HELP ME MY ABS AlMOST KILLED ME.

[Kung]

you do know that the purpose of ABS is to keep you straight when stopping, and not to make you stop sooner, right? Actually, the opposite is true. When ABS is used, stopping distance actually increases.

This. I know how to drive in snow very well; I'm originally from Chicago, so snow is definitely no stranger to me.

About 2 years ago I was coming over a hill at about 40 mph (in a 55mph zone) and in the middle of snow and ice encountered a schoolbus stopped in the middle of the street because they were afraid to go into a subdivision and let the kids off.

So she let the kids off right THERE...and here I come rolling over the hill at 40mph, with almost no way to stop. Let me tell you, visions of bowling-pin kids flying every raced through my head.

So I immediately jam on the brakes; ABS kicks in. I pumped the brakes and it's not stopping me fast enough - it was that slippery. So while I'm jamming my foot on the brake again, enabling ABS, cursing it all the while, I managed to steer through the intersection, avoiding everything by a wide berth.

It was only about a day later that it hit me that the ABS did EXACTLY what it was designed to do; if ABS does not kick in and the driver is not skilled (and let's face it - most are not), you're going too fast for conditions AND you can't steer.

IF, however, you're not all that skilled but you CAN steer, while you may be going too fast for conditions, you WILL have a chance to steer out of the way of danger.

People here are complaining about how much ABS sucks, but almost EVERYONE griping about ABS here shares one of two things:

- they use their 4Runners in decidedly non-standard applications, or
- they are SKILLED drivers.

The thing is....ABS is NOT designed for the above; it's designed to return some semblance of maneuverability to your standard driver who will unthinkingly jam on the brakes in a dangerous event, and not let up regardless of the situation

 

[morbis]

Got a new-to-me 4runner a month ago. Took it up to the snow for the first time this weekend. I can't pull the ABS fuse fast enough.

Not trying to argue about the merits of a good ABS system in dry or wet roads. Snow driving (much like dirt) is a whole different animal. Even well functioning ABS systems can take longer to stop in snow depending on the traction situation. Having small piles of snow build up in front of the wheels (sliding) can help a vehicle slow down much quicker compared to an ABS system that prevents even momentary wheel lockup.

There is no argument that driving a non-ABS equipped vehicle is a more involved process that requires higher levels of concentration and awareness. If I spent 90% of my time commuting through Boston I would certainly leave my ABS engaged and call it a day. However, the trade off balance changes when you're dealing with twisty un-plowed mountain roads.

 

[techno]

you do know that the purpose of ABS is to keep you straight when stopping, and not to make you stop sooner, right? Actually, the opposite is true. When ABS is used, stopping distance actually increases.

I think you need to clarify your statement.
It actually decreases stopping distance on all surfaces except gravel, and gives you the ability to steer under maximum braking. Don't forget, to stop, you need traction, and if you are skidding then you have almost no traction.

 

[thor999]

You guys will like this: went to Discount Tire to get my MTR's, guy says we're out of stock but they have them at this other (close) location. So, as I'm pulling out of the parking lot, going VERY slow, it kind of goes downhill and I hit a very short build up of ice and snow. The brakes SIMPLY do not work at all and put me right in the path of a city bus barreling down at me doing about 40mph. I was literally doing less than 5mph and this freaking thing almost killed me. I could see the driver look at his rear view and he simply cut into the other lane to avoid me, but if there was someone in that other lane I would probably be dead. SO to summarize, if someone could locate these sensors and give us a few pics so we can fix the issue, it would more than likely save lives at this point!!! I don't know what they look like, so there is no way I could fix / repair them...
edit: that bus missed me by INCHES

 

[viapol]

