Going larger that 265 70 17
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BlackWorksInc
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Depends on how big you want to go? Going to a 285/70R17 wouldn't be too much more work beyond some trimming if you're running stock body work (i.e. front bumper, ect). Anything larger than 33's are gonna start causing issues without body lifts, BMC, wheels, ect.
I myself am running 35's on my 4th gen.
I myself am running 35's on my 4th gen.
I'm running 285/70/17, i had to trim a bit of the front fender well guard, take off the mudflaps and cut some of the body mount, but ill have to cut a bit more, it usually only rubs when I'm turning and reversing(down my driveway). I'm running cooper st maxx. Im lifted 3'' in front with the OME struts/springs.
bassmacka
Member
Im thinking of getting the addicted off road front bumper later this year, but im wondering if the body lift is a must or not.
gm350reratliff
New member
I cleared 255/80/17 ST Maxx with my 5100's with just a little trimming of the front bumper. No body mount chop was needed.
BlackWorksInc
New member
How big do you want to go? 33's you can do without a body lift, just requires some trimming here and there (no more factory mudflaps in the front, ect.)
34" & 35" tires will need a body lift and some more work if you want to actually use them beyond speed bumps.
4rcybr
New member
I keep hearing conflicting ideas on this.
Some people say you don't need any bodylift, others say you do. For example, I stopped by the Demello shop the other day and they said a bodylift wasn't at all necessary to go to 35s. However, I've seen comments like the one you made saying that is.
Is the distinction perhaps in whether you're going to long travel or custom suspension or the like? Or how much hammering sawing and welding one does in the wheel-well?
I've got a while until my wheels wear out and I replace them, but since I intend to buy 35's to replace them I'm really trying to get this nailed down in the meantime...
NinjaOne
New member
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/229832-**35s-4th-gen-fitment-guide**-2.html#post2549464
You can use larger bump stops to prevent up-travel
4rcybr
New member
I've read that thread-even posted there.
Still doesn't answer the discrepancy between those who say BL is needed if you're gong to wheel with 35s and those who say it isn't necessary.
luke87gt
New member
My view is that 265/70/17 is a great size for a mid-size 4th generation 4runner.
I have a set of Falken ATW3 tires in that sizes and I think it compliments the car just great, wouldn't want to go bigger.
And with the Daystar 2.5/1.5, it took quite a bit of work get things to clear (front fender liner, rear mud flap, and front bumper trimming).
Granted I have SCS wheels which are spaced fairly aggressively which doesn't help with wheel clearance when turning. But that's the price we pay
I have a set of Falken ATW3 tires in that sizes and I think it compliments the car just great, wouldn't want to go bigger.
And with the Daystar 2.5/1.5, it took quite a bit of work get things to clear (front fender liner, rear mud flap, and front bumper trimming).
Granted I have SCS wheels which are spaced fairly aggressively which doesn't help with wheel clearance when turning. But that's the price we pay
I have 33's and rub on the frame at full turn and wheel well when off road. No mudflaps, aftermarket bumper so no rub. I rub so bad when stuffed I ripped out the liner on a trail. Considering most people find anything over 2" lift screws up alignment stuff a body lift is required. If it wasn't I'd go 35's myself.
BlackWorksInc
New member
The discrepency comes from a couple things.
As I mentioned before you can fit 35's with some trimming and run them on the street fairly easy without a body lift.
Additionally you can go a bit further and run 35's decently (off-road) without a body lift if you limit up-travel and trim a bit. It's doable, but at the cost of limiting suspension travel.
I used a 1.5" body lift on top of my 3" suspension to maintain as much up-travel in my suspension as possible (even then I still have some issues with stuffing here and there at full flex).
It just depends on the set-up really. For example, if you run a drop-bracket kit you really wouldn't need a body lift.
BlackWorksInc
New member
4rcybr
New member
Some guys have modified the FJ Cruiser 6" drop-bracket kits onto 4th gens, also on 5th gens (or maybe they have a kit for them now, not sure).
I've seen that. I've seen people say that those won't hold up offroad, I've also seen people say they will.
What's your take?
My plan has been the 4crawler 1.5 body lift, but I wasn't expecting the guys at demello to tell me I didn't need a bodylift.
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Inv4drZm
Senior Member
You don't need a BL to fit 35's when wheeling, but it will make it easier. You'll want all the help you can get, especially when a BL isn't that expensive.
Demello had a 4th gen with a larger size of 35's he got to work, wheeling wise, without any BL. But it required lots of trimming. If you are okay with lots of trimming it can work apparently.
