Hate the new tax plan?

D - tax and spend.
R - tax cut and spend.

Amazing what people will support as long their team is doing it.

Yep options right now are 200 MPH towards a cliff with D's or 175 MPH towards a cliff with R's.

It's incredible how ignorant and retarded people are. Basically this nation is a bunch of kids voting for Santa Clause to give them "free" shit.

The politicians learned long ago to pit us against one another and play for the same team with slight differences to keep fomenting the vitriol and hate between the masses.

Panem Et Circensus

Keep people entertained and fed just enough and you can turn them into your slaves and milk them for all they are worth.

I hope people wake up sooner rather than later.
 
Gunslinger-13 your spot on with your data and the outcome.
There is a solution to the problem in my mind.
What do you think is the fix?

I would like the fix to be at the ballot box. With real reform, as I've mentioned earlier in this thread- especially term limits for Congress.

We need career politicians gaming the system like we need a knife in the back.

We need a renaissance in this Nation. One where folks wake up, turn off the TV, turn on their brains and unite with their fellow man over our shared future and common interests.

We have more to fight together for than we have to fight against one another for.
 
I think the whole country agrees that we need term limits, but no politicians going to kill their golden goose (tax payers).
 
I had heard somewhere along the line that American politicians were volunteers and basically held office temporarily. Like blacksmiths and farmers and doctors and people from the community would be making these decisions. Then would step down and go back to work. Now it's a disaster. It's a good ole boys club where some jackass's grandson is running a state.

I've said it countless times here already that they're all terrible and selfish. But how can we stop this? Even posting up on this forum can add you to a list to be watched somewhere for even mentioning revolt.

The time to stand was during the 2008 bailout charade. We should have united for a nationwide walk out. Nobody goes to work. Teachers, lawyers, dentists, garbage men, mechanical engineers, receptionists, bus drivers, city workers, truck drivers, military, secret service, EVERYONE. Every single person gets on board and just stops working. Imagine what one day of that would do, let alone a week or month.

The power of greed is what has always brought down democracies. Honor and integrity is all that is needed and mankind can live in harmony forever. How sad is it that we claim to be so evolved, yet base our existence on a fictional number on some screen. Hilarious.
 
Really power house?

Probably why I keep seeing so many people moving to WA, OR, CO, and TX from CA... and why Seattle and Portland have become dumping grounds of people sick of living in San Francisco.

Still the top in GDP. Of course you can find where California will drop across a quarter when looking at specific industries like mining and adjusting for inflation and deflation. You can play with numbers to support a stat/position. I'll just say it's still at the top of the heap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP

I might very well be one of those to leave cali and move to those wonderful states and congest them just like California.
 
Again with the side choosing and labeling. Some things never change.

What's the counterpart to lib-tards?
Con-dicks? (Patent pending). Your political intolerances are growing old.

But disagreeing with you (regardless of any arguement) is too much fun to pass up. It's so easy to just disagree and not even consider any other viewpoint, hence perpetuating the cycle of immaturity, hatred and staunch closemindedness which has kept this country afloat for so long.

It's speaks greatly to one's character when one only chooses to be surrounded by people of their own mindset.

Need some aloe?
 
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I'd like to know about those perfect ideas.


Alright I'll bite. It's going to be a long read, so unless you're serious, I wouldn't waste your time.

Disclaimer: This needs to be considered without ego and without any thoughts of how it would directly affect yourself as the current situation stands; after all this is all make believe. An open mind is key. Read this, stew on it, and then perhaps pass along some constructive ideas. The negatively judgemental comments will be ignored based on immaturity.

1) the world's population is too high. There is a sweet spot of people this planet can habitate comfortably based on our levels of consumption and we've passed it. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but I'm fairly certain we've more than doubled it. (This goes beyond greenhouse gasses and fossil fuels, and has more to do with land/area and levels of sanitation etc) So for this imaginary example, the Earth has a significantly lower population.

2) the BIG issue with humans is that pesky ego. We have so much pride that we cannot even let someone else think of another idea without automatically judging it based on how you would become affected. So in my world, there is only acceptance and not judgement. (Keep in mind, by judging this writing in a harsh way you've proven my point, and by me even witting that last sentence I've proven my ego. It's a slick slope but hey it's all imaginary right?)