NO NO NO!!!! "Dont disable the ABS on your 96-98 4runner!!!! The system is designed to HELP you and you could be fined or sent to Turkish prison for killing someone when you knowingly and willifully disable a Safety feature"...BULLPUCKY. THIS SYSTEM IS ABSOLUTE CRAP on snow and ice. IF you have a 96-98 runner AND you have driven in icy conditions AND you know how to drive, you would know this to be true. Disable that crap. ITS DOWNRIGHT Dangerous. BTW, Ive never had an accident ever in my 20 years of driving in the snow and ice.. I almost had an accident the first week of owning my 4runner in a normally easy braking manuever on ice. I was instantly like WTF is this!!!????? Oh, i've owned and driven many vehicles with ABS and not had a problem. This one was scary. Whats safer on Ice? A CHANCE (DISABLE 96-98 4runner ABS) at stopping and avoiding an accident or NO CHANCE (Leaving it enable 96-98 4runner) at stopping and killing someone else or yourself?

 

[cobiker]

Just an update on my ABS debacles.

As posted above, I pulled the fuse on my ABS and had been happy, except for one sort of inattentive moment where I jammed on the brakes too hard on a wet blacktop and a momentary fishtail occurred. Otherwise, OK.

I changed brake pads and 1 front rotor (which was a bit thin), and for the heck of it, reinstalled the ABS fuse. While the wheels were off I also took a look at, and wiped off the ABS sensors.

Lo and behold, no more ABS woes,... so far. 2 months now and the ABS is not acting up. I havent had a chance to test it in a real world emergency, but at least in pulling out driveways, and short slow speed stops, I have no shuddering, no intermittent ABS light flashing, no pedal diving and no loss of stopping power.

My only advice from the experience - Check your brake pads, rebleed, and clean your sensors from time to time.

Hope this lasts.

 

[thor999]

Post some pics! I WANT to clean them, but I have no idea what they look like!!!

 

[kball]

Cobiker, have you actually caused the ABS to activate yet? Go find some slippery ground and slam the brakes and see if they act any different then.

 

[S Brake]

I've read a few places that say pressing the RR diff lock button disengages the ABS. For me, this is only true in 4 lo when the locker itself is engaged. If I'm in 4hi or 2wd and I press the locker button, nothing happens. Is this how it is supposed to behave?

 

[blcktpgsr]

I've read a few places that say pressing the RR diff lock button disengages the ABS. For me, this is only true in 4 lo when the locker itself is engaged. If I'm in 4hi or 2wd and I press the locker button, nothing happens. Is this how it is supposed to behave?

Yeah it's supposed to be like that...unless you wanna be able to use the locker in either 2H/4H..do the grey or blue wire mod, then ABS would be disabled on those modes as well.

 

[cobiker]

[MENTION=54665]THOR[/MENTION]- ill take pics and post some soon.
[MENTION=44978]kball[/MENTION] - good suggestion, will definitely try that out soon too

 

[shadow247]

Cleaning the ABS sensors is quick and easy. Over time junk builds up in there, and as they are magnets, they can pick up metal dust from the brake rotors. I messed up one on my Chevy pickup by grinding off the rivets for the UBJ, sending sparks straight at the sensor. When I pulled it off it was absolutely covered in metal shavings. I tried to clean it off but had no luck. Ended up having to replace it and all was good.

 

[theizzardking]

has anybody ditched the whole ABS module under the hood? i was thinking of ditching that and the cruise control to gain more room for cool electronics and such, i'm really up against the wall in terms of engine compartment space and that would make it a dream in there, but i don't know if it's worth it, what all is involved with killing the whole system?

 

[brian2sun]

has anybody ditched the whole ABS module under the hood? i was thinking of ditching that and the cruise control to gain more room for cool electronics and such, i'm really up against the wall in terms of engine compartment space and that would make it a dream in there, but i don't know if it's worth it, what all is involved with killing the whole system?

Driffter33 ditched his ABS module because he did a disc conversion in the back. He could explain what you need to do if you ask him. I've thought about that too, just never got around to it yet. I'd like to mount an air comp in that area.

