Has anyone pulled V6 engine from 4th Gen 4Runner?

[ysrsquid]

Wow... That must have been a REALLY hard hit to the front of that vehicle to have caused that damage. Did you happen to keep the other crank pulley from the old engine, or did you turn it in to them? If you gave them your good one, I would call them up and tell them to send you another one because this one was damaged and you purchased what should have been a good replacement.

I would be willing to bet that the crank is fine, but it's difficult to tell with that hard of a hit to the front of it.

Ricky

Fortunately I do still have the old balancer. I'm really concerned about the crank because when the key rolls over on the crank it 'could wallow' out the hole for the key to go in to.

So now the motor comes back out for and the front timing cover comes back off to check out the crank.

 

[RickyCRX]

Yeah, those woodruff keys are pretty damned stout -- they're made out of a VERY hard steel. The only thing you can hope for was that it rotated AFTER there was enough play from the collision breaking the crank pulley and hopefully didn't move after that point.

Ricky

 

[ysrsquid]

Is this Crank Repairable?

OK Guys, Motor #2 is out and here's the crankshaft with the damaged key. The key came out completely undamaged (definately hard metal). The harmonic balancer was cracked (as shown in previous pictures). The crank timing gear is cracked but that's OK because I have another one from the previous motor.

The big question is the crank OK? It's not bent. I currently can't get the crank timing gear off because when the key folded over it created a 'divot' in the crank's metal. I don't know if I should try to beat the crank down or try to grind it down.

I've called the junkyard where I got the motor and they know that there are possible problems so if the crank is no good then the motor goes back. I just really hate to give up a motor that has 8800 miles on it. Stupid Cranks.

Looking for suggestions... Dave

 

[RickyCRX]

I would personally be paranoid of grinding it down because if you do, then chances are they may not take the engine back because you did a 'modification' to it. I'd say to make them take it back, but ask them to replace it with another engine. Since they took your original one and threw it in a metal parts bin, they're not going to be able to give you your core back. Consequently they're either going to have to reimburse you for that core in addition to refunding your money for this engine, or they're going to have to bear the responsibility of finding you another one. I'd rather see you find a 15k mile engine out of a rollover that hasn't been damaged than to try to salvage that one. Either that or price a new crank and bearings from the dealer and have them refund you that amount of money...... That is, IF you feel like opening up the oil pan and replacing it yourself. Probably not worth your effort, though.

It's too bad I just saw your message now. We were just up in Austin (actually went all the way up to Round Rock) earlier today. I would have been curious to take a look at that a bit closer.

Ricky

 

[Kmvreter]

Re: Is this Crank Repairable?

The big question is the crank OK? It's not bent. I currently can't get the crank timing gear off because when the key folded over it created a 'divot' in the crank's metal. I don't know if I should try to beat the crank down or try to grind it down.

Bummer about the latest events.
Don't beat it. Just use a die grinder to take it down. Check the runout on the end of the crank and check for freeplay. Any signs of damage to the front of the block? Should be good to go!

 

[ysrsquid]

Re: Re: Is this Crank Repairable?

Bummer about the latest events.
Don't beat it. Just use a die grinder to take it down. Check the runout on the end of the crank and check for freeplay. Any signs of damage to the front of the block? Should be good to go!

I stoped working on the crank pin when I saw the extent of the damage. I'm in need of professional advice at this point. Too bad I found the issue on the weekend. All shops closed.

I don't see any runout. I don't have a gauge to put on the crank but I did spin the motor over with the starter and there is no visible runout. I don't think there is any damage beyond the wallowed out keyhole. I'll be taking pictures to a couple local shops to see what my options are. If the options are limited, then I have already warned the salvage yard that there are issues. I just don't want to return a motor with 8,800 miles.

I'd love to hear that someone could weld up the divot and then I could grind the keyhole back out. Or maybe the key could be permanantly welded into position....

 

[ysrsquid]

Motor #2 - "Return to Sender"

I talked with 2 mechanics and a machine shop about the crank's damage from the key. The professional opinion is unanimous, "Crank is Junk."

I showed the machinist crank #1 with the spun bearings and he said that the crank could be turned and installed into motor #2 for around $500. But since I am under the 'warranty' period of motor number #2 I decided to let the salvage yard in Houston know the bad news. After talking with the owner it doesn't sound like he was suprised the crank was toast. I had talked to him on Friday so I think that he was expecting the bad news also. He's asked for a couple of days to find Engine #3.

I did find a couple of threads for repairing the crankshaft key. The links may do someone some good. I decided not to perform any repairs on a motor that's under warranty.

