Group buy : DC power Engineering 270amp alternator

[Jeffy]

I was going to ask you if you had checked to be sure you got the right 4R model. I remember from reading that thread there was a 'non-inventory' model that fit the new 4Rs.

So can you say what the overall difficulty is in installing. Let's say for the shade tree mechanic, no lift.

Do you have to pull a lot of stuff apart, or what exactly is the ordeal?

Glad you got squared away.

Yea, I can't really blame anyone but myself for not checking with DC Power first. I'm just happy they're taking care of me.

As far as getting the old alternator out, that was pretty damn simple for me. A suspension lift makes no difference, although my 1" body lift might have given me a slight advantage.

Install was pretty simple as others have mentioned, just super tight space to work in:
-disconnect negative battery cable, and remove all cables from alternator B terminal
-release tension on tensioner pulley to let serpentine belt slip off alternator pulley
-jack up car enough to take the driver side front wheel off (I lowered back down a bit afterwards to make it easier to reach into the engine bay.)
-remove skirt/ whatever you call that to access alternator from inside the wheel well
-remove the two bolts on the front of the alternator (easily accessed from the engine bay) but leave one in place to keep it from falling once the rear bolt is off
-remove the rear bolt on the alternator bracket, accessed through the wheel well. This one is what people have issues with. I have large hands and really had trouble getting into that space to work but eventually got it out. It looks like I stuck my hands down a garbage disposal though.
-Pull the alternator out, forward and up. Takes a good amount of wiggling. Be careful of the radiator hose and other lines in there. You'll need to pull the OEM harness off the alternator before getting too far, and you'll also have to remove the harness from where it attaches to the side of the alternator.

That's it. Install in reverse, the new alternator doesn't require the rear bolt (thank god). Follow DC Power instructions for what sequence to reconnect the power cables and OEM harness.

If I had the right alternator, I think I would have had this done in 90 minutes, definitely less than 2 hours. I'm a self-taught, backyard mechanic. It's really not difficult, just a pain to get to that one bolt.

 

[Jeffy]

Seems like ideally the solution here would be to replace the voltage regulator. These guys make one that allows selectable battery types.

Of course, the fuse is so much easier and cheaper solution, waiting to hear back to see if that fuse will allow for a fully charged battery. Anyone with a fuse check their AGM battery voltages after they know it's been fully charged from their vehicle and compare that with a full charge from an 110v wall AGM battery charger? Should be around 12.9 - 13 volts resting, correct? Should also note, if you install the fuse and then later put back an OEM battery, your probably going to overcharge that battery.

Power Accessories | Xantrex Alternator Regulator | Xantrex

I'm not sure where this confusion is coming from. Sure, the voltage helps. But most of us installing these are pulling well over 90 amps in some situations, which is what the stock alternator puts out at idle. It's impossible to remedy the issue of insufficient amperage just by adding a few more volts.

My AGM batteries both show 12.9 or 13 volts once the engine is turned off. The problem is not that I don't get enough voltage. The problem is that when I have everything running, my alternator is not putting out enough amperage.

 

[Airgazm]

I'm not sure where this confusion is coming from. Sure, the voltage helps. But most of us installing these are pulling well over 90 amps in some situations, which is what the stock alternator puts out at idle. It's impossible to remedy the issue of insufficient amperage just by adding a few more volts.

My AGM batteries both show 12.9 or 13 volts once the engine is turned off. The problem is not that I don't get enough voltage. The problem is that when I have everything running, my alternator is not putting out enough amperage.

What do you have on your rig that's pulling so much amps? A dead battery will pull 90 amps to recharge, but only for a short while. 90 amps sustained when you have your light bars, stereo and fridge on? That's crazy to think it takes that much, you checked this on a real alternator load tester? Like one of these, that you know reports the real amps being used, not some harbor freight thing? Basically what your saying is if you turn you accessories on, and wait, your 4runner will eventually go dead and die because the battery will drain faster than the stock alternator will charge it back up.

By the way, the confusion was that I replied to the wrong thread, was actually replying to the Voltage Booster for 31M AGM Battery thread but somehow replied here instead, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I4EzzU3Ix0

 

[Jeffy]

What do you have on your rig that's pulling so much amps? A dead battery will pull 90 amps to recharge, but only for a short while. 90 amps sustained when you have your light bars, stereo and fridge on? That's crazy to think it takes that much, you checked this on a real alternator load tester? Like one of these, that you know reports the real amps being used, not some harbor freight thing? Basically what your saying is if you turn you accessories on, and wait, your 4runner will eventually go dead and die because the battery will drain faster than the stock alternator will charge it back up.