 

[SilentYoda3]

When i first read through all of these post i must say i was scared that my abs in my newly purchased 97 would kill me. Having not had a vehicle of my own that had abs i wasn't sure how to work with it. Well today we have about 4 inches of new snow so i got to test it out. Works as it seems intended, if i jab the breaks hard it kicks in, if i let off and lightly re-apply the truck stops like a dream. That and the fact im not trying to drive 55mph and then stop immediately helps a ton too. Just some food for thought from others who read this, cleaning the sensors off could help too.

 

[cobiker]

Location of ABS sensor in the front:

in the back:

Its held in by one bolt, and may take some coaxing with a flathead screwdriver to remove. Be careful not to gouge the seal surface though. I just wiped off the sensor itself, which wasnt particularly dirty - just a layer of dirty oil. While off I peeked into the hole (to see that the rotor was in view), and reinstalled. I really took time with the first one (maybe 15 minutes), but you could do all four in that same time (if you already have all the wheels off and the truck on jack stands that is).

 

[JayBluShu]

So what initially causes the ABS to engage? One of the four tires to start spinning?

 

[slayman]

Lousy ABS

The ABS in my 99 Highlander sucks. I have had it act up in gravel and dirt and over severe bumps but today in the snow it was pathetic. Today I slowed down way more than necessary coming up to a stop sign and it still chattered its way through the intersection. I'm 50 so it's not like I don't know how to drive in snow. I've been driving RWD/FWD/4WD abs and non-abs vehicles in the snow for years. My 97 Passat was worse but not much. My tires are new. Anybody have a link to the switch mod thread?

 

[Robb235]

Wow, so glad I found this thread. When I was in Columbia, SC, I would drive over a perticular set of train tracks everyday, and the ABS would go nuts since I was also braking slightly. I thought it was weird that the ABS had such a harsh reaction to something so insignificant. Now I know why. Btw, I put Tundra 231mm brakes on my '99 Limited as soon as I got it. Do those with the upgrade have better/worse/same experiences with ABS?

I did recently have an emergency stop on the interstate (dry conditions). I stood on the brake pedal HARD (couldn't switch lanes), and I don't think ABS ever activated. If it did, I never felt it in the pedal.

The ABS in my '95 Monte Carlo was awesome. Even in icy and snowy conditions, the ABS never scared me when it activated. I never had a chance to try my '97 T4R in snow, and I haven't done it in my '99 yet.

 

[Canuckrz]

My 4runner has done this to me several times. Intersection is 200ft away coming in at about 40kmph start to slow down, one of the tires touches ice and the demonically shitty abs kicks in relieving me of any standard stopping power. By the busy intersection I'm still going about 10-15kmph so I had to put it into a conveniently placed 3ft snow bank beside the merge lane. Unfortunately because 2wd with open differential this was enough to get me stuck because the drivers tire not in the snow bank was on the slippery road. So I had to dig it out a trench and get a couple people to help me push it out.

Similar situation once again, coming upto a red light with a freight liner waiting in front, abs trips again, no stopping ability. Luckily there wasn't many people on the road so I turned into the right turn lane to have the extra distance for it to slow down on its own.

Its gotten to the point where now if the roads arent perfectly clear I have to drive at a speed that I have enough room to coast to a stop if I have to around intersections for concern of the ABS trying to play 4runner curling with me into the intersection.
/rant


So I was thinking, is there anyway to actually fix the abs in these trucks so it either takes alot more to trip it, or change the way the actuator actually sends power to the brakes so its actually more useful than "naw man, you need to slow down, you need to turn".

I'm not overly familiar with the electrical involved in detection and how much input the abs ecu has on how the actuator decides to work, but maybe there are some signals that can be modified with resistors or so fourth so that one can tune the effect of the abs so its actually usable.

I'd just disable the abs but like a lot of others have mentioned I don't want to be at fault if an accident occurs (as bullshit as that law is). And I let my buddy use the truck from time to time and to be honest I don't trust him driving it with the possibility of him panic braking and locking up all four wheels and going for a spin.