3) the end game is that there is no money. No currency. But that's too big of a step for people. Especially the ones who have worked so hard to add to their bank account. So we start with a salary cap. This cap is high. For someone who has worked blue collar their whole life, it's beyond comfortable. The ballpark I throw out is around $250,000 per year. As someone who is born and raised and works in the CA Bay Area (one of the most expensive places on earth if I'm not mistaken) there is absolutely no reason why you can't live completely comfortable within that amount of money. My wife an I combine to make less than $120,000 and we own (mortgage payment but you get it) a 5 year old home and 3 reasonable cars, have zero debt otherwise and eat 3 squares a day.

4) here's a big one: responsibity. There needs to be responsibility not just for yourself, but for those around you. (Didn't the bible say "I am my borther's keeper"?). Let me place out an analogy: I work in a medium sized industrial type shop which could be argued as being a very small civilization consisting of various viewpoints, backgrounds and hierarchies. When I'm grinding something, I wear safety glasses and ear plugs. Not only that, I check around myself to see if the sparks I'm about to shoot are going to hit anybody. And furthermore, if I see someone who is about to grind without glasses, I remind them to put on glasses. Everyone wins in that scenario. So expand that to the nation. I'm not saying you drive around throwing hundreds out of the window in the ghetto, but there needs to be at least some level of responsibity taken that those ghettos are there because somebody prior overcharged the rent 3 generations ago and perpetuated the greed...

5) which brings me to the next point. Greed is ridiculous. I'm no saint. But man these people that sit on literal piles of money is crazy. So in my la-la land, greed no longer exists. Once you have enough, you stop wanting more more more and consuming consuming consuming taking taking taking. It ends when you have enough, which again is first limited to #4 above.

6) next issue is "what if I make more than that?". Well then there are 2 options: you either stop working and take the rest of the year off as vacation or relax time, OR (insert gasp here) you work for free! And you know why? Because in my dream land of sunshine and lollipops everyone has a job/career they not only love, but are also good at! So at that level of happiness where (1) there is less crowding, therefore less demand for goods and services (2) you have no ego (3) you've made enough to pay all your bills and live comfortably (4) youve accepted responsibility for yourself and those around you as well are taken care of (employees, family etc) and (5) you aren't greedy beyond that. Therefore there is no reason to work beyond or need more money, other than sheer greed.

7) We have a completely transparent electronic money system. And this is so that the population can see, any transaction, any time, any where from anybody to anybody else in the world. This eliminates back door dealings and corruptedness. (Keep in mind the ego and greed thing really need to go away). Now that you or I can go see how senator so-and-so gained a $1.5 million contribution from a Chinese company, that Senator might be less apt to accept such a deal.

8) Free workforce, waaay down the line. Eventually everyone would find what they're good at AND love doing (that second part is key here). Whether it's being a doctor, lawyer, carpenter, plumber whatever. And because every human is good at AND loves what they do, they no longer need to get paid. Let me spell it out in an over simplified way: the carpenter starts framing up a house after the mason poured foundation. The carpenter loves doing it and has framed tons of houses. He has framed up his own house, his neighbor's house and his family's houses. When he's done, the plumber is going to come through and plumb it for free. You know why? Because the carpenter is framing up the plumber's house next. And the electrician's house after that. So the electrician comes in and wires up the house for free, knowing his home is almost built. And the cycle keeps going and expanding to garbage men, lawyers, doctors, truck drivers, farmers yadda yadda. Wouldn't it be nice to just help each other?

9) now we have no need for money. Using my shop as an example, when I need help, any guy will help me. Doesn't matter big job or small job he helps. Doesn't take a tally of how much help and it doesn't matter when I help him next time if it's at the same level of assistance. So there isn't a "bank" of owes and owed, debts and debtors at all. Because we'll all on the same team, for the same goal. Just like this planet. We don't need money in my creation of utopia because again, there's no greed, no ego, and everyone is contributing.

That's about all I have for now. I'm literally sitting in my work parking lot typing this on my phone. If I think of any further additions I'll put them in. But that's the foundation.

Yes, I know it's imaginary. Yes its outlandish and yes it's different. But I warned everyone it wasn't going to be real. And I'd argue the ego is what makes it so. Just the nature of the beast.
 
Alright I'll bite. It's going to be a long read, so unless you're serious, I wouldn't waste your time.

Disclaimer: This needs to be considered without ego and without any thoughts of how it would directly affect yourself as the current situation stands; after all this is all make believe. An open mind is key. Read this, stew on it, and then perhaps pass along some constructive ideas. The negatively judgemental comments will be ignored based on immaturity.

