Has anyone pulled V6 engine from 4th Gen 4Runner?

[ysrsquid]

Re: Feeling your pain

Squid,

I'm new to the forumand have read your entire thread with great interest. I really really feel bad for you.

I do all my own oil changes and never had a oil filter seal blow. I normally use Wix, Hastings filters.

I would think that if the oil seal blew you shold have some recourse with the Mfg of the oil filter.

It would be very nice to know who's oil filter failed. you can bet I won't ever buy one.

I feel so bad for you that I want to come over and help you out. Of course that not possible as I'm in NJ.

Good luck and thanks for the info.


Don

Unfortunately I cannot find the failed oil filter. It was a brand I normally wouldn't have bought because the the brands that I normally use were not available in the correct size. I thought that I had kept the oil filter but it's gone.... So rather than naming the bad filter I can only name that it wasn't my normal brand which is Mobil 1. Just to be clear, it was not a Mobil 1 filter.

So for the update.... I plan on taking the crank to the machine shop tomorrow. The problem is that the standard bearings don't allow much variance in diameter. The Toyotas have an easy way of measuring tolerences so that the correct standard bearings can be selected (of 5 std sizes based on tolerence stack up). The problem is that my crank can be turned down only 0.0014" until the crank hits the minimum diameter for a standard bearing. I don't think that a machine shop can hold that type of tolerence without spending significant money. Also, even if the machine shop is able to turn the crank 0.0014" down, the question then is has the crank been turned enough to get rid of the scarring that occured when the bearings spun. I doubt it. Then the question would become is there enough of the bearing surface left for the engine to still run reliably and not have another bearing failure soon after the bearing replacement. Maybe the crank can be turned down more and then I get a set of bearings that fit but were designed for another car.

My cost estimates are also pretty quickly climbing (nothing spent yet other than my labor).

Basic Cost Estimates (best prices so far):
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings & Turn Crank: $1000
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings & Replace Crank: $1200
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings, Turn Crank, Replace Rings: $1200
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings, Replace Crank, Replace Rings: $1400
RETAIL PRICE: Replacement of bearings, crank, and rings: $1700

And guess what... (what?) I have found salvage motors starting at $1700.

 

[RickyCRX]

My honest opinion: Don't bother rebuilding it... Get a salvage engine that you know was running when a vehicle got crashed and know that it will run reliably for the next 200k miles without much drama.

Ricky

 

[Kmvreter]

Re: Re: Feeling your pain

... I don't think that a machine shop can hold that type of tolerence without spending significant money...

My cost estimates...
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings, Replace Crank, Replace Rings: $1400
RETAIL PRICE: Replacement of bearings, crank, and rings: $1700

And guess what... (what?) I have found salvage motors starting at $1700.

I agree on a machine shop not being able to turn the crank. So now the question is why are you looking at (piston) rings? Is there evidence of damage to the cylinder walls (if yes, then follow Ricky's advice to get another motor) or are you just playing it safe? I would do them plus the new crank & bearings if you can get the pistons out the bottom. Are all the oil journals free and clear of debris? Can you pull a piston to see if the valves are burned? Since you've gone this far how difficult would it be to pull the valve covers and assess the valve train? It would only cost a couple of gaskets (plus we need pics!)

 

[ysrsquid]

Re: Re: Re: Feeling your pain

I agree on a machine shop not being able to turn the crank. So now the question is why are you looking at (piston) rings? Is there evidence of damage to the cylinder walls (if yes, then follow Ricky's advice to get another motor) or are you just playing it safe? I would do them plus the new crank & bearings if you can get the pistons out the bottom. Are all the oil journals free and clear of debris? Can you pull a piston to see if the valves are burned? Since you've gone this far how difficult would it be to pull the valve covers and assess the valve train? It would only cost a couple of gaskets (plus we need pics!)

I included the costs for all of the parts (including rings) just so that everyone could see my options (and someday someone else's options).

When I pulled the motor my original plan was to replace the main and rod bearings. I didn't think that I would find significant engine damage beyond the bearings (since the engine still had good Compression Ratio).

If the only damage had been the bearings, I could have replaced all bearings for $500. For insurance, I could have also replaced the rings for additional $200. That to me seems like a pretty good value.

Once I got the crank out I found the spun bearings which had eaten the crank and the block. That significantly raises the cost of repairs. Crank repairs are $500 - $700. Engine block repairs haven't been estimated. I belive that I COULD clean up the caps and block myself with emmory cloth.

And then you get into the next issue.... debris in the engine. I posted an earlier picture (of cam lobe) of the residual metal particles in the oil. It makes the oil look gray or silver when the oil is a thin layer.

I also pulled the cam caps off last night to see what damage there was to the camshafts. Each of the cam caps has a 'cutout' which holds oil. The cutouts have captured metal shavings (looked like bearing material) which were moving thorugh the oil passageways.

So now I not only have damaged crank and block, I also have an unknown amount of metal shavings in the crevices of the motor.

As noted above by RickyCRX and Kmvreter, the path at this point is pretty obvious. The motor 'could' be rebuilt but it's not worth rebuilding. Time to start seriously looking for replacement motor.

Bluto had posted the http://www.car-part.com link. There are two 1GR-FE motors in Texas for under $1800. What do you want to bet that I'll be buying one of them?

Dave

 

[jharris2]

I agree, Dave, that your path is pretty obvious. No sense throwing good money into it when the replacement engine will be more cost-effective.

You still planning to give your wife the failed bearings for Valentine's Day??

 

[sharp4runr]

Yup, buy a new engine. You'll have a whole other engine for spare parts if ever needed...

