wanting the OEM to program it so it feels 'nice' to you. YMMV, of course.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Death Wish 5
“Toyota's shift logic engineer should be shot”
Starring T4R member Charles Bronson

 

[1000MPH]

I’m in the mountains all the time. I always use S-mode. As far as mtn hwys, it’s mostly to keep it in 4th going up grades, but also to keep it in 5th going back down. Off-road I’m in S-mode 90% of the time as well. Pretty much the only time I’m not in S-mode is city driving.

 

[ElectroBoy]

I find that the Sprint Booster has no effect on the shifting behavior going up/down hills. If your foot is absolutely still on the pedal there is no variation of the voltage going to the ECU, and the ECU uses it’s other criteria to determine when to shift. If you goose the pedal that’s another matter. If you’re in cruise control with your foot off the pedal the ECU is in total control. Sprint Booster is out of the equation.

I do find this shift behavior annoying. At least with my 3rd Gen (drive by cable), when kicked down under heavy acceleration, I could ease up on the pedal and it would upshift to 5th gear. My 5th Gen takes way too long to shift.

 

[3kushn]

Is what it is. Put yer foot in it. Actually DRIVE your vehicle....vs....wanting the OEM to program it so it feels 'nice' to you. YMMV, of course.

This along with other annoyances with Toyota I knew about prior to buying last December. Just took a deep breath and dove in.

I have a Limited so no "S" mode. Some of these features I didn't research enough on. Thinking I should have gotten a TRD something. Looked at Tacoma but didn't want stickers all over my truck. Didn't realize the 4R TRD didn't have stickers. Oh well. Is what it is, right?

There's a thread somewhere like "For those that complain about 5Speed Trany" IMO the OP's/my complaint could be mitigated with a 6speed or better yet an 8speed Transmission. That said, I don't know all the ins and outs of transmission design vs application. In other words, for those that like off-roading, is there a drawback to more gears? IDK

I quit driving 45K/year Jan 2020. Back then it was in an F150 and cruise control was nearly always on. My solution with this truck is keep Cruise OFF. Its not a 100% solution for the OP but much more tolerable. To me.

Wish there the heavy braking didn't happen when someone changes lanes in front of me while in cruise. Where's that setting? Just kidding and not wanting to derail the topic.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

I have a Limited so no "S" mode.

All 5th gen Runners have sequential mode. It's a step left from drive instead of having individual gear positions like before.