1) the world's population is too high. There is a sweet spot of people this planet can habitate comfortably based on our levels of consumption and we've passed it. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but I'm fairly certain we've more than doubled it. (This goes beyond greenhouse gasses and fossil fuels, and has more to do with land/area and levels of sanitation etc) So for this imaginary example, the Earth has a significantly lower population.

2) the BIG issue with humans is that pesky ego. We have so much pride that we cannot even let someone else think of another idea without automatically judging it based on how you would become affected. So in my world, there is only acceptance and not judgement. (Keep in mind, by judging this writing in a harsh way you've proven my point, and by me even witting that last sentence I've proven my ego. It's a slick slope but hey it's all imaginary right?)

3) the end game is that there is no money. No currency. But that's too big of a step for people. Especially the ones who have worked so hard to add to their bank account. So we start with a salary cap. This cap is high. For someone who has worked blue collar their whole life, it's beyond comfortable. The ballpark I throw out is around $250,000 per year. As someone who is born and raised and works in the CA Bay Area (one of the most expensive places on earth if I'm not mistaken) there is absolutely no reason why you can't live completely comfortable within that amount of money. My wife an I combine to make less than $120,000 and we own (mortgage payment but you get it) a 5 year old home and 3 reasonable cars, have zero debt otherwise and eat 3 squares a day.

4) here's a big one: responsibity. There needs to be responsibility not just for yourself, but for those around you. (Didn't the bible say "I am my borther's keeper"?). Let me place out an analogy: I work in a medium sized industrial type shop which could be argued as being a very small civilization consisting of various viewpoints, backgrounds and hierarchies. When I'm grinding something, I wear safety glasses and ear plugs. Not only that, I check around myself to see if the sparks I'm about to shoot are going to hit anybody. And furthermore, if I see someone who is about to grind without glasses, I remind them to put on glasses. Everyone wins in that scenario. So expand that to the nation. I'm not saying you drive around throwing hundreds out of the window in the ghetto, but there needs to be at least some level of responsibity taken that those ghettos are there because somebody prior overcharged the rent 3 generations ago and perpetuated the greed...

5) which brings me to the next point. Greed is ridiculous. I'm no saint. But man these people that sit on literal piles of money is crazy. So in my la-la land, greed no longer exists. Once you have enough, you stop wanting more more more and consuming consuming consuming taking taking taking. It ends when you have enough, which again is first limited to #4 above.

6) next issue is "what if I make more than that?". Well then there are 2 options: you either stop working and take the rest of the year off as vacation or relax time, OR (insert gasp here) you work for free! And you know why? Because in my dream land of sunshine and lollipops everyone has a job/career they not only love, but are also good at! So at that level of happiness where (1) there is less crowding, therefore less demand for goods and services (2) you have no ego (3) you've made enough to pay all your bills and live comfortably (4) youve accepted responsibility for yourself and those around you as well are taken care of (employees, family etc) and (5) you aren't greedy beyond that. Therefore there is no reason to work beyond or need more money, other than sheer greed.

7) We have a completely transparent electronic money system. And this is so that the population can see, any transaction, any time, any where from anybody to anybody else in the world. This eliminates back door dealings and corruptedness. (Keep in mind the ego and greed thing really need to go away). Now that you or I can go see how senator so-and-so gained a $1.5 million contribution from a Chinese company, that Senator might be less apt to accept such a deal.

8) Free workforce, waaay down the line. Eventually everyone would find what they're good at AND love doing (that second part is key here). Whether it's being a doctor, lawyer, carpenter, plumber whatever. And because every human is good at AND loves what they do, they no longer need to get paid. Let me spell it out in an over simplified way: the carpenter starts framing up a house after the mason poured foundation. The carpenter loves doing it and has framed tons of houses. He has framed up his own house, his neighbor's house and his family's houses. When he's done, the plumber is going to come through and plumb it for free. You know why? Because the carpenter is framing up the plumber's house next. And the electrician's house after that. So the electrician comes in and wires up the house for free, knowing his home is almost built. And the cycle keeps going and expanding to garbage men, lawyers, doctors, truck drivers, farmers yadda yadda. Wouldn't it be nice to just help each other?