If you read this thread, you will see this guy ended up with a 1.25" bump stop spacer in the rear, and he already had a 1.5" BL.
Regardless of the BL, you will need to do an aggressive BMC, remove all mudflaps and trim behind where the mudflaps were on the front, and trim your stock bumper corners or get an aftermarket bumper. You will rub the stock UCA's and probably aftermarket UCA's without wheel spacers or offset wheels. You will need wider wheels according to tire manufacturer recommended widths. It will help to have adjustable lower links to move the rear axle back 1/4" to keep from rubbing the rear door. You will need to bash the crap out of everything with a BMFH. You will need to have a tolerance with dropped MPG and more downshifts on the highway. Unless you regear which is more $. You will need quality adjustable 2.5" coilovers and 2.5" rear shocks unless you want to blow through anything cheaper. Your brakes will need to be in tip-top shape. All of this so you have 1" more clearance on the trails, and cooler looks.
Or you could stick with 33's and only have to do half this stuff.
This is all for the trail, you shouldn't even try to run 35's high speed wheeling.
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4rcybr
New member
[MENTION=130999]Inv4drZm[/MENTION],
Thanks for a couple of those links. I'd read the 35s on a 4runner one before, but the other two were new to me. I need to go through that site a bit more thoroughly.
I've already got the bodymount chop, and what I feel is fairly significant trimming-though my presumption is I'll need to do a bit more. Well, I say 'I', but I'm probably going to have any more trimming done at Demello's or Yotamasters so that nothing actually important gets removed and ideally they can weld some sort of cover plate over top of everything.
Already have no mudflaps, an aftermarket bumper, adjustable lower link in the back and a UCA in the front.
I'm wondering about the gearing though... I'm at 4.56, and I know for 35s 4.88 is the standard (04 v6 came with 3.91 stock gear ratio with 265/65R17 tires), but I'm not sure its worth re-gearing at the moment. Also not planning on a front locker yet.
I do wonder what my MPG will be though. I know my computer/speedometer is off (should be about 7% off), but it currently shows me low 13s for MPG. Probably drop to 11 or 12? Sucks not being able to make it 300 miles on a tank, but there's not much can be done there.
Anyways, seeing Jason saying he was considering a 1" BL makes me feel a bit more confident-even if he isn't recommending that now.
In looking at 4crawler packages (Toyota 4Runner/Hilux Surf Body Lift Kit Pricing/Ordering Page) I'm pretty sure what I want is DD+HD+SE+RAD+CLR+CDOC. Though honestly I'm not 100% certain I've read it all correctly. That seem right to you?
Thanks!
Thanks for a couple of those links. I'd read the 35s on a 4runner one before, but the other two were new to me. I need to go through that site a bit more thoroughly.
I've already got the bodymount chop, and what I feel is fairly significant trimming-though my presumption is I'll need to do a bit more. Well, I say 'I', but I'm probably going to have any more trimming done at Demello's or Yotamasters so that nothing actually important gets removed and ideally they can weld some sort of cover plate over top of everything.
Already have no mudflaps, an aftermarket bumper, adjustable lower link in the back and a UCA in the front.
I'm wondering about the gearing though... I'm at 4.56, and I know for 35s 4.88 is the standard (04 v6 came with 3.91 stock gear ratio with 265/65R17 tires), but I'm not sure its worth re-gearing at the moment. Also not planning on a front locker yet.
I do wonder what my MPG will be though. I know my computer/speedometer is off (should be about 7% off), but it currently shows me low 13s for MPG. Probably drop to 11 or 12? Sucks not being able to make it 300 miles on a tank, but there's not much can be done there.
Anyways, seeing Jason saying he was considering a 1" BL makes me feel a bit more confident-even if he isn't recommending that now.
In looking at 4crawler packages (Toyota 4Runner/Hilux Surf Body Lift Kit Pricing/Ordering Page) I'm pretty sure what I want is DD+HD+SE+RAD+CLR+CDOC. Though honestly I'm not 100% certain I've read it all correctly. That seem right to you?
Thanks!
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
If anybody could get it to work without a BL, it would be Demello, so if you decide on that route (or even if you don't, like you mentioned), he would be able to hook you up as he's done it all before.
I would guess 4.56 would be fine for 35's. I don't know if I would even go that high when I get 35's way down the road from now, haven't done much research, but my 33's don't make my V8 hurt too much as is, and I might get a supercharger or something anyway... Try your current 4.56's with 35's and I think they will be fine.
Your BL list looks correct to me.
