Head gasket blown, bad cat, etc.,etc...

[AlexaG.]

I am so tired

I am so tired of trying to right wrongs. I did contact the previous owner and he played dumb. My issue is with the mechanic that inspected the vehicle and gave it a clean bill of health. However, he told me at the point of inspection that I needed a serpentine belt and brake pads and rear rotors. All false information. I took it to get new tires and my pads were brand new and my rotors were able to be machined. In addition, my serpentine belt needed to be replaced. Now, I payed this guy $100 dollars to inspect the vehicle. I asked if he was ASE certified and he reassured me "they were better than ASE". Do I have any recourse with this douche bag mechanic that tried to rip me off with the brake job and belt? Also, same said douche replaced coil pack #5 twice. M effer!

 

[AlexaG.]

Sorry.

Sorry. I actually did not need a serpentine belt as he said I did.

 

[AlexaG.]

I am prepared to sue the mechanic that inspected it 30 days ago. My first instinct is to get a lawyer because he tried to muscle me into unnecessary repairs. Also, he overlooked obvious repairs that are in the hundreds to fix. In addition, overlooking the gasket issue.

 

[NJshadow93]

Sorry you have to go through this. This is a buyer's worst nightmare. If you can afford it, I would consider selling/trading it in for as much as you can and look for another 4Runner. If you're going to be out a few thousand dollars, at least put that toward a different truck that is much healthier (they're out there!) that you can enjoy without having the problems (fixed or not) looming over your head. You'll also be more educated about it, knowing what to look for, and taking it to be inspected by a different shop (I'd suggest a Toyota dealer).

 

[chmura]

Unfortunately getting an inspection does not mean the vehicle is 100% perfect. No mechanic can look inside the engine and tell you how the crankshaft bearings look like, how the cams look like under the valve cover (oil sludge from neglect), how the oil rings look like (engine burning excess oil), how well the values seat, etc.

There is always a risk when buying used, always. No matter if a mechanic gave it a clean bill of health or not.

That's why many many people do not buy used at all, they only buy new.

Call the previous mechanic that changed the coils and ask that mechanic if he knew about this head gasket problem. If so he certainly told the owner. You can sue the previous owner for this.

 

[bvc]

What about lemon laws? Would those apply here? I know they vary by state.

 

[AlexaG.]

The mechanic that changed the coils is the one that inspected the car.

 

[chmura]

What about lemon laws? Would those apply here? I know they vary by state.

Lemon law only applies to new vehicles and the first owner of the vehicle. Each state has their own guidelines.

 

[justinh]

The mechanic that changed the coils is the one that inspected the car.

I think that might be where you went wrong. I'm sure it seems obvious now but this mechanic and the previous owner clearly had some sort of business relationship. In my opinion, while he probably knew about the bad issues and SHOULD have been honest he may have down played them to keep the other guy's business for future repairs or they may even be friends.

I'd recommend finding a mechanic that you know and trust to have your best interest in mind.

In Georgia I don't really think there is a dang thing you can do to either one of them. Especially if the leak is as minor as you are now being told. Does his pre-purchase inspection come with any sort of guarantee or warranty to back it up? If not you basically just bought the guy's beer for the week.

It will never hurt to ask him and you may be able to guilt trip him into helping you out with discounted repairs, but do you honestly feel like you can trust him now?

 

[YotaDriver]

I think that might be where you went wrong. I'm sure it seems obvious now but this mechanic and the previous owner clearly had some sort of business relationship. In my opinion, while he probably knew about the bad issues and SHOULD have been honest he may have down played them to keep the other guy's business for future repairs or they may even be friends.

I think this is the problem. Sorry you're going through this, but it's car buying 101 to find a neutral third-party to do your pre-purchase inspection, not someone the seller has a standing relationship with. Still, even with that being said I think if you play your cards right you'll be able to get some satisfaction here, even if it means you end up having to sue them in small claims court - or regular court if it's over the threshold for small claims.

How much did you pay for the vehicle, and were any known mechanical deficiencies disclosed to you? When you learned the coils had been replaced, were you given an explanation as to why they'd been bad in the first place? Does the mechanic know or claim to know at this point? I'd gather as much info as possible in as polite and non-threatening a way as possible (they probably won't be that forthcoming since they'll figure out quickly what you're up to) before going scorched earth on their asses.

Bluff, trash them on Yelp, go to the BBB, write blog posts about them, write letters to the editor: in short, anything and everything you can do to destroy their brand, their names, and their reputations. Hope they make you an offer to settle, and if not, sue the shit out of them for fraud.

Buying a car is no small deal, and to knowingly (which they did, any claims to the contrary are complete bull) pawn a lemon off on someone isn't that far - morally, at least - from outright theft in my opinion.