9) now we have no need for money. Using my shop as an example, when I need help, any guy will help me. Doesn't matter big job or small job he helps. Doesn't take a tally of how much help and it doesn't matter when I help him next time if it's at the same level of assistance. So there isn't a "bank" of owes and owed, debts and debtors at all. Because we'll all on the same team, for the same goal. Just like this planet. We don't need money in my creation of utopia because again, there's no greed, no ego, and everyone is contributing.

That's about all I have for now. I'm literally sitting in my work parking lot typing this on my phone. If I think of any further additions I'll put them in. But that's the foundation.

Yes, I know it's imaginary. Yes its outlandish and yes it's different. But I warned everyone it wasn't going to be real. And I'd argue the ego is what makes it so. Just the nature of the beast.


So, do you have any ideas that would actually work in REALITY?

Anyone can make a list of "stuff: that is fantasy and fun to think about, but how could any of this be implemented?

Your whole list would only work if we change the very nature of our humanity.

And I'm not talking about changing the way we "think" or having an "awakening"- I'm talking we would literally have to change ourselves genetically into something completely different.

Our nature is hardwired in our DNA, that DNA evolves and expresses itself through our interactions with the physical world and other beings- but it isn't something we can just up and change without actual hard manipulation of our genes.

And before you go there- this isn't my "ego" "judging" anything, it's the very reality of our existence in this Universe.

So what is "Enough" money? That's subjective. Enough for one person may not be nearly enough for another and way too much for the next cat in line.

The biggest issue with what you have posited other than it has no basis in reality of ever working is that it seeks to LIMIT people and take away their choice.

Again, something that goes against our human nature. And something that runs counter to the idea of Liberty.

Think of the war on drugs. We spend Billions of dollars trying to get people to stop doing drugs. It will NEVER happen. The will of our very nature is to escape, through meditation, books, music, drugs, etc.

in fact, the war on drugs actually had the opposite effect and more people do MORE DRUGS now than when it was implemented!

It's like fighting a war on sex. It is hardwired in our DNA too procreate and we are lucky enough that in order to keep us procreating, it feels great to do so. That ensures we keep doing it.

You could put $100 Trillion a year to fight people having sex and it would never work.

People gonna people bro. Human nature binds us all.

This "No money" "everything is free" is just ridiculous. Even in your very example people are trading their skill for another's. It's the same as trading money for that skill that you earned through trading your skills for money.

So what if the plumber has a bigger home than the framer or electricians- meaning more to frame and supply electricity to- does that mean he just plumbs more lines than necessary to the electricians and framers home?

Framing a home doesn't take as much skill as properly plumbing or electrifying it does, so why should they be traded as "even"?

There is no "free" in this world except our own freedom of action, and even then there are consequences to our actions.

I would focus your energy on doing something realistic to change the world in a way you deem positive, because your list is pure fairy tale and completely intangible.

I am an incredibly open minded person, but that doesn't change the reality we inhabit or our very nature as human beings.
 
Alright I'll bite. It's going to be a long read, so unless you're serious, I wouldn't waste your time.

Disclaimer: This needs to be considered without ego and without any thoughts of how it would directly affect yourself as the current situation stands; after all this is all make believe. An open mind is key. Read this, stew on it, and then perhaps pass along some constructive ideas. The negatively judgemental comments will be ignored based on immaturity.

1) the world's population is too high. There is a sweet spot of people this planet can habitate comfortably based on our levels of consumption and we've passed it. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but I'm fairly certain we've more than doubled it. (This goes beyond greenhouse gasses and fossil fuels, and has more to do with land/area and levels of sanitation etc) So for this imaginary example, the Earth has a significantly lower population.

2) the BIG issue with humans is that pesky ego. We have so much pride that we cannot even let someone else think of another idea without automatically judging it based on how you would become affected. So in my world, there is only acceptance and not judgement. (Keep in mind, by judging this writing in a harsh way you've proven my point, and by me even witting that last sentence I've proven my ego. It's a slick slope but hey it's all imaginary right?)

3) the end game is that there is no money. No currency. But that's too big of a step for people. Especially the ones who have worked so hard to add to their bank account. So we start with a salary cap. This cap is high. For someone who has worked blue collar their whole life, it's beyond comfortable. The ballpark I throw out is around $250,000 per year. As someone who is born and raised and works in the CA Bay Area (one of the most expensive places on earth if I'm not mistaken) there is absolutely no reason why you can't live completely comfortable within that amount of money. My wife an I combine to make less than $120,000 and we own (mortgage payment but you get it) a 5 year old home and 3 reasonable cars, have zero debt otherwise and eat 3 squares a day.

