Geico, are you freaking kidding me???

[Jetboy]

Well, I can tell you with certainty that you're incorrect. I am terribly sorry if that displeases you. However if you don't carry an insurance license and are not a JD, then you have no reason to know what you're talking about. which is why people seek out my advice and the advice of others like me. insurance is required by lenders, but as with all large scale things there are little holes in coverage because the percentage of the folks doing that is so low it's not worth underwriting. That does not mean they go ahead and cover it anyway.

As I have said I am not guessing at this, your first post was "I don't actually know the answer but this is what I think." I carry a P&C License, which requires ongoing CE I also have an INS 21 and INS 22 designation... I speak to groups of high schoolers and their parents while standing beside local law enforcement specifically about different driving risks and hazards at the invitation of the local schools. If you choose to disregard my comments, it will have zero impact on my life, but is at your peril. So, do whatever you like.

As fate would have it, I am a lawyer. And I used to sue car insurance companies for a living as my first job out of law school. Im pretty confident in my conclusions on the terms of my insurance contract. I don't know the answer for the OP. I do know for me. I don't think it's a close call or a gray area.

 

[jordanrb81]

As fate would have it, I am a lawyer. And I used to sue car insurance companies for a living as my first job out of law school. Im pretty confident in my conclusions on the terms of my insurance contract. I don't know the answer for the OP. I do know for me. I don't think it's a close call or a gray area.

Well, if you're an attorney I'll say two things. One I have met attorney's who know more than I about Property and Casualty insurance, depending of course on their area of practice. Two you know exactly what the credentials are that I am referring to in my last post, and that I know what I am talking about. If you had the inclination I am sure you could find a case that went to trial where an insurance company denied such a claim, and won, because they do.

 

[Jetboy]

Well, if you're an attorney I'll say two things. One I have met attorney's who know more than I about Property and Casualty insurance, depending of course on their area of practice. Two you know exactly what the credentials are that I am referring to in my last post, and that I know what I am talking about. If you had the inclination I am sure you could find a case that went to trial where an insurance company denied such a claim, and won, because they do.

Im not aware of any where coverage was denied for off road use. But I wouldn't have a reason to search in your state. Which is why my first answer was that it's state specific and sometimes policy specific. I'm aware of dozens of off road incidents here the insurance company paid. And that's what would be expected. The protection is for the lender first. Lenders wrote the laws. Lobbied for the right rules. And have the most skin in the game. Insurance companies don't care. They care that they think they know the actuarial risk (although most don't because they use gaussian probability models for non gaussian distributions, but that's a different issue). As long as the insurance co has a set of risks they can make a policy to cover them. They don't care what's in it. Lenders care. So lenders make the rules.

Possibly in your state the insurance lobby is stronger than the auto dealers and lenders? In that case the laws may allow exclusions like this.

 

[jhmoore]

UPDATE from Geico

UPDATE AFTER TALKING WITH GEICO

After the utterly unhelpful response of Geico customer service, I escalated my inquiry by reaching out to several Geico executives. It took a little back and forth, but today I had a call from a Geico claims supervisor and we had a good conversation about the "rules" of offroad use and my Geico policy. She is supposed to follow the conversation by sending their written policies, but I haven't received those yet.

I was clear that I was just trying to understand the rules so that I could make informed decisions about how to use the vehicle and/or understand when I might not be covered, and that there was no claim to be made on the vehicle.

First off, Geico has no concept of "offroading" -- it is not a term they use.

They generally exclude four types of activity: racing, speed, demolitions, and stunting (stunt activity). It is this last one that applies to what I would call "offroading."

Gravel roads in national parks, BLM land, USFS land, etc -- covered

Mixed gravel/dirt/rock roads, pretty rough, maintained by some agency -- that an ordinary car would not be able to drive, but a vehicle like my 4Runner would -- likely to be covered

Desert wash which is commonly used as a road/trail -- likely to be covered

Desert wash which is commonly used as a road/trail, but with big rocks and I'm driving 50-60 MPH -- not likely to be covered

Flip my 4Runner while rock crawling -- not likely to be covered

Because she is also in San Diego, we specifically talked about some types of trails in Anza-Borrego and areas like the mountains near Ramona. It really came down to being covered unless doing something where there's an obvious hazard to the vehicle, e.g., rock crawling. Desert washes, crappy rocky roads in the mountains are good / likely to be covered so long as you're not doing something stupid.

 

[Dillusion]

So basically the same thing that was said before. Kinda vague and they will pretty much have an out for almost any thing.

 

[jhmoore]

So basically the same thing that was said before. Kinda vague and they will pretty much have an out for almost any thing.

No, less vague. It wasn't even clear before whether a gravel road in a National Park was covered or not. It is. Or a desert wash. But rock-crawling is on you.

 

[jhmoore]

So basically the same thing that was said before. Kinda vague and they will pretty much have an out for almost any thing.

when I said "likely to be covered," that's my wording. I said, "you won't be held to this, but in your experience would it be covered?" and she responded that it would be covered. Not a guarantee. But in her experience, covered.

 

[XtremeAdventurer]

Actual Experience

Granted, I didn't read this whole thread. Started skimming on page 2, skipped page 3, and skimmed page 4. But, it sounds like there are 2 sides that keep arguing, with out any actual experience.

Here's my actual experience with Geico:
It was a warm late winter day at the end of a week of warm days and below freezing nights. I decided to go back-country skiing and head up NF-275 (National Forest Road). While the road is considered "maintained" it is a gravel road and then a dirt road.
On one of the corners of the road, I hit a sheet of ice covered in water and started to fishtail. Ended up nosing my 1984 Bronco II off the {15ish foot} embankment and down into the creek.
I climbed out and after a while flagged a snowmobiler down. Got a ride to my place and was back to my car less than 4 hours later. In that time, someone else came down the road, saw my vehicle, drove out to cell reception, and called the police. The sheriff came out, inspected the scene, called the fire department and search & rescue. They pulled the Bronco out and towed it back to the impound lot.
I show back up to where my vehicle used to be and can't find it. I had gathered everything that I needed to self (with help) rescue. We searched for a couple hours and then headed home. I called the police to report my vehicle stolen and they informed me that it was in impound. The next day I got it out of impound for $470. They wanted me to pay for search & rescue and didn't like the fact that I fled the scene. And this several miles up a Forest Service road.

I called Geico to get some advise. They negotiated the search & rescue to $0 and reimbursed my out of pocket for the impound fee. I questioned them about the fact that it was on a forest service road and they said that they'd still cover it.

I know that this is only 1 story, but that was my experience. You can argue about theory for days, weeks, or months, but you won't really know until you have some experience.
I didn't even ask for them to pay me back, all I wanted was some advise and to see if they could help with the search & rescue part.

My advice:
If you want to drive trails, have the money to pay for damages to your vehicle. If insurance pays for it, great! If not, then you had fun and have a great story to tell.

 

[jhmoore]

Thanks [MENTION=71050]XtremeAdventurer[/MENTION], your story is a great example of the “middle ground” that I’m trying to understand... you were neither on a paved highway nor rock-crawling.

If you look back just a couple posts, you’ll see one from me with information from Geico that is consistent with your experience.

 

[VUI Guy]

Yeah, I'm the troll who started a ****ing thread to complain that my insurance wouldn't give me a written response for how they would handle every conceivable claim that might could ever be filed.

Who's got the popcorn????