Link 1
Link 2

So much for gettng truck running over President's Day weekend. Dave.

 

[jharris2]

Hate to hear that it won't be running today, but better to take the time and do it right with all the time you're investing.

 

[ysrsquid]

Engine #3 Found

Great news. The salvage yard in Houston called. They have found the replacement (for the replacement) motor. They've bought a salvage '06 Tacoma. They owner of the salvage yard didn't know how many miles but the enginge came from a LA truck that cought fire in the rear. The salvage truck arrives in Houston either Saturday or Monday. The motor will be available as soon as Saturday or as late as Tuesday.

It's going to be tough breaking free from work to go to Houston for personal business.... but I may be coming (cough, cough) down with a 24hr flu or something!

 

[RickyCRX]

For all the trouble they put you through, I'd tell them to put it in the back of a pickup truck and take a drive to Austin and pick up the broken one while they're at it.

Ricky

 

[jharris2]

For all the trouble they put you through, I'd tell them to put it in the back of a pickup truck and take a drive to Austin and pick up the broken one while they're at it.

Ricky

:iagree:

 

[jharris2]

Re: Engine #3 Found

Great news. The salvage yard in Houston called. They have found the replacement (for the replacement) motor. They've bought a salvage '06 Tacoma. They owner of the salvage yard didn't know how many miles but the enginge came from a LA truck that cought fire in the rear. The salvage truck arrives in Houston either Saturday or Monday. The motor will be available as soon as Saturday or as late as Tuesday.

It's going to be tough breaking free from work to go to Houston for personal business.... but I may be coming (cough, cough) down with a 24hr flu or something!

Take care of that cough... don't want it to get in the way of you fixing the truck

 

[wolfgang]

Here's V6 4L one on the local DC Craig's list from an '03 LTD for $800 - says 55k miles on it.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/282703874.html

 

[ysrsquid]

Here's V6 4L one on the local DC Craig's list from an '03 LTD for $800 - says 55k miles on it.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/pts/282703874.html

Thanks for the Link. I have sent the guy a email just in case the motor in Houston falls through again. Sure is an awesome deal for a motor. Dave

 

[ysrsquid]

Quick Update - No Motor Yet

Just a quick update for anyone who's enjoying following my slow trek back to a running 4Runner.

The salvage yard called earlier this week and said they didn't think that the heads would be good on the replacement motor. The fire that totalled the vehicle did make it into the engine compartment (shock!) and they didn't think that the motor is salvageable. At this point we (the owner of the salvage yard and I) are considering taking the crank out of the burned motor and placing it into the motor that I have with the damaged crank. Of course the decision will definately include a rebate on my original $2,200 that I paid for the motor. I'm thinking that he should knock off $500 to cover my labor and replacement bearings for the motor.

Check back soon to see how much worse it can get! Later, Dave

 

[RickyCRX]

Or better yet... Have him take both engines to a machine shop and save you the labor... They made the mistake in the first place, why should you have to go through even more work? You've already had to pull the replacement engine back out after you put it in the vehicle.

Either that or tell him to find you another engine.

Ricky

 

[ysrsquid]

Engine #3 In Truck

For anyone who's been checking in to hear the latest on this FUN joy through automotive repair... I have Engine #4. I'll refer to the burned motor that the salvage yard never gave me as #3. I did see it Saturday when I went to pick up #4. I'm pretty sure that the owner of the salvage yard picked up the burned Toyota Tocoma just for the motor to give to me. There wasn't much that I considered salvagable when I saw the truck. Fortunately for me (but not for the owner) he didn't consider the motor servicable so he had to find motor #4.

It was interesting to stop by this large junk yard in Houston and see: my original motor without crankshaft, motor #2 which I was returning with the damaged keyway in the crank, the remants of the 4Runner that motor #2 came from (nothing left), Engine #3 with smoke damage (I think that it was good.... just overcooked. It needed intake and injectors). Truck #3 - rolled and burned and useless. And finally... Motor #4 from donor 05 4Runner. Lots of Toyotas all there because we kept having problems with my engine.

So Saturday I gave back Engine #2 for Engine #4. Engine #4 really looks brand new. When we pulled the valve covers I really kind of thought that it was a new crate motor. It was dry (gravity had pulled all of the oil out of the heads back down into the oil pan). There was absolutely no damage to the motor and it looks as if it was POLISHED it was so clean. I'm not sure how someone got the motor that clean but they did....

I drove the motor back to Austin (in the back of a Honda Oddessy - fits good!) and dropped the engine in Saturday night. I finished off the evening by cooking Fajitas on the grill. This may be a bit off topic but I'm a master of the flame. I can cook up a storm on the grill. Nothing like perfect, juicy fajitas at 11PM to completely knock ya' out and put you in bed by 12PM.

