GM Going Down in Flames!

[Fourty-four]

They also will be remembered for a bad business model that is eroding the company and is realistic they could fold or they'll be this small company just selling a few models in the next 20 years.

Wow. Bad business model? Think about GM's success over the last 100 years. Do you really consider that a bad business model?

It is 100% unrealistic that GM will fold. It will never happen in our lifetime. GM is still an incredibly large company with tons of cash reserves. Sure, they are having some problems right now, but nothing that puts them in danger of folding.

Are you old enough to remember when Chrysler was in the same position (actually, a worse position)??

 

[JB.]

Are you old enough to remember when Chrysler was in the same position (actually, a worse position)??

I am. So I guess you mean that GMs problems are nothing that a multi-billion dollar, government backed loan and eventual buyout by a foreign competitor can't solve?

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Wow. Bad business model? Think about GM's success over the last 100 years. Do you really consider that a bad business model?

It is 100% unrealistic that GM will fold. It will never happen in our lifetime. GM is still an incredibly large company with tons of cash reserves. Sure, they are having some problems right now, but nothing that puts them in danger of folding.

Are you old enough to remember when Chrysler was in the same position (actually, a worse position)??

It worked for a 100 years but as the world has changed GM hasn't and how do you figure GM is doing well when jobs are being hacked all over and plants being shut down but Toyota and Honda are opening new factories and employing more and more americans every year.

I doubt they wil fold but the Big 3 in america won't be american companies in the next couple of decades.

 

[Koz]

Toyota will sell more cars then GM in 2006 and will move them into the number 1 car manufacture in the world. The bottom line is total sales. GM sales are dropping by 14 %, regardless of how many vehicles they sell. The only thing that keeps GM alive is its trucks and US market. Toyota will be taking a big bite out of that market in 07, with the new Tundra. GM needs to see the writing on the wall "They need to build a more reliable vehicle". If they haven't seen this by now, it's only a matter of time before its hemorrhaging becomes fatal!

Koz

 

[Presto]

It's the fragmentation of our society as a whole.

GM still operates like it did 100 years ago. Everyone wants to be different, and they choose products accordingly. Look at television watching, viewership is eroding to cable because now there's a cable channel for EVERYONE.

Not everyone wants a GM these days because there are more products to choose from. GM would still be losing share as more auto manufacturers move into the market and create their own interpretation of the "perfect SUV." GM just hasn't done that great in slowing this process by making uninspiring autos combined with crummy domestic build quality and overpromised benefits.

 

[Bluto]

i guess now i feel bad because i could of supported my country by buying american and i didnt

GM and Toyota are both global companies, so what is the difference?

The full sized Sliverado is buit in Canada. Or you could go all out and pick up a Cadillac Escalade from Mexico:

http://www.gm.com/company/corp_info/global_operations/

 

[Fourty-four]

It worked for a 100 years but as the world has changed GM hasn't and how do you figure GM is doing well when jobs are being hacked all over and plants being shut down but Toyota and Honda are opening new factories and employing more and more americans every year.

I doubt they wil fold but the Big 3 in america won't be american companies in the next couple of decades.

I never said that GM is doing well. Any company losing as much money as they are obviously is NOT doing well. That doesn't mean that they will not do well in the future. Regardless of what you may think, they are still a cash rich company.

I'm glad to see that GM is closing factories. That's exactly what they should be doing to survive. 85% isn't a good number for the average productivity (efficiency) of their assemby plants. If they start selling more vehicles, I'm sure they can ramp up production again.

Toyota has a MUCH smaller operation. They are running more than 100% efficiency, but only because of overtime hours.

 

[Fourty-four]

Toyota will sell more cars then GM in 2006 and will move them into the number 1 car manufacture in the world. The bottom line is total sales. GM sales are dropping by 14 %, regardless of how many vehicles they sell. The only thing that keeps GM alive is its trucks and US market. Toyota will be taking a big bite out of that market in 07, with the new Tundra. GM needs to see the writing on the wall "They need to build a more reliable vehicle". If they haven't seen this by now, it's only a matter of time before its hemorrhaging becomes fatal!

Koz

I doubt that 2006 will end with Toyota selling more total volume than GM. The Tundra will not take a big bite out of their truck market, especially when you consider that they are already planning on increasing the production of the new Tahoe (and twins) by more than 18% over the original numbers. It seems that they have a hit on their hands with the new styling of the Tahoe. Even with $3/gallon gas prices, the Tahoe will still sell above expectations.

Meanwhile, the Tundra still hasn't made any real dent in the truck market versus Chevy/Ford/Dodge. Face it, full size truck buyers still prefer an American pickup. Toyota has a tough road ahead of them to change that any time soon.

