Gear opinions 4.88 or 5.29, and i have searched

[J-money$$$]

I dont ask too many questions on here, But its getting time for a re-gear and 35's. My truck is just for wheeling, but i drive it to the trails. I put about 10K a year in it wheeling, camping trips ect. Right now im running 285/75r16's with the factory 4.10's and a 5spd and I HATE IT. Its gutless on the highway, and im burning my clutch up offroad. The only nice thing is that i averaged over 20 mpg to moab, and to the rubicon. Keep in mind i dont drive that fast in my 4runner its top heavy and has no sway bars so at 75+ its a little sketchy

I have been playing around with the Grim Jeeper gear ratio calculator

With 4.10's and 285's its showing my rpms in 5th at 65 mph is 2291 - This is accurate. Its not in a good range and 5th is no good unless its downhill

With 5.29's and 315's its showing 2805 rpms @ 65 mph To me this seems right.

with 4.88's and 315's its showing 2587 rpms @ 65


at 3000K rpms 5th gear
410 and 33's= 85 mph = Unusable since i have to downshift if its not down hill.

488 and 35's= 75 mph
529 and 35's= 70 mph

And one other highway number:
410 and 33's 4th gear at 3k= 71

So IMO if i dive around right now without using 5th it will be almost exactly like having 5.29's and 35's

But highway isnt everything since if im driving it its going to a trail. so I have some crawl speeds in 1st at 1250 rpms. (i used this rpms since its a good average when im on the trail) keep in mind this is in feet per minute

410 and 33's = 266 ft/min
488 and 35's = 236 ft/min 12% slower
529 and 35's = 218 ft/min 18% slower than my current setup. This could be a serious benefit and i believe should be noticeable.


so there are my numbers im working with. I NEED a slower gear offroad. to me its worth a little highway mpg sacrifice. This truck will probably never get a crawl box so it needs to be in a good wheeling range just off gears alone.

Im leaning hard towards 5.29's What do you all think. Its just a driveable wheeler. ohh btw Im not interested in the strength argument that 488's are stronger than 5.29s If i was worried i wouldnt be running ifs still. The cv's will blow out first. To me 488's are a plus from my current setup, but i dont think its enough to matter offroad. And thats really what im looking for. I am just trying to see if you all think 5.29's (given my numbers) will be bearable.

 

[Pikeman]

Jason- go 5.29's and be happy. If you used it more on the street I would say consider the 4.88's. I know how you use the truck and where and how you wheel, the 5.29's will be a better play for you. I am sure some of the other people you wheel with will tell you the same thing. The next MOAB trip might be a bit of a bummer but really a 200-250 rpm difference at 70 isnt much as far as noise level goes. That is my opinion based on how I know you use your vehicle. Hope it helps.

 

[Outdoorlogic]

5.29... Especially if no plans for t-case reduction

 

[J-money$$$]

Thanks for the input guys. I have heard from just about everyone to go 5.29's too SO thats where im leaning. I dont know anyone with 5.29's and a 3.4, so i have never been able to talk to someone about it

 

[brian2sun]

I like my 4.88s with 35s 100xs better than I did with 33s, seriously. No doubt in my mind now that 4.88 was overgeared for 33s, I just didn't realize it until I got 35s. I hope that helps even though I know it probably just makes it more confusing!

I honestly wouldn't want 5.29s now even if I could get them for free. My tranny gears would go right back to being right in-between where they should be. 4.88s and 35s is perfect for me! I can't say how they'll be with a manual, but if I'm happy with 4.88s/auto, you will have even more control and power with a manual.

IMO, you gotta get your rpms up and that driveshaft spinning to feel a difference anyways. I've never felt much of a difference in 4Lo off road from when I had 4.10s and going to 4.88s. I notice the big difference going up the mtn when I'm doing 3K rpms.

It's possible since the tranny gears are different in a manual than my auto, that 5.29s might put each gear back in the proper power band better than 4.88s in your truck, but it's hard to say and IDK personally. All I know is I thought I was going to have to supercharge when I went to 35s and now, I can drive it like this forever because it's actually better than 33s.

 

[Big John]

With my 255/85's and 5.29's I run right at 3k @ 75 MPH. On longer hwy. trips I'll still get close to 20 and usually average around 17 or so daily driving. The sweet spot is right around 65 when I'll get 21+.
There is no question for me that 5.29's are the answer for you J. I think 35's are gonna be my next tire.
I'm pretty sure Brian2sun said he'd handle my firewall project to make em fit for a twelve pack and a couple of tacos.

 

[brian2sun]

With my 255/85's and 5.29's I run right at 3k @ 75 MPH. On longer hwy. trips I'll still get close to 20 and usually average around 17 or so daily driving. The sweet spot is right around 65 when I'll get 21+.
There is no question for me that 5.29's are the answer for you J. I think 35's are gonna be my next tire.
I'm pretty sure Brian2sun said he'd handle my firewall project to make em fit for a twelve pack and a couple of tacos.