4) here's a big one: responsibity. There needs to be responsibility not just for yourself, but for those around you. (Didn't the bible say "I am my borther's keeper"?). Let me place out an analogy: I work in a medium sized industrial type shop which could be argued as being a very small civilization consisting of various viewpoints, backgrounds and hierarchies. When I'm grinding something, I wear safety glasses and ear plugs. Not only that, I check around myself to see if the sparks I'm about to shoot are going to hit anybody. And furthermore, if I see someone who is about to grind without glasses, I remind them to put on glasses. Everyone wins in that scenario. So expand that to the nation. I'm not saying you drive around throwing hundreds out of the window in the ghetto, but there needs to be at least some level of responsibity taken that those ghettos are there because somebody prior overcharged the rent 3 generations ago and perpetuated the greed...

5) which brings me to the next point. Greed is ridiculous. I'm no saint. But man these people that sit on literal piles of money is crazy. So in my la-la land, greed no longer exists. Once you have enough, you stop wanting more more more and consuming consuming consuming taking taking taking. It ends when you have enough, which again is first limited to #4 above.

6) next issue is "what if I make more than that?". Well then there are 2 options: you either stop working and take the rest of the year off as vacation or relax time, OR (insert gasp here) you work for free! And you know why? Because in my dream land of sunshine and lollipops everyone has a job/career they not only love, but are also good at! So at that level of happiness where (1) there is less crowding, therefore less demand for goods and services (2) you have no ego (3) you've made enough to pay all your bills and live comfortably (4) youve accepted responsibility for yourself and those around you as well are taken care of (employees, family etc) and (5) you aren't greedy beyond that. Therefore there is no reason to work beyond or need more money, other than sheer greed.

7) We have a completely transparent electronic money system. And this is so that the population can see, any transaction, any time, any where from anybody to anybody else in the world. This eliminates back door dealings and corruptedness. (Keep in mind the ego and greed thing really need to go away). Now that you or I can go see how senator so-and-so gained a $1.5 million contribution from a Chinese company, that Senator might be less apt to accept such a deal.

8) Free workforce, waaay down the line. Eventually everyone would find what they're good at AND love doing (that second part is key here). Whether it's being a doctor, lawyer, carpenter, plumber whatever. And because every human is good at AND loves what they do, they no longer need to get paid. Let me spell it out in an over simplified way: the carpenter starts framing up a house after the mason poured foundation. The carpenter loves doing it and has framed tons of houses. He has framed up his own house, his neighbor's house and his family's houses. When he's done, the plumber is going to come through and plumb it for free. You know why? Because the carpenter is framing up the plumber's house next. And the electrician's house after that. So the electrician comes in and wires up the house for free, knowing his home is almost built. And the cycle keeps going and expanding to garbage men, lawyers, doctors, truck drivers, farmers yadda yadda. Wouldn't it be nice to just help each other?

9) now we have no need for money. Using my shop as an example, when I need help, any guy will help me. Doesn't matter big job or small job he helps. Doesn't take a tally of how much help and it doesn't matter when I help him next time if it's at the same level of assistance. So there isn't a "bank" of owes and owed, debts and debtors at all. Because we'll all on the same team, for the same goal. Just like this planet. We don't need money in my creation of utopia because again, there's no greed, no ego, and everyone is contributing.

That's about all I have for now. I'm literally sitting in my work parking lot typing this on my phone. If I think of any further additions I'll put them in. But that's the foundation.

Yes, I know it's imaginary. Yes its outlandish and yes it's different. But I warned everyone it wasn't going to be real. And I'd argue the ego is what makes it so. Just the nature of the beast.

I need to apologize to Hikenbike...YOU are one crazy mofo! Hikenbike takes a seat behind you. Your fantasy is not outlandish...it is plainly stupid to be honest.

Just think...a grown man actually wrote all that...OMG! WTF?!
 
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I agree with all the disagreements. It is an absolute excersise in imagination. It's just sad that so many see it as intangible. Living within one's means and being satisfied with some amount of "enough" isn't enough. It scares people to try something different.

The hard wired aspect I would say is argueable. I don't see lions eating massive quantities of gazell to the point of extinction. They eat what they need and stop. We don't. We're a virus of consumption plain and simple. I would say it is a change in the way we think. You've already said the other guys house is bigger and the first guy isn't happy about it. That's ego (selfishness to some extent) and if the second guy loses his ego then it's not a problem. But ego comes up and that's the end of the discussion.