 

[Fourty-four]

It's the fragmentation of our society as a whole.

GM still operates like it did 100 years ago. Everyone wants to be different, and they choose products accordingly. Look at television watching, viewership is eroding to cable because now there's a cable channel for EVERYONE.

Not everyone wants a GM these days because there are more products to choose from. GM would still be losing share as more auto manufacturers move into the market and create their own interpretation of the "perfect SUV." GM just hasn't done that great in slowing this process by making uninspiring autos combined with crummy domestic build quality and overpromised benefits.

Good point. If GM or Ford made vehicles as reliable as Toyota or Honda, I'd never buy anything but an American vehicle. Unfortunately, American cars are still lagging far behind Japanese vehicles when it comes to reliability.

I'm sure that there are a whole lot of people who feel the same way.

 

[Bluto]

Meanwhile, the Tundra still hasn't made any real dent in the truck market versus Chevy/Ford/Dodge. Face it, full size truck buyers still prefer an American pickup. Toyota has a tough road ahead of them to change that any time soon.

Have you seen the 07 Tundra? That is what Koz it talking about. Nissan is doing well with the Titan. Toyota will do far better with the new Tundra.

 

[Fourty-four]

Have you seen the 07 Tundra? That is what Koz it talking about. Nissan is doing well with the Titan. Toyota will do far better with the new Tundra.

Yeah, I know all about the new Tundra. And it's my opinion that it will not even make a dent in the sales of full-size pick-ups from the Big Three. Things may change years down the road, but the fact remains that the vast majority of full-size truck buyers still overwhelming prefer American trucks.

BTW, have you ever compared the sales numbers for the Titan and the F-series? Or Silverado? No comparison.

 

[Bluto]

Yeah, I know all about the new Tundra. And it's my opinion that it will not even make a dent in the sales of full-size pick-ups from the Big Three. Things may change years down the road, but the fact remains that the vast majority of full-size truck buyers still overwhelming prefer American trucks.

BTW, have you ever compared the sales numbers for the Titan and the F-series? Or Silverado? No comparison.

Nothing has a big impact right away. It took Toyota a while to 'make a dent' in the American market.

Toyota and Nissan have the truck platform and consumer base to impact the consumer full-sized truck sales in a few years.

The F-series covers a lot of markets. Fleet, rental, government, commercial, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, +1 ton.

How can you compare total 'F-series' sales to a 1/2 ton extended cab truck from Nissan?

The Titan is only going into it's 3rd year. It still has some weak points. The fact it sells should worry domestics. It sells, is here to stay, and will improve.

The majority of car buyers preferred American 10 to 15 years ago.

 

[Presto]

Yeah, I know all about the new Tundra. And it's my opinion that it will not even make a dent in the sales of full-size pick-ups from the Big Three. Things may change years down the road, but the fact remains that the vast majority of full-size truck buyers still overwhelming prefer American trucks.

BTW, have you ever compared the sales numbers for the Titan and the F-series? Or Silverado? No comparison.

That same line of thought is what got Ford in trouble when the Ford Taurus was the #1 passenger car until it was dethroned by Camry.

The domestics just need to stay ahead of Toyota on the truck front to slow the bleeding. They'll still dominate though.

 

[Fourty-four]

Nothing has a big impact right away. It took Toyota a while to 'make a dent' in the American market.


Absolutely. Not just Toyota, but all foreign makes.

Toyota and Nissan have the truck platform and consumer base to impact the consumer full-sized truck sales in a few years.

In a few years? Not even close. The numbers are just not there for the truck market. That doesn't mean it can't happen eventually, but there's no way that can happen within a few years

The F-series covers a lot of markets. Fleet, rental, government, commercial, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, +1 ton.

How can you compare total 'F-series' sales to a 1/2 ton extended cab truck from Nissan?

You can't compare. That's exactly my point. It's not me holding the position that the Tundra (or Titan) will take a big bite out of the domestic truck market.

The Titan is only going into it's 3rd year. It still has some weak points. The fact it sells should worry domestics. It sells, is here to stay, and will improve.

It may or may not be here to stay. Three years hardly proves anything. It's not exactly a blockbuster on the sales charts.

The majority of car buyers preferred American 10 to 15 years ago.

Don't look now, but they still do. Research the numbers and you'll see that more people buy American cars than Japanese or European cars.

 

[Koz]

Nothing has a big impact right away. It took Toyota a while to 'make a dent' in the American market.


Absolutely. Not just Toyota, but all foreign makes.

Toyota and Nissan have the truck platform and consumer base to impact the consumer full-sized truck sales in a few years.