By the way, the confusion was that I replied to the wrong thread, was actually replying to the Voltage Booster for 31M AGM Battery thread but somehow replied here instead, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I4EzzU3Ix0

Well yea. If I'm pulling more than 90 amps it'll go dead. My stock alternator is heavily whining and dropping voltage when I have everything turned on. It's starting to fail under these scenarios. I haven't even tried winching in these conditions and I don't think I want to try. With everything off and both batteries fully charged my alternator is fine, but start turning things on and it starts crying.

No I haven't tried it on a real load tester but why should I? It's failing and clearly can't handle what I'm throwing at it.

I think for many people that voltage mod is fine, but definitely not gonna work for me

 

[Airgazm]

Well yea. If I'm pulling more than 90 amps it'll go dead. My stock alternator is heavily whining and dropping voltage when I have everything turned on. It's starting to fail under these scenarios. I haven't even tried winching in these conditions and I don't think I want to try. With everything off and both batteries fully charged my alternator is fine, but start turning things on and it starts crying.

No I haven't tried it on a real load tester but why should I? It's failing and clearly can't handle what I'm throwing at it.

I think for many people that voltage mod is fine, but definitely not gonna work for me

Well the reason I would use one of those snap on load testers (available at most auto shops) would be to actually load test your alternator. They will provide the 130 amp load to your charging system and determine if your OEM alternator is not working fully properly.

That being said I just looked up light bars and see that they could be like 400 watts or more, that would be like 30 amps per light bar, so yeah you could hit 90 amps with a couple of those and the main lights. Winch is only for short hits so really only need some battery for those, but yeah the light bars would be used long term so you may in fact need that larger alternator now that I look at it.

Can't remember but did you have a fuse in your system to charge up your AGM to full?

 

[nglayton]

Still don't understand what the need for this high output alternator is for.

I don't have a good understanding of that either.

The reason I bought one was simple, although a multi-reason answer it was an easy decision for me.

1) Alternators fail. Eventually if you keep the rig long enough you will need to replace one.
2) Group buy sale price is hard to beat.
3) I have a dual battery setup.
4) If I have to eventually buy one anyway, why not get an upgrade at the same time for the GB price rather than pay more for less at a later date.
5) I like having spare parts on hand vs waiting for some parts guy to maybe have what I need to get me down the road.

Probably most important, I don't know if I 'NEED' it, but I sure do WANT IT BAD!

 

[Jeffy]

Well the reason I would use one of those snap on load testers (available at most auto shops) would be to actually load test your alternator. They will provide the 130 amp load to your charging system and determine if your OEM alternator is not working fully properly.

That being said I just looked up light bars and see that they could be like 400 watts or more, that would be like 30 amps per light bar, so yeah you could hit 90 amps with a couple of those and the main lights. Winch is only for short hits so really only need some battery for those, but yeah the light bars would be used long term so you may in fact need that larger alternator now that I look at it.

Can't remember but did you have a fuse in your system to charge up your AGM to full?

Well, with my stock alternator starting to fail I need to get a new one anyways. They sell for about 500 bucks or more brand new, so why not spend another 100 bucks or so to get this much nicer, much more capable alternator? I don't want to buy another stock one just to have it start failing in a few months because it can't handle the load.

As far as light bars and all, that's exactly what I was trying to say about pulling a lot from the system. I don't have anything too ridiculous but it all adds up. 55w Morimoto HIDs, Baja Design cornering lights at 40w, high beams at 50w, and LED light bar at 180w. Just with lighting alone I'm at nearly 30 amps. My stereo can pull over 1200w at full power, so even if I'm only running at half volume that's easily another 30 amps I'm pulling. That's 60 amps out of 90amps idle output. Plus fridge, etc.

I haven't replaced any fuses for the AGM, that's all stock. All I did was the "big 3" upgrade when doing my dual battery setup.

There was a time just recently where I had run down my aux battery a decent amount, and was using stereo, headlights, cornering lights, heater, fridge, and a few other things. I pulled up to a stoplight and heard my battery isolator disconnect when the engine reached idle (it disconnects when either battery drops below 12.8 volts). Confused, I checked my head unit (which is connected to the OBDII port) and it showed 12.4 volts running through the system :shocked::shocked:. I threw it in neutral and started high-revving it while shutting everything off, it took a minute before the voltage went back up to 13.3. I think the DC Power alternator is a must-have for me.

 

[tb-av]

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with all those reasons.

I mean if you need one or if you simply installing one for any reason, you might as well go for it. Especially at a discount price.