@Thai: all you've done is insult once again. Alluding to the notion that my admittedly fantasized theory does not suit your direct needs based on your current experiences and therefore is tossed aside as not practical. Your ego is clouding your mind plain and simple. You want more more more and are willing to get it at all costs. I'm envious of you in the way you can block off all creative ideals that don't direct align with your own motives. And I mean that.
 
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I agree with all the disagreements. It is an absolute excersise in imagination. It's just sad that so many see it as intangible. Living within one's means and being satisfied with some amount of "enough" isn't enough. It scares people to try something different.

The hard wired aspect I would say is argueable. I don't see lions eating massive quantities of gazell to the point of extinction. They eat what they need and stop. We don't. We're a virus of consumption plain and simple. I would say it is a change in the way we think. You've already said the other guys house is bigger and the first guy isn't happy about it. That's ego (selfishness to some extent) and if the second guy loses his ego then it's not a problem. But ego comes up and that's the end of the discussion.

@Thai: all you've done is insult once again. Alluding to the notion that my admittedly fantasized theory does not suit your direct needs based on your current experiences and therefore is tossed aside as not practical. Your ego is clouding your mind plain and simple. You want more more more and are willing to get it at all costs. I'm envious of you in the way you can block off all creative ideals that don't direct align with your own motives. And I mean that.

If you want to put a cap on my salary, I will work the exact amount I need to earn that salary and then I will go home. I will not work for your perfect society. Whether there is work to do or not, I would come in at 9 AM, take a two hour lunch, and go home at five. No evenings no weekends. Two month vacation, everybody takes it during the busiest summer season. Everything shuts down.

If you expect me to work for free, I’ll just take my social welfare and go on vacation year round while you do whatever it is that you so much love doing.
 
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I've been to cuba many times, so many times that I'm barred from getting a sentry pass. lol.

Those that believe a pure socialist/communist/marxist government is better than capitalism needs to get a clue. One visit to cuba will give you that clue.

Unless you are connected to the govenment, you will be born poor, you will live poor, and you will die poor if you stay in cuba. You will own nothing, you will experience nothing outside of cuba. Your present life will be as worthless as your future prospects. The generations after you, will have the same fate.

To those that think you can control greed by implementing socialist/communist policies...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA...... In cuba there are two classes, the poor (which is everyone) and the rich (government connected officials). Its so bad, if you owned a audi, you were considered untouchable. You literally don't have to wait at intersections, you can park whereever you want, nobody dared to even stop you. All businesses (like nightclubs, restaurants) that didn't operate officially by the cuban government, were owned by cuban officials.... Most people end up taking the bus, not because they want to, its because they HAVE to.

You don't own your home. The government provided you a place to live. You didn't live alone. You had to share your home with either other families, or other family members (uncles, grandparents, etc). You weren't allowed to sell your place for money, but u could "trade places".

Racism still exists, if you looked black, you were treated below human, and you got the worst of everything (some houses had no roof or windows), and nobody would hire you (I mean nobody).

Cuban peso is worthless. Cuban banks would have lines around the building and would run out of money before noon b/c nobody wanted to hold cuban peso's..... When you got paid, you change it to euros, francs, canadian dollars, and if you are connected, US currency.

You want to know what you get to eat if you are cuban? powdered milk, ham, and bread. Literally, that was the cuban ration. You can buy fish, veggies, and fruits for cheap on the "open air markets", but you couldn't buy any "processed products" because they don't exist due to cuban embargo (unless you are connected or a tourist). Sure you can buy that on the black market or at hotels. Cubans were paid the equivalent of 15 US dollars A MONTH. When I go to cuba, I would hire a local w/ a car for 25 a day, and he would be at my beckoning call 24 hours/day...

Everybody got paid, even when you don't work....so basically nobody works. Everybody hangs out at home. There are doctors and teachers, but they still get paid the same. Only reason you became a teacher or doctor, was to travel outside of the country.

While I love visiting cuba because once they find out you are american, you will be treated like a celebrity (everyone's dream in cuba is to meet/marry a US citizen). I mean like a rock star. Girls would proposition me every where I go (I'm not talking about prostitutes), I would never have to wait in line. At the night clubs, I got my own security detail leaving and entering the nightclubs because you will get mobbed outside (by everyone). It was VIP eveywhere you go, and for any ordinary cubans seen with you.