 

[Lyric]

I have been following this thread and I have to say I feel terribly bad for you and what you are going through. My first two vehicles I purchased were with issues but the two mechanics I took the two vehicles to were good friends with the sellers. I would assume the two mechanics gave me the thumbs up to keep business with the two car dealers. Later down the road I learned a lot of the small to medium size car lots in my area took their vehicles to these two mechanics. So basically they brought each other business and fooled the buyers.

When I bought my first two vehicles that were sold to me with issues I was really young and had no experience with automobiles or anything about them. All I knew is I was in some deep trouble and needed out. The first car dealer offered to take the car back and allow me to trade it for another model but I refused as I was scared I would get something worse. So with the first vehicle I traded it to another car dealer in town and happened to be I get another vehicle with issues a couple weeks down the road. With the second vehicle I knew I did not want to shop at small dealerships anymore and refused to buy a personal sale so I went to a Toyota dealership to buy. Now just because I went to a Toyota dealership this time does not mean I have been issue free. My real main issues this time around was under carrage rust and a rust spot on the lift gate at the top. But other than that everything was perfect.

When I traded the second car in I let Toyota know it had issues and what was wrong with it because I did not want someone being stuck with my problems and wanted to be upfront and honest. A dealership like Toyota has more money to put into repairs on vehicles more than myself, another buyer or a small dealership.

Now I am not saying to go to every dealership and tell them your issues because they may frown and turn you down but I just could not be honest myself.

1st: 1998 Inifiniti QX4 - Transmission slipping
2nd: 2002 Land Rover Discovery 2 - Blown Head Gasket and warped head - Overheated

I have to agree with what some of the guys have said on here about it sounding like a head gasket. This is exactly what my Land Rover did and what a terrible mess this was.

If I were you I would just swallow it down and trade it. Trade it for like a year or two newer or if you want to stay with the same year get a V8 or V6 whichever your 4Runner is not. Find a reason for a trade.

Otherwise if your tradding:

2004
4Runner
SR5
V6
4x4
Mica Grey
140,000

FOR A:

2004
4Runner
SR5
V6
4x4
Mica Grey
140,000

than they might start questioning more or get a funny feeling and back out.


Again I am sorry you are going through this and I know how you feel. It can be stressful and hard. But best to get out now and let it go. And stick with big dealerships. Never use a mechanic to do a inspection on your vehicle that did the work on the vehicle for the previous owner. As someone pointed out he wants business from the other guy still so he tells you whatever. If a dealer offers his own mechanic or a personal sale uses a certain mechanic never take the vehicle to them. Search online or talk to others for a reputable mechanic.

BTW I would not do an engine swap unless you have a friend who is willing to do the work for a good price. Otherwise this is going to cost you big time. I would rather try replacing the head gaskets before that. But even that I wouldn't do, just trade. Start fresh and get what you deserve.

Hope this works out and best of luck.

 

[zonianbrat]

I truly feel for you. Did you get a bill of sale? I know from experience that most bills of sale state the vehicle is sold as is. That might come back to haunt you if indeed you signed one. You could try to trade it off like Lyric said but if you have CEL's or stored codes it could get tough. I am not trying to be negative so please dont take it that way. I have just been in a somewhat similar situation before and I know it sucks. If the rest of the truck is in great shape I would just drop another motor in it lick your wounds and know you will have a dependable vehicle for a long time. Best of luck and let us know what happens.

 

[AlexaG.]

Status update

Hi there guys. Thanks again for all of your advice and also your kind words that have made me feel better.
As it stands, I am having to replace both cats because I drove on it misfiring for a week. I was told by Kaufmann Tire that it was completely fine to drive like that. I asked on three separate occasions and they reassured me that only thing that would happen is that by gas mileage would go in the gutter. WRONG! I murdered my catalytic converters. However, after going rounds with the regional manager of Kaufmann, he agreed to pay for half of the repair. The estimate for two converters is $2700. WHAT? Ridiculous! However, I have a guy that has his own little side mechanic business. He is going to replace the cats and O2 sensors for parts plus a little labor. He gets a discount at Toyota so that's even better. I still will have the issue of the leaking gasket but that is getting a sealant today. I am hopeful that will take care of the problem (temporarily). After all this is done, I will have to decide if I want to keep the car or trade it in. I paid $8k for it. Not a terrible price. If I can recover a good portion of it, I would be happy. I just put $1000 in brakes and tires as well.
I feel like I did everything I was supposed to do in regards to buying a used vehicle. I Carfaxed it. I made sure it wasn't from "up north" or a flood car from Alabama, Louisiana, etc. I paid for a thorough inspection. Maybe that is where I should have tried to go to a bigger outfit. However, time and geography was not on my side. I was in an area that wasn't conducive to taking it to a chain or a dealer. I really wanted to though. This way, I would have a little more success in getting the head gasket issue resolved. After getting my cats fixed, I definitely am going to try to get some satisfaction. Right now, I am just consumed with all of these other issues. Aargh! Hard to wrap my brain around. Thanks again everyone. Keep your thoughts and opinions coming! They have been so helpful!