Haha, actually I would be happy to flatten your firewalls for some beer and tacos! You coming out to CA soon?

I talked to J-money and I went on the gear calculator site he was using. I compared his 5 spd with 5.29s/315s and 4.88s/315s to my auto with 4.88s/315s and although there is some overlap since he has 5 gears and I only have 4, it looks to me like 4.88s will put his closer to my #s than 5.29s would. And his freeway rpms will be better with 4.88s than 5.29s.

His 1st gear will still be a lot lower than my 1st, but it will also put his 4th gear at the exact same ratio as my 3rd gear (which now feels like it's perfectly in it's power band when I'm driving up the mtn). His 5th gear will still be lower than my O/d (4th gear), but not way lower like 5.29s would make it.

I'm no expert on 5 spds and gearing them by any means, but according to the chart, I think 5.29s might make your 4th gear too low (rpms too high) to climb long hills and mtn passes. And 5th still won't be low enough.

 

[Pikeman]

There are a few guys on TTORA that have them. My opinion is based on calculators and what some others have said. Brian is a better source since he is running gears and size you are asking about. I know quite a few people have told me when I asked about 4.56 vs. 4.88 on my auto that basically Autos should use the next lower(numerically higher) over the manual. So if Brian is enjoying 4.88's then maybe that is the way to go. It will always be a big debate and boils down to personal preference. If you are planning more trips to MOAB or Rubicon or further away wheeling then probably the 4.88's. If you are going to stick to Big Bear or JV then maybe the 5.29's. Check with Scuba, Troyboy on TTORA for their input, although I think Scuba is a 4 cyl.

 

[brian2sun]

There are a few guys on TTORA that have them. My opinion is based on calculators and what some others have said. Brian is a better source since he is running gears and size you are asking about. I know quite a few people have told me when I asked about 4.56 vs. 4.88 on my auto that basically Autos should use the next lower(numerically higher) over the manual. So if Brian is enjoying 4.88's then maybe that is the way to go. It will always be a big debate and boils down to personal preference. If you are planning more trips to MOAB or Rubicon or further away wheeling then probably the 4.88's. If you are going to stick to Big Bear or JV then maybe the 5.29's. Check with Scuba, Troyboy on TTORA for their input, although I think Scuba is a 4 cyl.

X2^^. I think it's a good rule of thumb that autos should go one step lower (higher numerically) to match the power of a manual. So (and this is not exact, but close in actual feel)..
4.56/manual = 4.88/auto (with the same size tires)
4.88/manual = 5.29/auto
..and so on..

This stuff can get soooo confusing, but I look at it like this.. If I'm happy with 4.88s/315s/auto, then 4.56/315s/manual should feel about the same. If you want a little extra torque for wheeling, then I think 4.88s in your truck will still be a significant step up from what I'm running (especially in regards to your 1st gear). 5.29s would be more like 2 steps up from what I'm running and I think that'll be overgeared. Or is it undergeared?? I'm not even sure on the terminology, but you'll be ~2 steps past me in terms of final drive ratios for 1st and 5th gears. That would be fine on the trails I'm sure, but I'm betting it'll be really harsh on those long road trips you like to go on.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure you'll have to bounce it around a while longer before you hit the pay button. I hope I'm not confusing you more, it's a tough choice.

 

[J-money$$$]

Im not getting more confused. You all have good points. I will be doing a few more long trips in the future. More rubicon trips for sure, But i am not going to pick a gear on the fact that 1 time a year i may do a long drive.

this stuff is hard to decide on. And after talking to Brian I realized how much different the 5 spds are from the autos. They are completely different and when you look at the numbers it looks drastically different, but im wondering if the torque converter has a lot to do with it since its almost infinitely variable. SO the numbers on the final drive on n auto are in a full lockup. You cant go around slipping the clutch all the time.

Its so different all the info i can find is with autos =)

Right now on uphills 4th is too tall, 5th is no good unless your going down hill.
3rd is too short for long climbs because you end up having to go under 55 to keep the rpms down.

And on the trail it sucks because im constantly riding the truck because ill stall on almost everything. Its just a little too fast. THis is on 33's and 35's will make it all worse. thats why im so torn... Decisions decisions.... Ill keep researching. Keep opinions coming.

BTW Big John Just hack the fenders and take a BFH to the firewall. Brian and I handled his in no time!!!!

 

[JWaldz]

This ought to help ya out...

 

[the great him]

id say go for the 529s, only cause its not your dd. the only draw back i see is the higher torque load with the lower gearing, thus more broken CVs especially with your locker up front, but if your are ok with this(as im sure you are) then yeah do it once and do i right, go 529s.

 

[brian2sun]

This ought to help ya out...