I would still NEVER want to live there. I would NEVER want the US to become like CUBA.

So those who think socialism is the answer to capitalism's problem, need to get a clue. There will be no middle class. There will be only a two tier class system, the government (rich) and everyone else (poor), and guess what, you won't be part of the rich class, not one single chance.

I don't want to be born only to make babies, and then die..... thats cuba.

You guys want to visit cuba:

1. park car at US side of TJ airport
2. walk across border bridge from US to TJ airport
3. Hop on plane to Mexico city
4. Buy ticket to CUBA

thats how easy it is. It is not illegal to travel to cuba as a individual through 3rd countries, but the US will punish you if you get caught by revoking your right to have special travel preveleges if you travel alot (like sentry pass).


SO go visit cuba if you think your liberal arts professor or the ultra left are telling you the truth.
 
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Alright I'll bite.


1) the world's population is too high. There is a sweet spot of people this planet can habitat comfortably based on our levels of consumption and we've passed it. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but I'm fairly certain we've more than doubled it. (This goes beyond greenhouse gasses and fossil fuels, and has more to do with land/area and levels of sanitation etc) So for this imaginary example, the Earth has a significantly lower population.


well the new fed tax plan for me is a win. been years since I could get a few bucks extra from the itemized deductions. I believe it gained about $75... not really worth going thru all that paper work.

this plan for me is about $1500 less fed taxes..
since I do not live in CALI the highest State taxes in the world , [bloomberg] does look very good to me here in the cold north east..

so most likely 10 years from now this tax plan will be extended for individuals ..

My senator balloon head ED MARKEY only focuses on climate change. this senator wants to tax energy to the max so as in his mind , reduce climate change. So I do not agree with this plan because , what will happen is working people will not go to work . gas will cost $10 a gallon and they will make not much at the end of the day . so more on welfare and more increases in the population .

the world is with too many people , that is why we have the high CO2 levels . this gas now too high is damaging the oceans .. to solve this IMO develop CO2 devices that absorb this gas in areas if high CO2 generation . places like cali .. lots of smoke ,pot smoking , burning hills and cars stuck in traffic all day long.

we just went thru the coldest continuous weather event in 100 years ..
most people here want now a warming of the planet ...

I plan on gong to the warm south next week .. too damn cold for me..

was -12 F ..vehicles also don't like that.
 
I've been to cuba many times, so many times that I'm barred from getting a sentry pass. lol.

I was gonna type a lengthy response comparing 4Reak's Utopia to Marx's Communist Manifesto but your post pretty much captures everything perfectly.
 
I agree with all the disagreements. It is an absolute excersise in imagination. It's just sad that so many see it as intangible. Living within one's means and being satisfied with some amount of "enough" isn't enough. It scares people to try something different.

The hard wired aspect I would say is argueable. I don't see lions eating massive quantities of gazell to the point of extinction. They eat what they need and stop. We don't. We're a virus of consumption plain and simple. I would say it is a change in the way we think. You've already said the other guys house is bigger and the first guy isn't happy about it. That's ego (selfishness to some extent) and if the second guy loses his ego then it's not a problem. But ego comes up and that's the end of the discussion.

@Thai: all you've done is insult once again. Alluding to the notion that my admittedly fantasized theory does not suit your direct needs based on your current experiences and therefore is tossed aside as not practical. Your ego is clouding your mind plain and simple. You want more more more and are willing to get it at all costs. I'm envious of you in the way you can block off all creative ideals that don't direct align with your own motives. And I mean that.

The difference is that some of us (e.g. myself) have lived in your “utopia” (aka communism/socialism)!! My parents had to fight for pieces of bread everyday to feed family in your “utopia”.

This is what happens when spoiled brats (or society losers) like you start to think too much...and think that their “new thinking” is so damn magical....oh, wait, “creative” as you so put it. Your idea is not creative. It is idiotic and downright plagiarism! I am not sure what education level you have, but there is not an ounce of creativity in what you wrote. It is foolish way of thinking...and people like you is what is destroying way of life with all the damn unicorns!

It is not about ego...you don’t even know what the hell that means!!! Stop using it!

Maybe if you put all that energy into something more realistic, then maybe society will respect you and your way of thinking. And just maybe you are less angry at what society has given you back.

But yeah, what you wrote is pure trash. Sorry. :cheers:
 

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