I would guess 4.56 would be fine for 35's. I don't know if I would even go that high when I get 35's way down the road from now, haven't done much research, but my 33's don't make my V8 hurt too much as is, and I might get a supercharger or something anyway... Try your current 4.56's with 35's and I think they will be fine.
Your BL list looks correct to me.
BlackWorksInc
New member
[MENTION=145222]4rcybr[/MENTION]
It depends on the quality of the kit, quality of the installation, and the overall set-up (a common theme I know.) The drop-bracket kits typically come with rather crappy generic shocks/springs (think generic ProComps, Ranchos, ect.) or they re-use the factory shocks with spacers on them. The most common thing I see is people running either factory shocks or generic quality ones with their drop-bracket lifts, very large/heavy tires, and improper tire pressure for the vehicle/set-up (i.e. chalk testing them); which often results in $350 a pop tires being cupped to hell in less than a few thousands miles and a blown shocks (or in some cases broken shocks, I had a picture of one such case I'll dig it up when I get a chance.) Though I have seen FJs and 4Runners with drop bracket lifts do fine as they upgraded the suspension accordingly when running those kits and they have no issues off-roading.
As [MENTION=130999]Inv4drZm[/MENTION] pointed out, it can be a lot of work to fit 35's. Though honestly I like my 35's and find them to be very capable. I think that the gain is a bit more than 1" as there's some difference in tires when they are aired down, also keep in mind that you gain about 1~2" width when going to a 35" tire vs. a 33". When off-roading with my buddy in his FJ he would joke "thanks for making it look easy Mr. 35's" as his FJ had less clearance when taking similar lines as me in case something shifted, so I think the 1" gain is probably a bit more (not something I can say for sure though). As for high-speed off-road driving, I haven't done any Baja~style 60mph+ jaunts; but the 2.5" shocks front and rear control the 35's very well.
But the trimming, adjusting, and prep-work to fit 35's and use them is a lot. You do need a strong suspension to deal with all that extra unsprung weight. Additionally you're gonna want to invest in some good UCA that will get you in the 5~6 degree caster range as you want to pull that tire away from the body mount (you'll get more rubbing on compression and turns under compression otherwise). 34's are probably a better compromise as they are a bit more forgiving in terms of not needing to trim and hammer stuff as much.
Fuel mileage... well that's subjective somewhat. On winter blend premium fuel up here I am averaging around 11mi in town, maybe higher on the freeway (but I don't usually do long trips anymore). That's on a stock 4.7L V8 with stock gears, so perhaps regearing would help increase that a bit.
It depends on the quality of the kit, quality of the installation, and the overall set-up (a common theme I know.) The drop-bracket kits typically come with rather crappy generic shocks/springs (think generic ProComps, Ranchos, ect.) or they re-use the factory shocks with spacers on them. The most common thing I see is people running either factory shocks or generic quality ones with their drop-bracket lifts, very large/heavy tires, and improper tire pressure for the vehicle/set-up (i.e. chalk testing them); which often results in $350 a pop tires being cupped to hell in less than a few thousands miles and a blown shocks (or in some cases broken shocks, I had a picture of one such case I'll dig it up when I get a chance.) Though I have seen FJs and 4Runners with drop bracket lifts do fine as they upgraded the suspension accordingly when running those kits and they have no issues off-roading.
As [MENTION=130999]Inv4drZm[/MENTION] pointed out, it can be a lot of work to fit 35's. Though honestly I like my 35's and find them to be very capable. I think that the gain is a bit more than 1" as there's some difference in tires when they are aired down, also keep in mind that you gain about 1~2" width when going to a 35" tire vs. a 33". When off-roading with my buddy in his FJ he would joke "thanks for making it look easy Mr. 35's" as his FJ had less clearance when taking similar lines as me in case something shifted, so I think the 1" gain is probably a bit more (not something I can say for sure though). As for high-speed off-road driving, I haven't done any Baja~style 60mph+ jaunts; but the 2.5" shocks front and rear control the 35's very well.
But the trimming, adjusting, and prep-work to fit 35's and use them is a lot. You do need a strong suspension to deal with all that extra unsprung weight. Additionally you're gonna want to invest in some good UCA that will get you in the 5~6 degree caster range as you want to pull that tire away from the body mount (you'll get more rubbing on compression and turns under compression otherwise). 34's are probably a better compromise as they are a bit more forgiving in terms of not needing to trim and hammer stuff as much.
Fuel mileage... well that's subjective somewhat. On winter blend premium fuel up here I am averaging around 11mi in town, maybe higher on the freeway (but I don't usually do long trips anymore). That's on a stock 4.7L V8 with stock gears, so perhaps regearing would help increase that a bit.