Jason and I actually talked about that today, but you'd have to do the F150 gas tank conversion to make dual cases work because our tank is in the way. Not that the F150 swap is a bad thing though, just more $$. It would make 4 linking the rear possible too.

 

[JWaldz]

Jason and I actually talked about that today, but you'd have to do the F150 gas tank conversion to make dual cases work because our tank is in the way. Not that the F150 swap is a bad thing though, just more $$. It would make 4 linking the rear possible too.

I see no negative ideas in this paragraph lol. If I had the money to do it all, along with sas'n the front I'd already be well on my way. No harm in dreaming right? I think maybe you, Jason, myself and a few other people are the more "hardcore" wheelers on this site. One of us is bound to sas sooner or later

but back on topic, I planned to be locked front and rear after christmas (been saving). I'll be running 4.88s mainly cus I drive a lot of highway back and forth to work. If this was a dedicated trail rig I'd run 5.29. 5.29s are gonna be pretty low for you having a manual though

 

[J-money$$$]

yeah no dual casing for me anytime soon. That TG link shows how cheap it can be done on an older truck, But good luck on a taco/4runner keeping the taco t case. Its $1100 for the adapters alone.

Im fine breaking cv's. I have discovered that you lock the front with an auto locker and have great results, but you have to be smooth.

Im still leaning to the 5.29's I know they will be awesome off road. I wish I had them for this weekends trip to the Hammers...

 

[Dirtco]

I vote 5.29's. There is always a compromise when your building an off-road rig that will be driven on the street. It’s not your DD, you don’t have sway bars, and so far your stance has been “Trail > Street”. Your not going to regret 5.29’s on the trail, and on the street they will be better than what you have now (especially if you don’t go over 70-75 mph on a normal basis).

As for the lower gearing breaking more parts I tend to disagree. I broke a lot more stuff with a single stock t-case than I ever did with a single 4.7 or dual cases. Lower gearing allows you to have a more “fluid” and smooth run through the rough stuff without bouncing around and shock loading the drivetrain.

 

[scottyb]

Another vote for 5.29's. Considering the amount of time you spend on the trail with your 4runner vs the amount of time you spend on the highway, it makes a lot more sense.

It's only a few hundred rpm difference on the highway, which eats a little more gas. That doesn't seem like a big deal to me. That slower crawl speed will be awesome offroad. I've been planning on going 5.29's when I get 35's and mine's a DD.

Just think what will be better:

1) When you're cruising on the highway with your 4.88's are you going to look down at your speedometer and say 'oh yeah, saving that gas compared to if I had 5.29's

or

2) That smile you can't get off your face when you slowly crawl over some obstacle in a controlled motion with rpm's to spare before you have to slip the clutch

I always feel too fast on obstacles with 33's and 4.10's. It drives me nuts.

 

[the great him]

I vote 5.29's. There is always a compromise when your building an off-road rig that will be driven on the street. It’s not your DD, you don’t have sway bars, and so far your stance has been “Trail > Street”. Your not going to regret 5.29’s on the trail, and on the street they will be better than what you have now (especially if you don’t go over 70-75 mph on a normal basis).

As for the lower gearing breaking more parts I tend to disagree. I broke a lot more stuff with a single stock t-case than I ever did with a single 4.7 or dual cases. Lower gearing allows you to have a more “fluid” and smooth run through the rough stuff without bouncing around and shock loading the drivetrain.

while yes that is true about being able to be more fluid, the simple fact of the matter is you are lowering your gearing and increasing your effective torque. it will put more stress on the components of the drive train. he will be prone to breaking things more so with 529s, even possibly breaking pinion gears as they are smaller how ever it would be unlikely for this to happen as im sure a CV would break first.

 

[Rc4r]

I sorta have the same dilemma. I have 33s and will for a long while but talk to a the owner of my local shop and he called the place he buys all his Yukon parts and he told the guy all about my truck and plans for it and he said to go 5.29s. But reading all this makes me nervous.

 

[Dirtco]

while yes that is true about being able to be more fluid, the simple fact of the matter is you are lowering your gearing and increasing your effective torque. it will put more stress on the components of the drive train. he will be prone to breaking things more so with 529s, even possibly breaking pinion gears as they are smaller how ever it would be unlikely for this to happen as im sure a CV would break first.

You are correct, in a perfect math world where traction is always a given. But in the real world there are way too way factors. From what I have seen and experienced lower gearing will help you more than it hurts you, as long as you don’t “Bind” up the driveline. You have to know when to let off, the lower gearing will pull harder if you push it to that point; that’s when stuff breaks.

I have several friends running 40’s w/ dual cases (4.7 rear), Toyota 8” axles w/ 5.29’s. They are running the hardest trails in Colorado and they have minimal breakage. I understand your theory, but I’m talking real trail experience. These are my “little” trucks on 35’s / 37’s…