Honestly for all the dual setups, and everything I've read so far. I think the DC/DC charger may be the most cost effective, automated, and leave the OEM stuff as is, is the way to go.

If you buy a dual auto switch, that's about $150. Now you can throw a diode on and that $5 - $50. So $175 avg. and that setup is fooling the entire system.

The DC/DC is more expensive but it performs all those functions and you could hook Solar into it. So for $100 more you get a smart controller designed to fully charge whatever type battery you have without fooling your vehicle computer in any way. You can also get temp sensing, and remote switching.. so for about the price of a the top tier BlueSea Isolator you get everything.


It's not a fair comparison to a $25 diode setup but for $250 or so, you get a lot of features and if it fails you still have your standard setup and could keep a diode in your parts kit.

I mean if you going HO Alt or not. You might as well use all the water in the well. That's what it's there for.

 

[Jeffy]

I mean if you going HO Alt or not. You might as well use all the water in the well. That's what it's there for.

Absolutely. I read Cruisernet's post and it's very informative. I'll have to see what my battery voltages are once I get the new alternator installed. They should be around 14.4 with the engine off unless I'm being held back by something, in which case I'll consider the diode mod. I shouldn't have a problem since the DC Power alternator has a different regulator.

I'm not really sold on the DC/DC charger, although the ability to add solar is pretty nice. I mostly don't like those tiny little cables that are supplied with it and the fact that it only charges the aux at about 20amps or less. My dual battery system is connected with 1/0awg cables and a 200 amp fuse. I want to be able to recharge as quickly as possible.

 

[tb-av]

They should be around 14.4 with the engine off

12.8V with engine off. Also the DC/DC is low amps by design as you are basically just floating the batt at that point. You are topping it off. Low and slow.

The idea is to always have fully charged batts. Not heavily depleted.

Obviously if you run a batt. over night it's going to deplete some but..

Scenario 1 - improperly charged batt. never at full capacity. used overnight.

Scenario 2 - properly charged batt. at full charge most of the time. used overnight.

You are trying to get to Scenario 2 for longest battery life and best battery performance.

That's what the DC/DC does. It is a smart monitoring device. The diode is more like scenario 1. It will work but it's not the best method.

Scenario 3 would be where the AGM never charges proper because the car runs at 13.3 - 13.8 most of the time. that's a no win situation.

 

[Jeffy]

12.8V with engine off.

Oops that was a hasty post. I meant 14.4 with the engine running.

 

[LOLSNOW]

WARNING!
I want to update why I couldn't get mine to fit. I ordered the alternator with part # 11139-270XP, as referenced in the original post. However, there are two different cases for the 4th gen vs 5th gen. As referenced in this post, the actual part number is 11517-270-XP for the 5th gen. After speaking with DC Power today, they confirmed that the two part numbers are for the different gens. The only difference between the two is the frame. 4th gens have a "13" stamped near the mounting brackets (part 11139) vs 5th gens having a "14" stamped (part 11517).

Just wanted to put this out there for anybody else who stumbles across this thread and wants to buy one. Please call DC Power and verify you're getting the right part before going through what I did trying to get the wrong one to fit.

On another note, Bryan from DC Power gave me incredible customer service and helped me out immensely. I won't go into detail but he went out of his way to fix my situation, even though I bought the alternator from a different distributor. I've rarely had such good customer service from a company, I would recommend them to anybody.

Thanks for this! I ordered mine a few months back and got to installing it today. I confirmed that I needed 11517 via email but when it was shipped to me I got 11139. This sucks because I already took the OEM one out before I noticed I had the wrong one

 

[AsAkite]

Any chance of another group buy sometime in the near future?


:hug:

 

[gringo8251]

Any chance of another group buy sometime in the near future?


:hug:

I'm in on this if it happens.

 

[Boulderish]

I'm in on this if it happens.

I'm in too!

 

[TDMerrittPE]

Group Buy

I would also be interested. I have been investigating upgrading the Alternator.

 

[Maj_Beck]

Any chance of another group buy sometime in the near future?


:hug:

Not sure how the GB works, but if someone does organize another, I'll take one. Might need a dozen swivel sockets or a midget to install it but if anyone does organize a GB let us know

 

[funshot]

Not sure how the GB works, but if someone does organize another, I'll take one. Might need a dozen swivel sockets or a midget to install it but if anyone does organize a GB let us know

I've had a midget stored for this project for over a year now. I think I might have to return him soon....

 

[j0nb0n]

Any chance of another group buy sometime in the near future?


:hug:

I’m up for this! Regret not joining the original GB but money was tight at that time. Now I’m ready lol

 

[Narat_524]

I would be in for a GB if they ever had another

Narat