 

[ysrsquid]

Motor #2

Picked up Engine #2 yesterday from Houston. The engine came out of a 4Runner that was crashed with 8,800 miles. I paid $2200 for the engine. I had found a engine in Dallas for $1700 but it had more miles and I figured that I would go for the engine with the fewest miles.

Here's the engine. Ready to drop back into the truck. At this point I just want to check the compression but it seems to have excellent compression. I plan to check the compression tomorrow and then begin the install hopefully tuesday nitght.

 

[RickyCRX]

Sounds like a great deal to me!

Good luck with the re-install. Hopefully everything will just start right back up on the first try and you'll be on your way again.

Ricky

 

[ysrsquid]

I forgot to mention... I had to use the old motor as a 'core' so unfortunately I don't have a whole motor's worth of spare parts. Also, I used every spare penny to pay for the engine so it looks like I'll use the engine as her Valentine's Day present. I'll keep the old shot bearings for myself and take them to work for show-and-tell.

 

[RickyCRX]

haha... I did that once... "Here's a big box of pieces for my core... Everything is there, you just have to put it back together yourself."

Ricky

 

[ysrsquid]

haha... I did that once... "Here's a big box of pieces for my core... Everything is there, you just have to put it back together yourself."

Ricky

How'd you know? You must have been there. It was pretty painful to hand over all of the carefully bubblewrapped and labeled parts from the old motor. I spent quite a bit of time protecting all those expensive internal bits. The junk yard basically took the boxes of parts to a scrap metal bin and dumped them in.

 

[RickyCRX]

Painful or not, I think you got a good deal on a super-low-mileage engine there.... You'll put that one in and never look back.

Just think how intimately you now know this vehicle inside and out. There's pretty much nothing you won't know how to fix in the engine bay at this point.

Ricky

 

[jharris2]

Sounds like your truck will be good as new soon.

 

[jeober]

I'm impressed with your mechanical skills. Good luck with the engine repair.

Love sure forgives a lot, doesn't it?

 

[ysrsquid]

Quick update from last night's progress...

Last night a buddy came over and we dropped the motor back into the 4Runner so the reinstall has begun.

I've also changed the oil and spun the motor to prime the oil system. I had the valve covers off at the time to see when I had oil to the heads. I was expecting seeping oil but instead there was a stream of oil that shot about 5 feet out of each front cam lobe. The engine looked like a fountain for a moment.

Note the new oil filter. No more generic filters for me!

Here's the motor back in the engine bay. There isn't anything hooked up to the engine yet (no exhaust, transmission, accessories, electrical harness...).

So with a little luck I'm shooting on getting the 4Runner running again on this long 3 day weekend.

And for those that have asked if I really am giving the destroyed bearings to my wife for Valentine's Day, I've decided that isn't in the best long term interest of the marrige. Instead she's getting flowers.

Later, Dave

 

[RickyCRX]

From my past experiences, it's usually better to hook up the wiring harnesses before putting the engine in...

Good luck getting everything wrapped up this weekend!

Ricky

 

[ysrsquid]

From my past experiences, it's usually better to hook up the wiring harnesses before putting the engine in...

Good luck getting everything wrapped up this weekend!

Ricky

I had originally wanted to pull the motor with the wiring harness but I couldn't figure out how to remove it from the firewall. I decided not to perform exploratory surgery on the dash to figure it out. At the time of engine removal I didn't have the Toyota manual so I didn't think about looking at the manual since I now have my notes and pictures from pulling the motor. But there it is... 'Partial Engine Assy - Replacement' on page 14-34 (of the '04 manual). It shows how to remove the wiring harness connectors from behind the glove box.

I guess that I'm not doing the harness the easy way this time (and hopefully there isn't a next time).

 

[jharris2]

Quick update from last night's progress...

Last night a buddy came over and we dropped the motor back into the 4Runner so the reinstall has begun.

I've also changed the oil and spun the motor to prime the oil system. I had the valve covers off at the time to see when I had oil to the heads. I was expecting seeping oil but instead there was a stream of oil that shot about 5 feet out of each front cam lobe. The engine looked like a fountain for a moment.

Note the new oil filter. No more generic filters for me!

Here's the motor back in the engine bay. There isn't anything hooked up to the engine yet (no exhaust, transmission, accessories, electrical harness...).


So with a little luck I'm shooting on getting the 4Runner running again on this long 3 day weekend.

And for those that have asked if I really am giving the destroyed bearings to my wife for Valentine's Day, I've decided that isn't in the best long term interest of the marrige. Instead she's getting flowers.

Later, Dave

Dave - it's looking good! Hope you finish the work this weekend.

And as far as not giving your wife the bearings, good move. She will probably be feeling bad about this one for a long time.

 

[ysrsquid]

So Where'd that Oil on the Floor Come from?

Bad News.

I went into the garage tonight to do some more assembly work and I was greeted with an oil puddle under the front of the engine. I couldn't tell where the oil was coming from so I pulled the harmonic balancer to see if the front main seal was leaking.

The F'ng harmonic balancer is cracked at the key.

The F'ng key looks like it is rolled over on the crankshaft. So now the motor is coming back out to see if this crankshaft is any good.

Pictures show crack in balancer. The brown stuff stuck in the crack is rubber from the front main seal.

 

[RickyCRX]

Wow... That must have been a REALLY hard hit to the front of that vehicle to have caused that damage. Did you happen to keep the other crank pulley from the old engine, or did you turn it in to them? If you gave them your good one, I would call them up and tell them to send you another one because this one was damaged and you purchased what should have been a good replacement.

I would be willing to bet that the crank is fine, but it's difficult to tell with that hard of a hit to the front of it.

Ricky