In a few years? Not even close. The numbers are just not there for the truck market. That doesn't mean it can't happen eventually, but there's no way that can happen within a few years

The F-series covers a lot of markets. Fleet, rental, government, commercial, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, +1 ton.

How can you compare total 'F-series' sales to a 1/2 ton extended cab truck from Nissan?

You can't compare. That's exactly my point. It's not me holding the position that the Tundra (or Titan) will take a big bite out of the domestic truck market.

The Titan is only going into it's 3rd year. It still has some weak points. The fact it sells should worry domestics. It sells, is here to stay, and will improve.

It may or may not be here to stay. Three years hardly proves anything. It's not exactly a blockbuster on the sales charts.

The majority of car buyers preferred American 10 to 15 years ago.

Don't look now, but they still do. Research the numbers and you'll see that more people buy American cars than Japanese or European cars.

This kind of thinking is why the big three are in a world of shit!

Koz

 

[Fourty-four]

This kind of thinking is why the big three are in a world of shit!

Koz

What kind of thinking? Your post doesn't make much sense because you replied to a multifaceted answer by generalizing.

What did I write that leads you to believe that my thinking "is why the big three are in a world of shit"?

It seems to me that I made valid points. Care to elaborate?

 

[Bluto]

You can't compare. That's exactly my point. It's not me holding the position that the Tundra (or Titan) will take a big bite out of the domestic truck market.

Don't look now, but they still do. Research the numbers and you'll see that more people buy American cars than Japanese or European cars.

The Titan may not be here to stay? I guess you should tell Nissan before they make a big financial mistake. They think otherwise:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109615


You can research total sale numbers all you want. The market is not sales numbers. I never said Toyota would take a big bite out of sales numbers. Toyota impacts Ford's bottom line. Toyota is not the one losing jobs and closing plants.


Toyota is expanding the market, and converting some domestic owners. With the new Tundra, more will convert. They don't have any plans to sell a million Tundra's a year. But the big 3 will be losing more sales in the future. A few % has a big affect.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/SUB/60224158&SearchID=73239929095051

 

[Fourty-four]

The Titan may not be here to stay? I guess you should tell Nissan before they make a big financial mistake. They think otherwise:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109615


I said that it may or may not be here to stay. Three years doesn't prove anything when it comes to longevity in the truck market. And what would you expect of Nissan (or any manufacturer? Should they NOT try to sell a full-size pickup because it MIGHT not sell well? What kind of thinking is that? In this day and age, it's important for any manufacturer to have a solid model lineup. Why do you think we're seeing SUVs from companies that did not build SUVs years ago?



You can research total sale numbers all you want. The market is not sales numbers. I never said Toyota would take a big bite out of sales numbers. Toyota impacts Ford's bottom line. Toyota is not the one losing jobs and closing plants.

Of course the market is about sales numbers. Auto manufacturers are in business to sell cars. Are you kidding me?? What else are you basing your comparison (and opinions) on? Which one looks prettier?


Toyota is expanding the market, and converting some domestic owners. With the new Tundra, more will convert. They don't have any plans to sell a million Tundra's a year. But the big 3 will be losing more sales in the future. A few % has a big affect.

Converting owners? There are quite a few people out there who switch between American/Japanese/European vehicles throughout their lives. I'm one of them. Did Toyota "convert" me from an American car buyer to a Japanese car buyer? Of course not. I simply chose to buy a Toyota THIS time. Next time, I may buy something from GM, Ford, BMW etc...

American car companies still dominate the truck/SUV market. As more foreign companies enter that specific market, of course it will have an effect on sales. That's a natural part of increased competition. Anyone who ever took a business course in school understand that simple concept.

This whole thread is hilarious because it started with Koz crying that the sky is falling for GM. The truth of the matter is that GM is far from "going down in flames." They will do whatever necessary to turn things around and return to a profitable company.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/SUB/60224158&SearchID=73239929095051 [/B]

 

[Bluto]

Of course the market is about sales numbers. Auto manufacturers are in business to sell cars. Are you kidding me?? What else are you basing your comparison (and opinions) on? Which one looks prettier?

The market is all about sales? Last I heard, you have to make a profit to stay in business. Manufacutres are in the business to make money, and stay in the business buy selling cars. Something GM has not been very good at lately. Sales numbers are a factor in the equation. Volume of sales does not does not equal profit and/or quality.


Edit: Yeah, GM will turn around, but it is going to cost them.

 

[Koz]

Nothing has a big impact right away. It took Toyota a while to 'make a dent' in the American market.

Absolutely. Not just Toyota, but all foreign makes.


You guys think that Toyota just put a