I have found only 1 difference between the 04 and 05 motor. The cam position sensor has a metal plate attached to the front of the intake cam. The cam position signal is used for injector and ignition timing (along with the crank position sensor). The problem is that the '04 and '05 "gears" on the end of the cam are not even remotely similar. The '04 unit looks like a triagle with small points at the ends of the triangles. The '05 has much more material. I can't describe it better. I'll add pictures later. I tried to cross reference the pattern of the gear against the signal expected by the computer and the 04 just really doesn't match. I sketched out how I would expec the '05 motor's signal to look AND I'LL BE DAM^ED... THEY MATCHED. I was able to take my sketch and compare it to the expected signal of the cam position sensor. Once I scaled them, they were an excellent fix considering that I freehanded the '05 gear without any tools other than pen and paper...

IF ANYONE CAN CONFIRM THAT THE '05 MOTOR WORKS IN A '04 4RUNNER EVEN WITH THE DIFFERENT CAM POSITION GEAR PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
04 Cam Position Sensor

05 Cam Position Sensor

So hopefully tomorrow Toyota can confirm that I can use an 05' motor with a 04' computer. It will REALLY SUCK to have to install the '04 cam position gears into the '05 motor because the gear is mounted by the bolt that mounts the cam chain gear onto the cam. In order to take the cam chain gear off I'll probably have to remove the timing cover which means that I'll probably remove the oil cover, which means that I've got a lot of work just because the '04 and '05 have a different piece of sheetmetal for a sensor.

BTW - I'm sure that the salvage yard will be taking motor #2 (bad crank) and motor #3 (fire damage) and making 1 good motor. I actually made a similar offer to the salvage yard. I really didn't want to get ripped off but I also didn't want to take all the risks. My offer to the yard was that I would take the burnt motor (#3) but I could keep the motor with bad crank (#2) for parts in case anything happened to motor #3. My plan was that I could drop #3 in and it would be ok after replacing the intake and injectors. Motor #3 could then be repaired (see links I included on repairing crank keyhole). I figured that this would be a deal that the salvage yard would still go for. But in the end they found motor #4 (from another shop) and got back motors #2 and #3.

Hopefully it works out for all.

 

[RickyCRX]

Wow... I'm still interested in hearing how this progresses. I don't have an answer for you on that cam sensor, but hopefully it will work and you can just get it wired up and working with the '05 sensor. I really doubt they would change that much between the years. The only real difference between '04 and '05 was the change in transmission from a 4-speed to a 5-speed on the V6 models.

Ricky

 

[Kmvreter]

Wow... I'm still interested in hearing how this progresses... I don't have an answer for you on that cam sensor, but hopefully it will work and you can just get it wired up and working with the '05 sensor. I really doubt they would change that much between the years. The only real difference between '04 and '05 was the change in transmission from a 4-speed to a 5-speed on the V6 models.

Ricky

Yeah, we're still interested.

The tranny difference was the only thing I could think of. Not sure why they would make changes like that sensor when the engine was only 2 years old at the time.

The tranny change is the thing preventing me from changing the ECU in order to upgrade the cruise control (so the speed stays in memory) but that is a whole other soapbox issue. Let us know how the '04 tranny bolts up to the '05 engine. If I ever blow the tranny (should never happen in a Toy) I'll upgrade to the 5 spd.

Good luck.

 

[tkr128]

I'm not sure if this will help you but I found some differences between the '04 and '05 V6 models:

2004 Evaporative Emission Controls:
Using 3 VSVs and a vapor pressure sensor, the ECM detects any evaporative emission leakage occurring between the fuel tank and the charcoal canister through changes in the fuel tank pressure.

2005 Evaporative Emission Controls:
Approximately five hours after the ignition switch has been turned OFF, the ECM operates the leak detection pump to detect any evaporative emission leakage occurring between the fuel tank and the charcoal canister through changes in the
fuel tank pressure.

Plus, a few more 2005 V6 new features:
1GR-FE Engine

The tailpipe emission regulation has been changed from ULEV to LEVII-ULEV.

To comply with the LEVII-ULEV tailpipe emission regulations, the capacity of the catalysts that are
provided in the exhaust manifold and the front pipe has been changed.

The VVT sensor has been changed from a pick-up type to a MRE (Magnetic Resistance Element) type.

The oxygen sensor has been changed from a planar type to a cup type.

The evaporative emission control system has been changed in order to comply with the LEV-II
evaporative emission regulations.