 

[TRDCal]

I am prepared to sue the mechanic that inspected it 30 days ago. My first instinct is to get a lawyer because he tried to muscle me into unnecessary repairs.

Because that's the answer to all life's problems...sue the bastards!

 

[zonianbrat]

So how long did you drive with a missfire? Can someone tell me why these cats are so expensive and yet apparently so delicate? Is there an aftermarket choice? Alexa G. do you have emmissions test where you live? If not I'd say delete them somehow and run it. Can anybody else chime in if it is possible?

 

[chmura]

Cats are expensive because there are precious metals inside. They are even more expensive from the Dealer because they are designed to last a very long time mandated by the government. So the quality on an OEM cat is much better than an aftermarket cat.

To the OP if you do replace your cats make sure you take them with you. There are many scrap yards that will pay you a a hundred or so for your used cats. So please make sure you do not let your mechanic keep your old cats! He will have a little bonus if you do.

I still have a hard time believing your cats are bad due to misfiring. Please check the Air/fuel ratio sensor and O2 sensors first because you change out the cats.

My coworker had a bad air/fuel ratio sensor in his Corolla. The sensor before the cat. He was running VERY rich (excess fuel being delivered to the combustion chamber). His car was white and his bumper near the exhaust was BLACK, looked like an old diesel vehicle from the back. He was driving like that for months with a check engine light.

He changed the air/fuel sensor and everything is okay. His cats are fine and no check engine light.

So I have a very hard time believing your cats are bad due to excess fuel.

Please replace/diagnose the sensors first.

 

[Lyric]

So how long did you drive with a missfire? Can someone tell me why these cats are so expensive and yet apparently so delicate? Is there an aftermarket choice? Alexa G. do you have emmissions test where you live? If not I'd say delete them somehow and run it. Can anybody else chime in if it is possible?

I'd like to know why they are so expensive on the 4Runner as well. I was looking into them one day just because I was looking at what future parts might cost and I was a little shocked. I know other vehicles I have owned the catalytic converters never cost this amount. I would like to know the answer as well. I know when I replaced my cats in my Land Rover they were not this expensive and this is a Land Rover I had. So cats for a 4Runner costing more is what get's me. I know cats contain platinum which is what most people who steal them steal them for but still the 4Runner or Toyota's cats seem to cost more than most. - I don't get this. Now I lost my cats to my Land Rover due to misfire issues which eventually killed the cats. And yes, keep your cats and call or visit a few scrap yards for prices on your old cats. Of course keep your bill of sale and your bill for repair so you are able to proof they are yours and came off your vehicle. People steal these like crazy and most places will check or want to check they belong to you.

 

[AlexaG.]

Yes, here in Georgia we have to pass emissions which for me is in two weeks on my birthday. Happy birthday to me, huh?
Apparently, aftermarket cats are junk and don't last so I have been advised that Toyota cats are the best option.
Thanks Chmura for the good advice. The first estimate I received said I only needed the left cat. If in fact, the O2 sensors don't remedy the problem would I have to replace both cats as the second shop's estimate recommended?

 

[chmura]

Yes, here in Georgia we have to pass emissions which for me is in two weeks on my birthday. Happy birthday to me, huh?
Apparently, aftermarket cats are junk and don't last so I have been advised that Toyota cats are the best option.
Thanks Chmura for the good advice. The first estimate I received said I only needed the left cat. If in fact, the O2 sensors don't remedy the problem would I have to replace both cats as the second shop's estimate recommended?

It could be a possibility that an 02 can remedy the problem. You need a good scan tool to determine if the 02 sensor is working properly. You need to plot a volts vs time graph on the reader and see if it is oscillating properly on the graph.

I believe there are a total of 4 cats on the 4runner. 2 on each bank. 1 set of primary cats and the other set are secondary cats behind the primaries which are not monitored by 02 sensors.

 

[zonianbrat]

Yes, here in Georgia we have to pass emissions which for me is in two weeks on my birthday. Happy birthday to me, huh?
Apparently, aftermarket cats are junk and don't last so I have been advised that Toyota cats are the best option.
Thanks Chmura for the good advice. The first estimate I received said I only needed the left cat. If in fact, the O2 sensors don't remedy the problem would I have to replace both cats as the second shop's estimate recommended?

I'd try to determine if in fact it is a bad sensor or actually bad cats. Then if it is indeed the cats I would still go aftermarket if it is a big enough savings. The amount they want for t4r cats is just dumb. Platinum or not I doubt they have enough platinum to make them worth thousands..